[Demon Slayer] Doma's Physicals

[CloverDragon03]

Gotcha. I’d like for them to bring forward the contradiction, then. If it’s true, then yeah, axe the multiplier

 

[Livinmeme]

Btw this mat be affected but if multiplier and rengoku stuff will be used here the tons scaling

Spin off rengoku, lower moon 2, enmu and up = 0.358 tons

Those 100x above district base Tanjiro = 35.8 tons

Zohakuten and up = 143.2 tons

the downgrade thread becomes an upgrade thread

More likelly than you think

 

[KingTempest]

Just before anyone says we should or should not implement it I figure I should submit the scans for the context around the '100x amp'

So, he's saying "I need to summon forth 100 times the power" while trying to pump himself up by using a full body swing rather than just his normal arm strength it's a principle in kenjutsu and many other sword styles from the real world as it should be obvious swinging with your arms vs putting your body into it result in a drastically different amount of power and feeling with the weapon. And I do think removing the statistics amp for characters would be justifiable as

Tanjiro even says it was the way he used his strength not that his strength was increased which keeps with the kenjutsu aspect I mentioned before,

during the debriefing in chapters 128 and the beginning of 129 no mention of it being a multiplier or becoming stronger is mentioned, they just mention repeatedly that they are on the 'cusp of death' with body temperature of 39 C 200+ BPM which just sits 2C above normal and 20 bpm (beats per minute) above of boxing averages for one bout (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8543363/#:~:text=The training requirements of the,total duration of one bout. just in case the link fails me I also just wanted to link biology on this cause it's fun lol) but even looking at the temperature and BPM increase I don't think it warrants a statistics amplification given it is more a byproduct of using it, the Demon Slayer Mark seems to resemble a sort of physical manifestation of hysterical strength, of which medical science has no knowledge of how much it actually increases strength as well as different people achieving different levels of power off of hysterical strength in the real world.
For a secondary position on what the Demon Slayer Mark is, I would argue the DSM is akin to the flow state as there is a large amount of thought going into the user's mind focusing on everything, breathing sensation the application of force etc. Later we see a lot about gripping the sword like a vice to make it red but I believe that is more due to the mysterious natures of the Nichirin swords and the DSM and we see it was just theorized you have to grip it really hard, but when the sword is activated with Iguro he theorized it was putting yourself on the cusp of death to make your grip vise like, rather than saying you needed to actually strengthen your grip that much...

To conclude, the Slayer Mark does not warrant a statistics amp on the pages for Demon Slayer and should not be used for AP calcs as mentioned above. (I figure bringing scans just in case someone has an issue with this stuff would be ideal for everyone involved)
I for one agree with the calc brought up here by user chosen, as there really does not seem to be a lot of consistent evidence to the previously accepted 8-B / 8-A. The wooden dragons in the calc here mention being around 9-A+ for the individual segments as per the Attack Potency page: "The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack." meaning there is a justifiable reason to say it should only account for the individual dragon's value not the entirety of it as he could just use more of them consecutively rather than all at once.

(Sorry for the insane wall of text I just want to be accurate with these sorts of things)
(Edit: SunDaGamer also brought up good stuff for 8-C from Rengoku and that's fine too though the wooden dragons might also be another creation feat of sorts just to add onto that)

The Slayer Mark is noted to boost speed and Tanjiro couldn't cut through Gyutaro's neck beforehand while Gyutaro was poisoned so while I do think the Slayer Mark is a stat amp, I don't think there's enough evidence to warrant giving it a x100 multiplier either since Tanjiro's statement seems like a hyperbole (in a similar vein to Deku shouting "One For All 1,000,000%") and I'm not aware of any other source that supports a x100 amp, I don't think the Official Fanbook confirms it either.

It looks like 3 Wooden Dragons were involved in the feat but I'm not sure if we can scale Zohakuten to their combined output (the dragons's feat is purely physical unlike Doma's which uses temperature change and requires an energy system to scale to physicals)

 

[Passersby]

just going to randomly quote myself first

it's a random mark that makes you die at 25 while giving you a strenght boost, the way he used his strenght really doesnt' matter when with the way shearing mechanics work, his sword was able to cut through a significantly larger surface area which would have resulted in a proportionate increase to shear force compared to his earlier strike, since the former is measured as F/A, in order to overcome the shaer stenght of gyutaro's neck he would need to apply a sufficient force over that area to match or exceed the shear strength with shear stress. for exmple If you cut an area A1 with minimum force F1, then to cut an area A2, you would need minimum force F2 = A2 * F1 / A1, because F2 / A2 = F1 / A1 = shear strength. If A2 is larger than A1, then F2 is larger than F1, his strike while unclocking the slayer is several orders of magnitudes higher than what it is without it considering he couldn't shear even a single inch into gyutaro even when the latter was poisoned weakened and paralyzed

the same thing happened with muichiro where before he could his sword a few cms into gyokko's neck and after unlocking the mark he could cut it like a hot knife butter, to deny the stats amplification is a bit silly, it has has nothing to do with biology, it's literally just magic

like the fake ranbow form ig

if tanjiro for example was only able to cut trough, say, 1cm^2 while putting in maximum effort, then unlocks the mark, and shears trough 100cm^2 of the same material, that would be about 100 times more force than his previous strike, and that's without even considering that the distance of applied force would be multiple times longer, so the energy needed to do that is the force x the distance of applied force, aka several orders of magnitudes worth
how strong gyutaro is really doesn't matter (tanjiro objectively failed to shear trough even an inch of his neck), it's the material physcis at play here

and then deal with the rest, which really isn't much

So, he's saying "I need to summon forth 100 times the power" while trying to pump himself up by using a full body swing rather than just his normal arm strength it's a principle in kenjutsu and many other sword styles from the real world as it should be obvious swinging with your arms vs putting your body into it result in a drastically different amount of power and feeling with the weapon

drastically isn't gonna cut it (literally) when we're talking a difference in cutting power several orders of magnitudes higher needed here, changing your position and how you swing your sword ain't gonna give you that

