[Demon Slayer] Doma's Physicals

[FelpeXDopZ]

Anime seems like it HEAVILY exaggerates the feat. Yea I'd just use manga instead.

It doesn't.

The manga only shows the beginning of the attack, but the actual scale of it must have been way greater for a number of reasons:
1.- In the aftermath of the explosion there is not even a single brothel that’s still standing.
2.- When Gyutaro released his attack, Tengen and Tanjiro were pretty much right next to each other, but after that they ended up ended up in relatively far away locations, same for Inosuke and Zenitsu who were in the same spot and also in the building that was right next to Tanjiro and Tengen.
3.- Tanjiro explicitly states that everything was a wreck.

The anime doesn’t buffs nor exaggerates the feat, it just gives a better depiction of it since the manga cuts off pretty much at the beginning of the attack, while the anime shows the whole process. The manga shows only 2 houses being destroyed by Gyutaro’s “explosion”, but after that we literally see not a single standing building, plus the fact the characters were clearly tossed away by said explosion, it’s clear that the manga skipped a lot of what happened during the attack. There is no need for the scene to be 100% exactly the same as the manga so it can be used, the only “major” difference is some ground being destroyed in the vicinity of Gyutaro’s body, which can be ignored in a well done calculation. So the anime doesn't really contradicts the manga, it just provides more insight on the feat.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

And as far as I know, CRTs must wait for the reply of supporters before being closed, so I'll tag a few
@CloverDragon03 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Nehz_XZX

 

[SeijiSetto]

And as far as I know, CRTs must wait for the reply of supporters before being closed, so I'll tag a few
@CloverDragon03 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Nehz_XZX

realistically they don't
also regular users can't tag people, but i'll do it for you.
@CloverDragon03 @Nehz_XZX @DemonGodMitchAubin

 

[Metalballrun]

AFAIK CRTs only need approval from at least 2 staff members, and this thread already has like, 5 in approval for the initial proposals.
Pretty sure the only issue remaining is finding where to scale the profiles which were relying on the soon defunct calculations/scaling.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

also regular users can't tag people, but i'll do it for you.
@CloverDragon03 @Nehz_XZX @DemonGodMitchAubin

Ouch, I din't knew that. Thanks for tagging them!

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I agree essentially, best you equalize it to is Blood Demon Arts

 

[CloverDragon03]

Unless Demon Slayer has a UES (which it doesn’t appear to), then yeah this feat shouldn’t really scale to physicals

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Unless Demon Slayer has a UES (which it doesn’t appear to), then yeah this feat shouldn’t really scale to physicals

Why though? There is no rule that states there must be an UES so that creation feats scale physicals. There is also the fact that Doma and other demons can use their BDAs to physically attack other characters, and some of these characters are able to block, parry, deflect or withstand such attacks; like Tengen parrying Gyutaro's blood blades or Mitsuri surviving Zohakuten's sonic wave, meaning that they physically scale to those attacks. Am I wrong somehow?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Why though? There is no rule that states there must be an UES so that creation feats scale physicals

There is, actually. See our Creation Feats page. Having a UES is pretty much the textbook means of scaling creation feats to physicals, along with other factors

 

[CloverDragon03]

This thread can definitely be applied with the staff agreements and the time that’s passed btw

 

[SeijiSetto]

This thread can definitely be applied with the staff agreements and the time that’s passed btw

the only thing left to do is figure out what value they get knocked down to
apparently the 100x multi was never accepted, the wooden dragon feat i had some problems with here
the rengoku one looks fine but i'm not sure if inverse-square needs to be applied in this scenario - he seems to be standing right in the middle of where all the explosives dropped. what do you think?

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

There is, actually. See our Creation Feats page. Having a UES is pretty much the textbook means of scaling creation feats to physicals, along with other factors

I did and previously quoted it in this same thread, but the Creation Feats page doesn't mentions anything about an UES, the closest there is to that is in the Requirements section, which states the following:
"In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common power system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks. For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat".
In the case of Doma, his creation is connected to the rest of his abilities through his BDA, which is the "common power system". We should also consider the fact that the pages says: "Often that is due to a common power system", and often is not the same as "must", plus "power system" isn't the same as an UES.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Rengoku calc is fine. I don’t think inverse square law would be needed in this case, as he seems to very much be in the center here.

