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Currently, we have a Demon Physiology page for DMC to basically avoid listing in every single demon profile all those abilities, and that's fine, my problem is that some of these abilities aren't really based on physiology or shouldn't be given to all demons, for many reasons. First, I need to ask you, what makes something a ability physiology based ? Answering that question is the biggest point of this CRT, since, in my view, we lost track of that question. I'm sure most of you agree that physiology based abilities are those general haxes and resistances that demons shall have by being demons, and to further prove that said ability scales to ALL demons, we need feats coming from many of them or a quote that uses words in a general sense, with no specific type of demon being mentioned
Let me show an example:
"Demons can strike fear in men by their mere presence"
A clear, direct statement for all demons about being able to Fear Hax them, scales to all of them and therefore, it is physiology based
Now an example that DOESN'T apply to Physiology:
"A flying demon from the Underworld, they can use poison as weapon"
Despite not being 100% clear, a little attention shows that not all demons in existance can use poison as weapons, as the quote is being specific about one type of demon
Among the current abilities, some of them are literally done by one single type of demon, and we absolutely should be more careful in adding this stuff to their physiology, most of the abilities are fine, and why ? Because the statement mentions "Demons", in general, or the feat is consistently done by many of them in different levels, but some others have no general quote whatsoever and/ or are done by a single one. If we keep in this way, demons are going to start being composite, with no unique abilities, and if u played some DMC games, you'll notice demons are very different from each other, some can fly, some are faster than others, some can lift more than others, some can manipulate space and time, some can use poison, fire, ice, darkness, electricity, sound, weaponize parts of their body, the list goes forever
So we'll look at the current abilities and see which actually have anything close to a proof of being physiology based, following the rules:
- It has to be stated to all (ALL) demons
- It has to be used by many (Many, not two or three) demons
Basic, as you can see, and I don't think I'm asking for too much
Demon Physiology has:
Mid Tier is fine, as it only adds that enhanced regeneration
High Tier
I'll talk about the DWE later
Resistances
High Tier
Now, on the Demon World Energy:
Sparda Bois
Most of my problems are about the wording, it repeats stuff many times and could be less convoluted
Accel Deveopment problem:
Small thing actually, as most of the scans are fine, except two:
The first one isn't Accel Development or Reactive Evolution, but actually Rebellion awakening Dante's powers and thus he gains some new abilities (Enough to overcome his wounds at the moment), since it's via a Power Bestowal/Empowerment from a external power source, it shouldn't be listed here.
The other is just the link that explains why they have Low-High Regeneration (As it happens after the Yamato is delivered back to Nero), it should be on their Sparda Mid Tier Regeneration scans.
Then, we have a problem with the other section of abilities:
Current format:
New Proposal:
Basically, separate each ability, each Immortality said ability negates, for each scan, it will be the list a bit longer, but far better to read
Now, on these abilities, we have a MASSIVE circular scaling that happens on the resistances section, as seen here:
Note: EXTREME attention now, this is the most confusing part
Now, it's true that they are not affected by their own Soul and Mind Hax, but the very hax list shows examples of Dante affecting Vergil as feats for him, then why are we listing these as resistances ? There are scans where it shows it working, other shows the opposite. It's extremely confusing and innacurate, specially with quotes like this:
They can withstand attacks from each other or from others demons and still keep normally regenerating from their wounds just fine and they are also capable of developing the ability to resist when their resistances and/or adapting ability are overcome or denied by themselves or others and even resist layers of negations abilities
So, my suggestion ? First we separate what they completely resist from what is currently under discussion:
Avoiding a complete repetition of scans in the process aswell
Now, into the other abilities, let's take a look at each scan and see what's happening there
First scan: like when Dante was still able to instantly heal his wounds when he fought Vergil and he pierced Dante's hands with Yamato and reflected Dante's bullets back for him
This is 6-C Vergil casually fighting Dante, we can't say he was going all out (and thus, using all of his haxes), when he did went more serious, at the top of the Temen-ni-gru, Dante only healed from his wounds after awakening his powers via Rebellion
Second scan: or when Dante after being fatally wounded by Vergil and this time being unable to heal his wound, he was show to have adapted to it by awakened his sleeping demonic powers to avoid dying and also in the process, he became much stronger and faster on his normal form
This only happened because Rebellion was in contact with his blood, which awakened his sword and by that, his demonic power, it doesn't come from his own body reacting but a external power up that will not happen again as the Sword is already awakened. That gave him a higher Regeneration (They jump from Mid to Low High)
Third scan: Vergil was capable to resist to some extent when he was cutted in half by Dante and still was capable to regenerate fast enough to not have his his upper half and lower half disconnected between each other.