Tanjiro even says it was the way he used his strength not that his strength was increased which keeps with the kenjutsu aspect I mentioned before

he also mentions his breathing (which we know is bullshit anime powers) and his forhead (where the mark appears, which is also just magic), either ways this nothing really ig

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

idk if it's on purpose or not, but you left this one out

No, that was an oops on my behalf and comes down to the idea of do we count the individual blades or the entirety of the release which fair enough, both can be viewed as fair game depending on the character. Which compounds with this next part

so he scales to the destruction that they caused

In AP perhaps but even if we say it does go for AP that does not mean he inherently scales to them for durability. After all BDA's alter the blood in a supernatural way but we never really get a confirmation for the process that follows. So, if we do not know how he or almost any Demon uses BDA to achieve these things outside of a vague supernatural method do they have to do it one by one, do they do it in bunches? Does it change from Demon to Demon? Moon vs Non-Moon, Upper vs Lower, 1 vs 6 etc... All of that ends up wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to the series, which I feel we shouldn't do and we should be more scrutinous with series with UES or what we assume is one in a series which we've seen recently becoming known other series (JJK for example) have been abusing that idea with the people who scale it on the site.. off-site too. (Looks like this was addressed)

tanjiro objectively failed

Yeah, I don't disagree but I feel the metal and his neck did not just magically alter so I do see where you are coming from that if someone couldn't shear beforehand then could afterwards they had to have some increase in force, my big issue is the 100x specifically, it could be 3x or 5000x for all I can tell but it does not really give a solid level to the boost and I think the 100x should be removed off of Tanjiro's page given as I think SunDaGamer said, it is like Deku's 1million percent punch. If it is I re-read demon slayer recently so I might still be missing things but yes, no issue with Tanjiro getting stronger after re-reading I just do not think it is quantifiable as it sits is all hence, we should find a value for these guys. As it could be better mind body connection, an actual amp, or other things I think it is currently just too ambiguous to say 'Tanjiro said 100x therefore it is clearly 100x as a stat amp' given Tanjiro does regularly tell himself to keep at it and push even further. The reason this is compounded with the UES and the blades is the matter of if it is not a UES then the ability should not scale to the user for normal AP or Durability... (this was also addressed it seems, sorry if it seems like I am dog piling but do be sure to let me know if I missed something)

what does UTS stand for?

Ultimate Tensile Strength, UTS is a measure of the load that can be applied to a material before it fails.

what are you even addressing in that post?

Nothing I misread it my bad I haven't been sat in front of my computer in a few days and should have gotten to replying to you more smoothly sorry Passerby.

thanks for not ignoring me lol, appreciate it

Of course, sorry I replied and missed a few of the points in my hurriedness. It's a genuine pleasure to read all this again and see where I get to improve.

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maybe i just lack context.

so, a similar thread as my own about the generation and origin point of the Wood Dragons. Yes, that is a fair point, I do not know where exactly the dragons start from, and I think people may have just assumed so for the calc. That is a valid point.

i'll have to ask

Rechecking the Rengoku feat I noticed that the explosives are mostly around him and there are several detonations, we could obviously run the calc, but it probably won't drop a whole tier worth of AP I think but I might be wrong. I don't think it hurts to do one's due diligence in regards like this. I've made several blunders myself before going back to re-read the series and we can all get / be better about these sorts of things after all.
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Several of the calcs are being granted as AP Durability and striking strength assuming UES based scaling from what I've seen, and I think this has been brought up. Which ... is one issue with the 100x stat amp, if they aren't sharing the durability to the attacks they make, then saying the slayers had to get 100x stronger from a singular statement is a jump in logic occurring due to the UES based scaling to equate them.

That said Hina.. a shinobi was able to land a kunai piercing Gyutaro and poison him, see chapter 89 and chapter 90 as far as I am aware Hina has NO special training outside of being a ninja (which afaik does not have anything for increasing her strength or at least does not mention it).
Also another thing to contradict the 100x needed stat amp to slice Gyutaro's head off, without a slayer mark, Tanjiro... stabbed him. And penetrated his leg. Top panel also lends credence to the 100x amp not being literal as well and being more a hyperbole to get him to use his body better.

If they do not scale to the attacks in durability there is not a need for a 100x amp, the 100x amp is SINGULAR statement by Tanjiro who successfully stabbed Gyutaro without using a 100x amp prior to even saying it, Tanjiro also uses hyperbolic statements to motivate himself through combat see almost any time he's starting to struggle for that.