Also I disagree with removing the 100x amp, it’s very clear-cut and nothing contradicts it. Seems more like personal disbelief to remove it, in my honest opinion.

 

[chosen]

Okay soooo
Are we gonna upgrade lower moons then cuz the rengoku that survived that struggles with lower moon 2

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay soooo
Are we gonna upgrade lower moons then cuz the rengoku that survived that struggles with lower moon 2

Well no. Rui, for instance, shouldn’t scale because he’s Lower Moon 5 (and is thus considerably weaker than Lower Moon 2)

 

[chosen]

Well no. Rui, for instance, shouldn’t scale because he’s Lower Moon 5 (and is thus considerably weaker than Lower Moon 2)

I do recall databook saying he is Prolly 2 or 1 level but he is 5 cuz he didn't really cared about death match to increase his number but was moreso thinking about enmu and train arc Tanjiro tirr mfs

 

[SeijiSetto]

I did and previously quoted it in this same thread, but the Creation Feats page doesn't mentions anything about an UES, the closest there is to that is in the Requirements section, which states the following:
"In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common power system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks. For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat".
In the case of Doma, his creation is connected to the rest of his abilities through his BDA, which is the "common power system". We should also consider the fact that the pages says: "Often that is due to a common power system", and often is not the same as "must", plus "power system" isn't the same as an UES.

You need to prove that Doma can punch or kick or strike with the same amount of energy he puts into his ice creations. A UES is usually this, where physicals and supernatural abilities both come from some underlying power system that lets the output be equalized.
You're arguing semantics of the wording on the page but this is what there needs to be evidence of for his physicals to scale to his temperature change feats.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I do recall databook saying he is Prolly 2 or 1 level but he is 5 cuz he didn't really cared about death match to increase his number but was moreso thinking about enmu and train arc Tanjiro tirr mfs

Probably? But idk KnY scaling much

 

[chosen]

Probably? But idk KnY scaling much

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...0fdd090b286dc3f4438af77b0e66415355ad320b6cb7& misremember abit the statament butt

 

[CloverDragon03]

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...0fdd090b286dc3f4438af77b0e66415355ad320b6cb7& misremember abit the statament butt

Skillful isn’t exactly the same as powerful, though, so it’s a bit iffy

 

[Passersby]

A UES is usually this, where physicals and supernatural abilities both come from some underlying power system that lets the output be equalized.

....aka, the blood?

BDAs are all activated using demon blood

 

[chosen]

Skillful isn’t exactly the same as powerful, though, so it’s a bit iffy

Yeah misremembered abit, prolly just a possibly rating at best if used (cuz rui doesn't really have any dura neg to help him against enmu and lower 2 but ehhh)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Everyone up to Rui would be 9-A, Infinity Train characters would be 8-C, and Entertainment District DSM Tanjiro and up would be 8-B. That’s my opinion scaling-wise

 

[KingTempest]

This is deadass just a Non-Physical Energy System with blood

 

[chosen]

Everyone up to Rui would be 9-A, Infinity Train characters would be 8-C, and Entertainment District DSM Tanjiro and up would be 8-B. That’s my opinion scaling-wise

Rengoku saving the scaling uh
If the multiplier stays and spin off rengoku becomes 8c zohakuten woukd be 143.2 tins

 

[Passersby]

This is deadass just a Non-Physical Energy System with blood

muzan's blood explicitly increases physical strenght the more you're given of it, as said by the swamp demon

they use that very same blood for any other esoteric attack

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

You need to prove that Doma can punch or kick or strike with the same amount of energy he puts into his ice creations.

It might not scale him directly, but Doma is able to create clones and they can use physical attacks like whips or ice spikes, because these clones were created through Doma’s BDA, they scale the ice sculpture feat. Some characters are able to block/withstand such attacks, and therefore they physically scale to the ice sculpture feat.
You then have Kokushibo whose energy output must be greater than that of Doma's, Kokushibo also uses his BDA to physically attack his enemies and some of said enemies are able to block his attacks, therefore scaling physically to Doma's ice sculpture.