This one is the good one
Note that literally none is related to Accelerated Development, they never nuke this from each other
What actually happens is that they can negate each other regeneration to a certain point, and as you guys saw above, their Reactive Evolution do cover their Regeneration (Dante's Awakening and Nero's case aren't good examples as mentioned, but we still have Vergil's case), which explains why they still can eventually regen, but close attention, they are not negating their Reactive Evolution, as it is what's making them heal and come back, what is being nuked is their Regeneration. Being capable of adapting to the current body damage and heal is literally Reactive Evolution, we do have examples of Dante not being able to nuke someone's regen nd eventually managing to harm said person, but they are done by God Tier 2-C Dante (Beyond Sparda Blood), it isn't the case here (But DMC5 changes that, just wait)
So the order of events is:
Vergil cuts Dante > Regeneration Negation > Dante is wounded > Reactive Evolution > Dante heals overtime > Vergil is still capable of harming him
DMC3 is literally filled with this. Based on that, my suggestion actually is, instead of them having this massive circular Hax-Resistance thing, this:
Add to their Regeneration Negation this:
And add to their Accel Dev and Reactive Evolution this:
I believe this leaves the explanation much easier to understand and avoids the circular scaling. It's one big "wow, that looks so much better", isn't ? Now, one can argue this is all about stacking Hax and Resistance again and again and again, but that severely lacks proof and is a massive High End interpretation of their battles that literally can be explained with a low end, safe explanation of the events. It also makes their Regeneration extremely difficult to fully negate
Now, the last thing
Like I said, DMC2 Dante did nuked someone regen after not being able to (Against Chen), however, he isn't capable of negating Vergil's in DMC5. Yes, now we have the broken scaling of events, as DMC2 Dante already has:
So DMC5 Vergil should have:
Aaand that's it, it's a bit long and I'm sorry for such a massive list of stuff, but all these problems are really tiresome to see on the page, and I had to do something. Read with attention and let's focus in making the page as "safe and accurate" as possible, never as "strong" as possible
Let me show an example:
"Demons can strike fear in men by their mere presence"
A clear, direct statement for all demons about being able to Fear Hax them, scales to all of them and therefore, it is physiology based
Now an example that DOESN'T apply to Physiology:
"A flying demon from the Underworld, they can use poison as weapon"
Despite not being 100% clear, a little attention shows that not all demons in existance can use poison as weapons, as the quote is being specific about one type of demon
Among the current abilities, some of them are literally done by one single type of demon, and we absolutely should be more careful in adding this stuff to their physiology, most of the abilities are fine, and why ? Because the statement mentions "Demons", in general, or the feat is consistently done by many of them in different levels, but some others have no general quote whatsoever and/ or are done by a single one. If we keep in this way, demons are going to start being composite, with no unique abilities, and if u played some DMC games, you'll notice demons are very different from each other, some can fly, some are faster than others, some can lift more than others, some can manipulate space and time, some can use poison, fire, ice, darkness, electricity, sound, weaponize parts of their body, the list goes forever
So we'll look at the current abilities and see which actually have anything close to a proof of being physiology based, following the rules:
- It has to be stated to all (ALL) demons
- It has to be used by many (Many, not two or three) demons
Basic, as you can see, and I don't think I'm asking for too much
Demon Physiology has:
Mid Tier is fine, as it only adds that enhanced regeneration
High Tier
I'll talk about the DWE later
Resistances
High Tier
Now, on the Demon World Energy:
Sparda Bois
Most of my problems are about the wording, it repeats stuff many times and could be less convoluted
Accel Deveopment problem:
Small thing actually, as most of the scans are fine, except two:
The first one isn't Accel Development or Reactive Evolution, but actually Rebellion awakening Dante's powers and thus he gains some new abilities (Enough to overcome his wounds at the moment), since it's via a Power Bestowal/Empowerment from a external power source, it shouldn't be listed here.