 

[chosen]

That said Hina.. a shinobi was able to land a kunai piercing Gyutaro and poison him, see chapter 89 and chapter 90 as far as I am aware Hina has NO special training outside of being a ninja (which afaik does not have anything for increasing her strength or at least does not mention it).
Also another thing to contradict the 100x needed stat amp to slice Gyutaro's head off, without a slayer mark, Tanjiro... stabbed him. And penetrated his leg

It's already accepted only the neck would scale
"Unknown At least Building level with his neck and kama " which is true. Body gets sliced apart by character easily but struggle With neck happens

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

It's already accepted only the neck

oh really? I had not noticed that, but I see that on his page thank you.

If you care to would you or anyone, be so kind to tell me and the rest of us why the 100x would be literal I am not going to prove a blasted negative. The words read like a 'I MUST STRIKE THEM DOWN WITH A FORCE OF A THOUSAND BLADES' or 'I will punch with 1,000,000%',

then there is the statement of Mu = Infinite in the next arc... then they don't really mention a value beyond that from what I recall.

We know it is not Infinite that would be very stupid, it might be 100x if you are assuming his neck scales to his kama but do we have evidence of that or is that just conjecture that his neck must scale to his kama to upscale the verse when it demands proof to be so?

I have noted the positive correlation of hyperbole along with others noting it too, if the single statement said is true to the supposed 100x stat amp then I implore someone to provide evidence other than 'but they should just scale to the attacks' because we have rode that horse to death of UES and if demons scale to it or not which we don't seem to have a way to say demons 100% scale to their BDA's or that it is a UES.

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side note: using every muscle head to toe might need a common feat in fiction section given so many series like to use it. It might be helpful to have in general.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Gotcha. I’d like for them to bring forward the contradiction, then. If it’s true, then yeah, axe the multiplier

Giyu before awakening his mark was somewhat relative to Marked Tanjiro during his fight with Akaza and Akaza considers Giyu an opponent worthy of respect. When Giyu does awaken his mark he begins to outspeed Akaza and the two seem relative as Akaza adapts to his speed. The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him. The profiles don't even apply the x100 multiplier to any of the Hashira that scale to 8-B+ or 8-A in their base like Gyomei or Sanemi because we'd end up with tier jumps to 7-C. Don't even get me started on how we'd need to scale Marked Sanemi to x10000 Base Muichuro based on the scaling that Base Sanemi did better against Kokushibo than Marked Muichuro.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay yeah axe the multiplier. God tiers would then be 8-C+

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

why would being made of Doma's ice mean that they can physically punch/kick/strike with the same thermal energy he used to create the giant sculpture

Doma's BDA allows him to release CB levels of energy, his clones were born thanks to his BDA, so they must be able to release CB levels of energy too. Just follow the example in the Creation Feats page: "[...] it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat". These clones can attack using the same power system that allowed Doma to create the ice sculpture, and so they acquire their energy from the same energy pool, even Doma said that the abilities of the clones were as strong as his.
Accordingly, Kokushibo must also be capable of releasing CB levels of energy through his BDA, because he scales above Doma, and those characters who are able to stop/block/parry/withstand such attacks, also scale to the ice sculpture feat.
At most I think you could argue that demons' striking strength and/or durability can't be scaled from their BDAs, but their AP would remain the same, while those characters who can rival BDAs attacks through sheer strength would in fact scale to the energy output from said BDAs.

being strong due to having lots of Muzan's blood =/= using said blood as an energy system to amp physicals and perform supernatural stuff

I'm not talking about Muzan's blood being an UES, that isn't necessary for the characters to scale from their BDAs.



Also, does anyone knows where is the rule that states there must exist an UES in the verse for creation feats to scale physicals? I just haven't been able to find it.

 

[chosen]

Giyu before awakening his mark was somewhat relative to Marked Tanjiro during his fight with Akaza and Akaza considers Giyu an opponent worthy of respect. When Giyu does awaken his mark he begins to outspeed Akaza and the two seem relative as Akaza adapts to his speed. The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him. The profiles don't even apply the x100 multiplier to any of the Hashira that scale to 8-B+ or 8-A in their base like Gyomei or Sanemi because we'd end up with tier jumps to 7-C. Don't even get me started on how we'd need to scale Marked Sanemi to x10000 Base Muichuro based on the scaling that Base Sanemi did better against Kokushibo than Marked Muichuro.

One Thing to note, not really to argue cuz too late for me buttt
it isn't just to get past akaza prediction. He cuts akaza arm before off without Giyuu and akaza himself noticing and akaza himself says Tanjiro got faster saying only now tanjiro surprassed him in speed. Cant find chapter page byt i recall eyes amp alsl allowing muichiro to barely dodge Kokushibo attack
Idrc if is axes just pointing this ouy

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay yeah axe the multiplier. God tiers would then be 8-C+

Though you could probably upscale Muzan to baseline High 8-C tbh

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

Though you could probably upscale Muzan to baseline High 8-C tbh

Has anyone calced the explosion that took a huge chunk of his body perhaps? Just another thing to think about

 

[Dalesean027]

Giyu before awakening his mark was somewhat relative to Marked Tanjiro during his fight with Akaza and Akaza considers Giyu an opponent worthy of respect. When Giyu does awaken his mark he begins to outspeed Akaza and the two seem relative as Akaza adapts to his speed. The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him. The profiles don't even apply the x100 multiplier to any of the Hashira that scale to 8-B+ or 8-A in their base like Gyomei or Sanemi because we'd end up with tier jumps to 7-C. Don't even get me started on how we'd need to scale Marked Sanemi to x10000 Base Muichuro based on the scaling that Base Sanemi did better against Kokushibo than Marked Muichuro.