You're arguing semantics of the wording on the page but this is what there needs to be evidence of for his physicals to scale to his temperature change feats.

Nope, the page just simply says nothing about UES, if it was something actually relevant, they would have quoted it with a link to the UES page. And a "power system" isn't the same as a UES, a power system can be unique to some characters, like psychic powers or some weird alien energy that the rest of the characters in the verse do not posses, in this case BDAs are pretty much the same as that.

 

[Passersby]

if all there was to UES is having the same energy pool powering up both physicals stats and esoteric arts with the showings of tengen physically deflecting blood blades and then contending with gyutaro on an equal level why the hell did this get to 3 pages and why is everyone even agreeing?

am i missing something here?

 

[KingTempest]

muzan's blood explicitly increases physical strenght the more you're given of it, as said by the swamp demon

they use that very same blood for any other esoteric attack

This means nothing whatsoever

Being strengthened by an energy source doesn't mean that every application of that energy source scales to each other

if all there was to UES is having the same energy pool powering up both physicals stats and esoteric arts

This isn't it

 

[SeijiSetto]

It might not scale him directly, but Doma is able to create clones and they can use physical attacks like whips or ice spikes, because these clones were created through Doma’s BDA, they scale the ice sculpture feat. Some characters are able to block/withstand such attacks, and therefore they physically scale to the ice sculpture feat.

why would being made of Doma's ice mean that they can physically punch/kick/strike with the same thermal energy he used to create the giant sculpture

KT kinda took the words outta my mouth but
being strong due to having lots of Muzan's blood =/= using said blood as an energy system to amp physicals and perform supernatural stuff
an energy system is there because the energy is consumed to perform feats, like how uhhh Ki in DB is consumed to amp physical stats or Magic Power from Black Clover is used to do Reinforcement Magic (which amps physicals)
call it whataboutism if you will but i figured using other examples would help illustrate my point.

 

[Passersby]

Being strengthened by an energy source doesn't mean that every application of that energy source scales to each other

said energy source that strenghtened you also powers just about everything else, regeneration immortality and your esoteric attacks, it's the pool where everything comes from, if the output of the esoteric stuff was stronger than their physical stats they would just spam those and keep a distance since any demon slayer who can block them is guaranteed to fold them like a twig and if it was weaker then it would be useless unless it's some overpowered bullshit like doma's bda and even then that's a postive here since they would upscale from that

tengen is a prime example for all of this, he could block the blood blades and equally contend with gyutaro on a physical stats basis, aka, the output of both gyutaro's blood blades and his physical strikes is comparable

This isn't it

it's a limited energy system ig, if that counts here

 

[Nierre]

I agree with the thread, but disagree with removing with 100x via Clover's reasons. I don't see any reason to remove it. It's very clear and nothing contradicts it as far as I'm aware.

 

[chosen]

Btw this mat be affected but if multiplier and rengoku stuff will be used here the tons scaling

Spin off rengoku, lower moon 2, enmu and up = 0.358 tons

Those 100x above district base Tanjiro = 35.8 tons

Zohakuten and up = 143.2 tons

 

[KingTempest]

100x multiplier ain't accepted

 

[Nierre]

It's on the main page though?

 

[KingTempest]

It's on the main page though?

Cause they're goons. I could go add a 2 million multiplier there right now if I felt like it
This thread noted that it was never accepted so it's getting removed

 

[Nierre]

Sure, but what's the point of removing it here, when we could use this thread to get it accepted, since there's nothing inherently wrong with the multiplier as far as I'm aware?

 

[KingTempest]

Sure, but what's the point of removing it here, when we could use this thread to get it accepted, since there's nothing inherently wrong with the multiplier as far as I'm aware?

Apparently the multiplier is contradicted so yeah

 

[CloverDragon03]

Apparently the multiplier is contradicted so yeah

There’s never been any contradictions to my knowledge. What’s the contradiction?

 

[KingTempest]

I don't know, they're the ones saying it