The other is just the link that explains why they have Low-High Regeneration (As it happens after the Yamato is delivered back to Nero), it should be on their Sparda Mid Tier Regeneration scans.
Then, we have a problem with the other section of abilities:
Current format:
New Proposal:
Basically, separate each ability, each Immortality said ability negates, for each scan, it will be the list a bit longer, but far better to read
Now, on these abilities, we have a MASSIVE circular scaling that happens on the resistances section, as seen here:
Note: EXTREME attention now, this is the most confusing part
Now, it's true that they are not affected by their own Soul and Mind Hax, but the very hax list shows examples of Dante affecting Vergil as feats for him, then why are we listing these as resistances ? There are scans where it shows it working, other shows the opposite. It's extremely confusing and innacurate, specially with quotes like this:
They can withstand attacks from each other or from others demons and still keep normally regenerating from their wounds just fine and they are also capable of developing the ability to resist when their resistances and/or adapting ability are overcome or denied by themselves or others and even resist layers of negations abilities
So, my suggestion ? First we separate what they completely resist from what is currently under discussion:
Avoiding a complete repetition of scans in the process aswell
Now, into the other abilities, let's take a look at each scan and see what's happening there
First scan: like when Dante was still able to instantly heal his wounds when he fought Vergil and he pierced Dante's hands with Yamato and reflected Dante's bullets back for him
This is 6-C Vergil casually fighting Dante, we can't say he was going all out (and thus, using all of his haxes), when he did went more serious, at the top of the Temen-ni-gru, Dante only healed from his wounds after awakening his powers via Rebellion
Second scan: or when Dante after being fatally wounded by Vergil and this time being unable to heal his wound, he was show to have adapted to it by awakened his sleeping demonic powers to avoid dying and also in the process, he became much stronger and faster on his normal form
This only happened because Rebellion was in contact with his blood, which awakened his sword and by that, his demonic power, it doesn't come from his own body reacting but a external power up that will not happen again as the Sword is already awakened. That gave him a higher Regeneration (They jump from Mid to Low High)
Third scan: Vergil was capable to resist to some extent when he was cutted in half by Dante and still was capable to regenerate fast enough to not have his his upper half and lower half disconnected between each other.
This one is the good one
Note that literally none is related to Accelerated Development, they never nuke this from each other
What actually happens is that they can negate each other regeneration to a certain point, and as you guys saw above, their Reactive Evolution do cover their Regeneration (Dante's Awakening and Nero's case aren't good examples as mentioned, but we still have Vergil's case), which explains why they still can eventually regen, but close attention, they are not negating their Reactive Evolution, as it is what's making them heal and come back, what is being nuked is their Regeneration. Being capable of adapting to the current body damage and heal is literally Reactive Evolution, we do have examples of Dante not being able to nuke someone's regen nd eventually managing to harm said person, but they are done by God Tier 2-C Dante (Beyond Sparda Blood), it isn't the case here (But DMC5 changes that, just wait)
So the order of events is:
Vergil cuts Dante > Regeneration Negation > Dante is wounded > Reactive Evolution > Dante heals overtime > Vergil is still capable of harming him
DMC3 is literally filled with this. Based on that, my suggestion actually is, instead of them having this massive circular Hax-Resistance thing, this:
Add to their Regeneration Negation this:
And add to their Accel Dev and Reactive Evolution this:
I believe this leaves the explanation much easier to understand and avoids the circular scaling. It's one big "wow, that looks so much better", isn't ? Now, one can argue this is all about stacking Hax and Resistance again and again and again, but that severely lacks proof and is a massive High End interpretation of their battles that literally can be explained with a low end, safe explanation of the events. It also makes their Regeneration extremely difficult to fully negate
Now, the last thing
Like I said, DMC2 Dante did nuked someone regen after not being able to (Against Chen), however, he isn't capable of negating Vergil's in DMC5. Yes, now we have the broken scaling of events, as DMC2 Dante already has:
So DMC5 Vergil should have:
Aaand that's it, it's a bit long and I'm sorry for such a massive list of stuff, but all these problems are really tiresome to see on the page, and I had to do something. Read with attention and let's focus in making the page as "safe and accurate" as possible, never as "strong" as possible