Okay yeah axe the multiplier. God tiers would then be 8-C+

Agreed

 

[Ped2018]

Giyu before awakening his mark was somewhat relative to Marked Tanjiro during his fight with Akaza and Akaza considers Giyu an opponent worthy of respect. When Giyu does awaken his mark he begins to outspeed Akaza and the two seem relative as Akaza adapts to his speed. The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him. The profiles don't even apply the x100 multiplier to any of the Hashira that scale to 8-B+ or 8-A in their base like Gyomei or Sanemi because we'd end up with tier jumps to 7-C. Don't even get me started on how we'd need to scale Marked Sanemi to x10000 Base Muichuro based on the scaling that Base Sanemi did better against Kokushibo than Marked Muichuro.

Why would all the marks give the same multiplier though?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Has anyone calced the explosion that took a huge chunk of his body perhaps? Just another thing to think about

I don’t think you can scale someone to an explosion that took off a chunk of their body, so it’d be pretty pointless I feel

 

[Nehz_XZX]

As far as I'm aware the 100x multiplier is only applied for Tanjiro in the Post-Rehabilitation Training Key and is not supposed to apply to the Demon Slayer Mark in general or even any of Tanjiro's other Keys. The statement about it is simply a matter of Tanjiro stating that he'd need that much more strength to cut through Gyutaro's neck and then proceeding to do that exact feat after the Demon Slayer Mark becomes active.

 

[Passersby]

No, that was an oops on my behalf and comes down to the idea of do we count the individual blades or the entirety of the release which fair enough, both can be viewed as fair game depending on the character. Which compounds with this next part

noted, apologies for assuming the worst..anyways


i have a lot of work to do here

and probably wouldn't even make a difference, but whatevs

In AP perhaps but even if we say it does go for AP that does not mean he inherently scales to them for durability.

this was never really one my main talking points, but if he can instantly unleash that level of energy it's safe to assume that he does scale in durability since it's powered by his blood which itsel

After all BDA's alter the blood in a supernatural way but we never really get a confirmation for the process that follows. So, if we do not know how he or almost any Demon uses BDA to achieve these things outside of a vague supernatural method do they have to do it one by one, do they do it in bunches? Does it change from Demon to Demon? Moon vs Non-Moon, Upper vs Lower, 1 vs 6 etc...

mainly because you can't explain how blood turns to ice, but it's safe to say the output of the attack/any supernatural phenomenon that occurs is powered by the blood since that's how it's activated, more evidence that suggests this is a certain strenght requirement is needed for a demon to unleash a BDA so a certain level of energy is required for the blood to be able to power a BDA and the output is enhanced the stronger the demon is
and there really isn't any reason to beleive the mechanism with which a BDA is activated differs, it's really all the same

All of that ends up wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to the series, which I feel we shouldn't do and we should be more scrutinous with series with UES or what we assume is one in a series which we've seen recently becoming known other series (JJK for example) have been abusing that idea with the people who scale it on the site.. off-site too. (Looks like this was addressed)

of course, this should be taken in a step by step basis, but gyutaro's fight fixes just about everything and i already said why above, in JJK's case, characters who can physically contend with each other can get demolished by the other side's cursed technique output, and this never really happened in demon slayer nor was such a case ever shown

Yeah, I don't disagree but I feel the metal and his neck did not just magically alter so I do see where you are coming from that if someone couldn't shear beforehand then could afterwards they had to have some increase in force,

not really some, but quite a substantial increase of energy in this case

my big issue is the 100x specifically, it could be 3x or 5000x for all I can tell but it does not really give a solid level to the boost and I think the 100x should be removed off of Tanjiro's page given as I think SunDaGamer said, it is like Deku's 1million percent punch.

i don't really know anything about deku's 1million percent stuff, but i can see the point here, but yeah, authors can't do math (the poor souls alread have enough workload to begin with...) my argument was that it's a completely reasonable assumption/statement given that it actually makes sens and it's one of tanjiro's main character traits to analyze his opponents, it can also be reasoned that he felt like he needed 100 times or such as much ouput to cut gyutaro's neck, but i can also see your point that it's a hyperbole

my take is either make it possibly or simply discard it, to begin i was really jsut arguing the increase in energy is several orders of magnitudes more regardless because some peeps think that the statement itself doesn't make sens

If it is I re-read demon slayer recently so I might still be missing things but yes, no issue with Tanjiro getting stronger after re-reading I just do not think it is quantifiable as it sits is all hence, we should find a value for these guys

it is quantifiabe, i just forgot just about most of my math foundations as a math major ig

tanjiro's blade cuts in at best like 0.5 cm? 1 cm into gyutaro's neck?

knowing that we can then look at this article detailing the average neck for both men and women, then even to low ball it assume that gyiutaro's neck is the smallest at a circumference of 14 inches, which is about ~35.5 cm

dividing by 2π since 2π x r is the circumference, we get a radius of about 5.65 cm, If tanjiro's blade cut in one centimeter, we can draw a chord (this ) in the circle that's one centimeter from the edge of thom the neck.

drawing the radii to the two points where the chord touches the circle, we get a triangle with a X cm height and two sides of Y cm then we can calculate from there the chord length, from there we have to get the arc's angle and use the it to determine the fraction of the circle, remove that from the total area of the neck, then use the abovementioned F2 = A2 X F1/A1 to get the force needed to cut trough the neck, get the distance, the use a standard work formula to get the energy

the latter stuff is what i don't know and completely forgot how to do, but at least i do know the energy needed is far higher than 100 times, i just tough using that as a substitute and low ball would be better anyways

As it could be better mind body connection,

the mark was never had any sort of connection to the individual's mind

or other things I think it is currently just too ambiguous to say 'Tanjiro said 100x therefore it is clearly 100x as a stat amp' given Tanjiro does regularly tell himself to keep at it and push even further.

the difference is the latter isn't really quantifiable and is 100% him motivating himself to try harder while the former can be argued to be the result of some sort of analysis he made whe slashed gyutaro's neck, and it does make sens anyways

The reason this is compounded with the UES and the blades is the matter of if it is not a UES then the ability should not scale to the user for normal AP or Durability...

..i.uhh, sorry, but i don't understand your poinr here, demon hunters are pure swordsman that make you shizophrenic if they're skilled enough, they have no power system other than breahing

(this was also addressed it seems, sorry if it seems like I am dog piling but do be sure to let me know if I missed something)

no worries man

Ultimate Tensile Strength, UTS is a measure of the load that can be applied to a material before it fails.

one tiny little detail you missed is the maximum tensile stress that a material can withstand before it fails (failing here meaning stretched/pulled apart)

Nothing I misread it my bad I haven't been sat in front of my computer in a few days and should have gotten to replying to you more smoothly sorry Passerby.

nah no worries, i'm enjoying the convo anyways lol


and then comes this

Giyu before awakening his mark was somewhat relative to Marked Tanjiro during his fight with Akaza

this just demonstrates a complete lack of reading comprehension as tanjiro visibly struggles to deal with akaza's casual unamped attacks, got blitzed and would have died if it wasn't for giyu saving him, it's evident that when Akaza spends even a little more effort, he can strike faster than Tanjiro can use Fake Rainbow, despite this, at the same speed, giyu is still fast enough to appear and slash through the arm without a Mark.


from the previous showing for example(1 2 ) akaza was immensely holding back his speed when tanjiro was the one fighting him, and even then in terms of techniques he got his sword caugh when giyu even when unmarked managed to hold on for far longer

the only reason he didn't instantly die is because giyu is the one who is fighting akaza and akaza likes enjoying fights and not ending them instantly, and of course, none of this is Akaza trying at anywhere near his full speed at all, After giyu's mark appears, akaza isn't suddenly blitzed by giyu's spike in speed, but matches his speed instantly

and i will get to the speed boost in the next one

and Akaza considers Giyu an opponent worthy of respect. When Giyu does awaken his mark he begins to outspeed Akaza and the two seem relative as Akaza adapts to his speed.

akaza was holding back in the fight prior, to deny the speed boost of the marks is disgenious

we have the biggest clear cut example with tanjiro, once he unlocked his Mark in season 3, he was able to blitz the three emotion clones that he could barely evade even with Nezuko's help and even says that he can now cut down all four at once, despite barely being able to cut down a single one before

Then, he's struck by karaku's wind attack, which blows him a significant distance away from Sekido, we can then see how on this page, tanjiro isn't even in sight, then in the next page, he blitzes sekido so quickly that Sekido can't even look down before his arm is severed. Then immediately on the next page, he blitzes urogi so quickly that he doesn't even feel he's been cut before he realizes that tanjiro is behind him

and later when genya's about to be impaled by sekido's staff which inches away from him and tanjiro is nowhere in sight,tanjiro then appears out of nowhere and severs sekido's hand is severed at the wrist (2 links)so quickly we don't see the blade or even a swing
and if tanjiro wasn't enough there is muichiro who went from being unable to react to gyokko's water swallowing him to moving faster enough to appear invisible to an amped gyokko whose speed has increased

The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him.

the transparent world explicitly increases speed as tanjiro who was being blitzed and overwhelmed by akaza went to seeing him move in slow motion, even the panel you sent says that tanjiro's body moved faster than ever before and anyone remotely paying attention to the fight would have noticed the speed boost given how Tanjiro physically manages to blitz Akaza at this point when he severs his fist mid punch before it can hit giyu. It can't simply be prediction speed because Akaza's own eyes can't see Tanjiro pass in front of him to sever his arm, and at this point Akaza is fighting faster than Tanjiro since he just sped up to match marked giyu

and no, the STW also offers a huge boost in cutting power since tanjiro prior to getting it was immensely struggling to cut even akaza's arms and only barely managed to scratch his head, meanwhile when he did get the STW, he slashed trough akaza's neck like a hot knife trough butter, he didn't even feel any resistance, so that argument is also bullshit

The profiles don't even apply the x100 multiplier to any of the Hashira that scale to 8-B+ or 8-A in their base like Gyomei or Sanemi because we'd end up with tier jumps to 7-C. Don't even get me started on how we'd need to scale Marked Sanemi to x10000 Base Muichuro based on the scaling that Base Sanemi did better against Kokushibo than Marked Muichuro.

and yeah, of course we do if that was to ever apply, marked muichiro is basically nothing without the speed amp brough by the STW, he got so foderrized and unambiguously blitzed,in the "fight" (if you can even call it that) his sword gets inches away from kokushibo's neck before kokushibo completely vanishes and reappears behind him, muichiro then comments his speed is in another dimension, then as if to confirm this bs muichro goes for another attack and once again when his blade is inches from koku's neck mid swing he grabs the blade, pulls it from muichiro's grasp, and impale him on it so quickly that muichiro doesn't even register that the blade is gone until he's already pinned against the pillar, he is literally statuing Muichiro in terms of speed and that's marked muichrio

meanwhile sanemi fights fairly decently for a while even while Kokushibo is increasing his speed is and the latter is even surprised that he's still keeping up, though at this point anemi can't even blink gyomei is even faster and manages to snap Kokushibo's sword while in base

marked muichiro is literally nothing compared to sanemi and gyomei, but go figures those 2 are the strongest pillars


edit: ....some of my links disappeared for some reason...horay

i will fix this (maybe) later
also may or may not dip

 

[SunDaGamer]

the transparent world explicitly increases speed as tanjiro who was being blitzed and overwhelmed by akaza went to seeing him move in slow motion, even the panel you sent says that tanjiro's body moved faster than ever before and anyone remotely paying attention to the fight would have noticed the speed boost given how Tanjiro physically manages to blitz Akaza at this point when he severs his fist mid punch before it can hit giyu

And was I saying speed was an issue here? The issue is that Marked Tanjiro isn't x100 weaker than Marked Giyu and if we want to give Transparent World a x100 multiplier then that's an even bigger issue. The point here is that there isn't any actual concrete enough evidence that the marks are x100 amps that the standards on multipliers demands for higher multipliers, we don't give Deku a x10000 amp for OFA 1,000,000% even though we can argue that Deku's previous OFA 100% attacks didn't take out Muscular while 1,000,000% one-shotted him

 

[Passersby]

was I saying speed was an issue here

your statement

The fight does not make it a point that Tanjiro is now out of his league compared to Giyu by x100, in fact all Tanjiro needed to do was awaken some better Enhanced Senses and a state of mind that would allow him to get past Akaza's prediction and behead him.

implied there was not a single stat boost, and it was merely the addition of a better form of sensory preception that allowed tanjiro to beat akaza, i merely corrected that notion

i also provided input on the AP

and no, the STW also offers a huge boost in cutting power since tanjiro prior to getting it was immensely struggling to cut even akaza's arms and only barely managed to scratch his head, meanwhile when he did get the STW, he slashed trough akaza's neck like a hot knife trough butter, he didn't even feel any resistance, so that argument is also bullshit

reminder that demon necks are several orders of magnitude more durable than any other demon flesh

The issue is that Marked Tanjiro isn't x100 weaker than Marked Giyu and if we want to give Transparent World a x100 multiplier then that's an even bigger issue.

not seeing it when tanjiro himself states a single punch from akaza would have went straight trough him and killed him while later he actually survived being kicked in the side and merely falls unconscious instead of dying

the STW even allowed muichiro to not get utterly blitzed by and actually see kokushibo even when the latter is serious, it's in and of itself, an overall stat boost

The point here is that there isn't any actual concrete enough evidence that the marks are x100 amps that the standards on multipliers demands for higher multipliers

the concrete evidence is physics ig?

it's even quantifiable

it's a random mark that makes you die at 25 while giving you a strenght boost, the way he used his strenght really doesnt' matter when with the way shearing mechanics work, his sword was able to cut through a significantly larger surface area which would have resulted in a proportionate increase to shear force compared to his earlier strike, since the former is measured as F/A, in order to overcome the shaer stenght of gyutaro's neck he would need to apply a sufficient force over that area to match or exceed the shear strength with shear stress. for exmple If you cut an area A1 with minimum force F1, then to cut an area A2, you would need minimum force F2 = A2 * F1 / A1, because F2 / A2 = F1 / A1 = shear strength. If A2 is larger than A1, then F2 is larger than F1, his strike while unclocking the slayer is several orders of magnitudes higher than what it is without it considering he couldn't shear even a single inch into gyutaro even when the latter was poisoned weakened and paralyzed

the same thing happened with muichiro where before he could his sword a few cms into gyokko's neck and after unlocking the mark he could cut it like a hot knife butter, to deny the stats amplification is a bit silly, it has has nothing to do with biology, it's literally just magic

if tanjiro for example was only able to cut trough, say, 1cm^2 while putting in maximum effort, then unlocks the mark, and shears trough 100cm^2 of the same material, that would be about 100 times more force than his previous strike, and that's without even considering that the distance of applied force would be multiple times longer, so the energy needed to do that is the force x the distance of applied force, aka several orders of magnitudes worth
how strong gyutaro is really doesn't matter (tanjiro objectively failed to shear trough even an inch of his neck), it's the material physcis at play here

i don't know about mha however
but if the wiki demand some form of standards that weren't met for this case then it's fine

 

[SunDaGamer]

the concrete evidence is physics ig?

it's even quantifiable

Concrete evidence would be the multiplier being stated again in a context that couldn't be interpreted as hyperbole like for example when the Hashira were given a run down on all the information about marks or at least a guidebook confirming marks do make you x100 stronger, the fact that we don't even apply the Demon Slayer Marks being x100 multipliers consistently in the verse and only apply it for that one moment really doesn't help the case that the x100 multiplier isn't a hyperbole.

not seeing it when tanjiro himself states a single punch from akaza would have went straight trough him and killed him while later he actually survived being kicked in the side and merely falls unconscious instead of dying

Pre-Transparent World Marked Tanjiro could block Akaza's Destructive Death attacks without being turned into paste like what trying to block an attack >x100 stronger than you would do plus Akaza's Compass Needle was allowing him to do what Tanjiro described as clinging to his vital points like a magnet which didn't work anymore after Tanjiro awakened Selfless State and Akaza ain't acknowledging people x100 weaker than him

the STW even allowed muichiro to not get utterly blitzed by and actually see kokushibo even when the latter is serious, it's in and of itself, an overall stat boost

Transparent World gives Analytical Prediction and a slowed down perception of time so I'm not sure how this is indicative of an overall stat boost plus Kokushibo was occupied by Sanemi and Gyomei's attacks and still cut Muichuro's leg off when Muichuro slipped in through the opening Gyomei tearing a chunk of Kokushibo's torso off created.

the concrete evidence is physics ig?

it's even quantifiable

Calculating the depth Tanjiro could cut into Gyutaro beforehand then how far he could cut into it after getting his mark to work out a multiplier would be calc stacking, this is literally the 3rd example of calc stacking on its page.

 

[Passersby]

Concrete evidence would be the multiplier being stated again in a context that couldn't be interpreted as hyperbole

well, if that's the standard fair enough i guess;

Pre-Transparent World Marked Tanjiro could block Akaza's Destructive Death attacks without being turned into paste

...yes, when akaza was holding back, not when he was fighting a marked giyu level opponent

plus Akaza's Compass Needle was allowing him to do what Tanjiro described as clinging to his vital points like a magnet

which has nothing to do with the attack's potency but it's accuracy, so not sure why you're bringing this up

e and Akaza ain't acknowledging people x100 weaker than him

this is an assumption, we have no idea what he considers strong or weak to begin with since he considers marked tanjiro "Strong" yet he could easily blitz and one shot him

I'm not sure how this is indicative of an overall stat boost

...what about, yk, literally everything i've said above that you've yet to address?

the transparent world explicitly increases speed as tanjiro who was being blitzed and overwhelmed by akaza went to seeing him move in slow motion, even the panel you sent says that tanjiro's body moved faster than ever before and anyone remotely paying attention to the fight would have noticed the speed boost given how Tanjiro physically manages to blitz Akaza at this point when he severs his fist mid punch before it can hit giyu. It can't simply be prediction speed because Akaza's own eyes can't see Tanjiro pass in front of him to sever his arm, and at this point Akaza is fighting faster than Tanjiro since he just sped up to match marked giyu

and no, the STW also offers a huge boost in cutting power since tanjiro prior to getting it was immensely struggling to cut even akaza's arms and only barely managed to scratch his head, meanwhile when he did get the STW, he slashed trough akaza's neck like a hot knife trough butter, he didn't even feel any resistance, so that argument is also bullshit

Kokushibo was occupied by Sanemi and Gyomei's attacks and still cut Muichuro's leg off

i don't think you quite understand what statuing means, but if you already forgot what i wrote above, here it is again

muichro goes for another attack and once again when his blade is inches from koku's neck mid swing he grabs the blade, pulls it from muichiro's grasp, and impale him on it so quickly that muichiro doesn't even register that the blade is gone until he's already pinned against the pillar, he is literally statuing Muichiro in terms of speed and that's marked muichiro

a casual not even trying kokushibo was able to stand still, wait until muichiro's sword is inches away from him, then grab it before it touches him and impale the former before he even realizes what actually happened, the mere fact that he can now see him and somewhat keep up even when he is inferior to both of them is objective evidence that he got faster and he even saves Sanemi, (altough he was injured and slowing down)

kokushibo was even suprised by the fact that he was holding on and states that he must have unlocked the Transparent World

 

[SunDaGamer]

which has nothing to do with the attack's potency but it's accuracy, so not sure why you're bringing this up

Because directly striking weak points is going to be more fatal

this is an assumption, we have no idea what he considers strong or weak to begin with since he considers marked tanjiro "Strong" yet he could easily blitz and one shot him

It's not a farfetched assumption to say that a dude who hates weak people and only acknowledges those he finds worthy wouldn't even care to look in the direction of someone x100 below their level and then you have to assume he was holding back to that extent despite going for killing blows and activating Technique Development.

 

[Passersby]

Because directly striking weak points is going to be more fatal

fatal doesn't mean the punch will literally pulverize everthing in it's way and cut you in half like the panel suggested

It's not a farfetched assumption to say that a dude who hates weak people and only acknowledges those he finds worthy wouldn't even care to look in the direction of someone x100 below their level

it is, when he can easily blitz and kill the guy whom he ackowledged as "strong", you have zero idea what the requirement to be deemed as such are in this scenario, and spoiler, what we do know, is someone whom he can no diff can be deemed strong

and then you have to assume he was holding back to that extent despite going for killing blows and activating Technique Development.

which he did, because he could literally and without the shadow of a doubt, blitz and one shot marked tanjiro whom he deemed strong, he was simply trying to enjoy the fight

 

[Ped2018]

What is this yapping...

 

[chosen]

T

What is this yapping...

Who is this refering to

 

[Passersby]

T
Who is this refering to

probably most of my stuff...

 

[CloverDragon03]

If the multiplier's getting axed (which I feel it should be given the apparent contradictions), this is my proposition for Demon Slayer's scaling, using Tanjiro as a reference:

Post-Demon Slayer Training Tanjiro: 0.006 tons, 0.008 tons with Hinokami Kagura (9-A, higher with Hinokami Kagura)
Post-Rehabilitation Training Tanjiro: 0.358 tons, higher with the Demon Slayer Mark (8-C, higher with the Demon Slayer Mark)
Post-Type Zero Training Tanjiro: 0.358 tons, 1.432 tons with the Demon Slayer Mark (8-C, higher with the Demon Slayer Mark)
Post-Hashira Training Tanjiro: 1.432 tons (8-C)
Post-Sun Breathing Mastery/Demon Form Tanjiro: 2 tons (High 8-C)

Note: The 1.432 ton characters would be Building level+. In addition, High 8-C comes from Muzan upscaling far above the Upper Moons.

 

[Passersby]

which I feel it should be given the apparent contradictions)

my efforts were in vain.......

 

[Ped2018]

As far as I'm aware the 100x multiplier is only applied for Tanjiro in the Post-Rehabilitation Training Key and is not supposed to apply to the Demon Slayer Mark in general or even any of Tanjiro's other Keys. The statement about it is simply a matter of Tanjiro stating that he'd need that much more strength to cut through Gyutaro's neck and then proceeding to do that exact feat after the Demon Slayer Mark becomes active.

This is still the most relevant comment

 

[GunshyFever]

I agree with the OP

 

[Nierre]

I'm still not seeing the contradiction.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm still not seeing the contradiction.

Giyu was already contending with Akaza before awakening the Mark, and when he awakened it, he only began to fully match and somewhat overwhelm him. A 100x amp would cause Giyu to start effortlessly stomping Akaza, which is evidently not what happens.

 

[Nierre]

Right, but as Nehz mentioned the multiplier would only be relevant towards Tanjiro, not towards anyone with a Slayer Mark. Nothing in the story points to the mark being a 100x multiplier, but instead that Tanjiro had to increase his stats by 100x to achieve the Mark. AKA his base stats were much lower than anyone else's (like Giyu's), and he needed to summon far more power to do so.

And again, as Nehz mentioned that would only apply to this key, as it was a one time thing, and Tanjiro's base has gotten stronger where he likely doesn't need to apply 100x more power to reach the form again, which IMO is justified by the fact that the multiplier is never mentioned again, as he doesn't need to power up as much to awaken.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So you're suggesting the multiplier only applies for that one time and never again?

Not sure how I feel about that. I'll leave that to other people's opinions.

 

[chosen]

Idk about being one time for tanjiro but not same multiplier for everyone seems about right. We don't know enough about marks to say it's same amp for everyone from memory. I don't think we even know why every hashira has different marks on different places .

 

[Nierre]

Like if Tanjiro (in this key) is a 5, and to awaken the Mark is 500, then naturally he'd have to summon 100x power to achieve that state.

But then in the next key, his base would be a 500, and his mark would be far higher than before.

that's how I see it. Unlike Super Saiyan, the form isn't stated to make you 50x stronger than before, Tanjiro just needed to summon 100x his strength to achieve said state. After that, I'm not sure whether he still needs to summon 100x his strength to achieve the form as it's never mentioned again. At most you could maybe argue for a possibly x100 with Slayer Mark for his other keys but I'm not too keen on that.

It's not a multiplier for everyone with a Mark, it's specifically for Tanjiro, that much is for certain.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

As far as I'm aware the 100x multiplier is only applied for Tanjiro in the Post-Rehabilitation Training Key and is not supposed to apply to the Demon Slayer Mark in general or even any of Tanjiro's other Keys. The statement about it is simply a matter of Tanjiro stating that he'd need that much more strength to cut through Gyutaro's neck and then proceeding to do that exact feat after the Demon Slayer Mark becomes active.

This makes much more sense and doesn't arises any contradictions.

 

[KingTempest]

That statement seems so hyperbolic

“Summon hundreds of times your strength" is deadass just "above all, plus ultra"

Wasn't Tanjiro already cutting into Gyutaro's neck regularly with a regular ass basic ass no mark ass hinokami kagura? 100x would've made him slice through it like butter, which he still didn't do.

It makes very little sense for it to be a legitimate 100x difference when the fool was already able to wound him prior to the injuries gained and stamina lost

 

[KingAdamm]

cool uh
Lotta people in the verse scale to or upscale to the next tier up from this calc.

Problem: It's a creation feat., temperature change and such. People are scaling physically to this despite there not being a UES of sorts in the verse (I asked, and didn't really get any answers that establish one) that would provide a mechanism to say that Doma (and thus anyone who scales to him) can punch with the same energy he makes ice sculptures with.

If this feat is axed, I believe the next highest value is 8-C (0.8 Tons from a 100x multiplier) and upscaling from there.
Apparently this 100x multiplier was just added with no CRT, so as of last edit, it's up in the air what the 8-Bs/8-As will be scaling to now.

Agree: (6:15) (@Viott, @SunDaGamer, @Damage3245, @SuperStar, @D.bunk01, @Tllmbrg, @AdamVhenJP, @Armorchompy, @Harith0cell, @DMUA, @Dalesean027, @TheRustyOne, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Maverick_Zero_X, @chosen, @Excellence616, @Robespierre_Isidore, @KingTempest, @Metalballrun, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @CloverDragon03)
Neutral: (0:0)
Disagree: (0:0)

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Agree