Deltarune Discussion cuz it's allowed now apparently

[ShockingPsychic]

A thread for discussion about Deltarune, as apperently the ban on the verse was lifted here.

 

[Imaginym]

Discussion of it had been allowed prior to that, IIRC. It was just considered prohibited to make profiles for because it's an incomplete work; Like making a profile for a character based off of a game demo, desptie that in-progress works are liable to change, so using such basis can lead to lots of inaccuracies & wasted efforts.

Speaking personally, I remember participating in the Deltarune Discussion Thread on VSBW when it was new.
It came out on October 31st, 2018, & it's been nearly a year & a half since then with only a single chapter, so it's possible there's a lack of things to discuss.

Most of the feats & such that are basises for scaling have been discussed, I think. So, to try & inspire some activity, I'll ask this: What can we discuss?

ARE there any noteworthy matters to go over? Interfesting dialogue from the townies or such?
Possible basises for abilities? Unconsidered feats?
Maybe some enemies are notable enough to be documented?
Speculation regarding themes &/or story elements?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

There are a few feats that haven't been looked at IIRC, such as Chaos King launching Kris across the castle roof, the high speed at which the enemies run away, K. Round jumping into the battle box, and I seem to remember Susie shaking a room by stomping.

Since profiles are also allowed, I figured this could act as a hub for the creation process of those.

 

[Imaginym]

There are a few feats that haven't been looked at IIRC, such as Chaos King launching Kris across the castle roof,

If Kris is a typical adolescent, they probably don't weigh above 50 kilograms. Likely Wall Level.
Thinking on it, this is probably something that I should link more often:

General Calc: KE and Humans

vsbattles.fandom.com

To get above Wall Level via Kinetic Energy, you need a result something like this:

Supersonic+: 857.5 m/s Energy: 2.279e7 Joules, Small Building level

(The blog assumes a 62 kg human, & I'm confident Kris isn't that heavy, since, for one, they're not an adult.)

Of course, even if Kris didn't get launched nearly a kilometer in one second, feats like this can still be useful to help establish consistency.

the high speed at which the enemies run away,

IIRC, only a very small amount of the distance they travel is seen, which would result in a very small distance travelled in 1 second. If they go very faster after leaving the screen, we don't know that; AFAIK, we don't know when nor if they accelerate or decelerate.

Most average humans can walk at 1.4 meters per second, as well as run at around 6.7, if not 10 m/s.
If Kris is a typical adolescent, they're probably close to 1.5 meters in height or so. So how many of Kris's body lengths are the enemies visibly moving in 1 second when they retreat?

K. Round jumping into the battle box,

Why is this a feat?

and I seem to remember Susie shaking a room by stomping.

Might be worth looking into, but it's probably either Wall Level, or an outlier, if we can base it off of the earthquake power chart.

Earthquake Calculations

An earthquake (also known as a quake, tremor or temblor) is the perceptible shaking of the surface of the Earth. Earthquakes can be violent enough to toss people around and destroy whole cities. Such earthquakes being caused by characters are a method useable to determine Attack Potency. For the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

1.0–1.9

Micro

I

Microearthquakes, not felt, or felt rarely. Recorded by seismographs.

2.0–2.9

Minor

I to II

Felt slightly by some people. No damage to buildings.

3.0–3.9

III to IV

Often felt by people, but very rarely causes damage. Shaking of indoor objects can be noticeable.

4.0–4.9

Light

IV to VI

Noticeable shaking of indoor objects and rattling noises. Felt by most people in the affected area. Slightly felt outside. Generally causes zero to minimal damage. Moderate to significant damage very unlikely. Some objects may fall off shelves or be knocked over.

I don't remember the seen, but 3.5 is probably the best it would get unless we see indoor objects shaken or knocked over. or evidence most everyone felt it or evidence it was felt outside.
Note that while Magnitude 3.5 is Large Building Level, Magnitude 4 is City Block Level, & for how many joules they are, Magnitude 4 is more than 5.62 times higher in AP than Magnitude 3.5.
On the lower end, Magnitude 1 is Wall Level, at only 1,995,262 joules.

Since profiles are also allowed, I figured this could act as a hub for the creation process of those.

Sounds like an idea.


Anyway, hopefully this helps.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

It does indeed help, Imaginym.

I'll work on some sandboxes. Probably gonna handle the main party if nobody else is gonna.

So we're looking at profiles;
Kris
Susie
Ralsei
Lancer
Jevil
Chaos King
C/K. Round

As for hax, everyone except Ralsei and Kris have the same soulhax all of Undertale does.

Another thing, what about Jevil's carousel? It seems to be moving as one object, maybe we could get some KE from that. Heck, even though it never blows up like the others, the final scythe in Final Chaos would probably be worth looking into.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Here's the scene where Susie stomps and shakes the room. Lancer feels it and shakes a bit.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Probably won't get above 9-B, but Kris can also blow away Rabbik's body using nothing but their breath.

I'll probably do a quick replay and see what else I can find, think we've covered the big ones though. I'll try and get Kris, Susie, and Ralsei posted in a day or two.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Susie is done and ready to be posted. Wanna ask Ant first though.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Ralsei too

Kris is gonna take a while, with all the ACTs and such.

 

[Imaginym]

I think someone else made Deltarune Sandbox profiles a while ago, but I don't remember who.

Here's the scene where Susie stomps and shakes the room. Lancer feels it and shakes a bit.

Sounds like Magnitude 2.0 to 2.9 on the Earthquake Power Chart.
Keep in mind, even Magnitude 2.0 is 63,095,730 joules.
Wall Level's maximum is 20,920,000 joules, so even Magnitude 2 would be MORE THAN 3 TIMES maximum Wall Level!
So it has a lot of potential to be an outlier.

Also, at least a few people have already made a Jevil Blog Profile.

Search

vsbattles.fandom.com

Unsure about Kris, Susie & Ralsei, but may be worth looking into, compare who made what how, etc.

 

[Eficiente]

A Deltarune page should preferably be made first.

Susie (Deltarune)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sleep Manip should be limited, hers works as well as Ralsei's, which isn't normal.

The possible Resistance to Blood Manipulation should be worded as "Monsters were stated to not have blood, though this is contradicted by Susie thinking that everybody bleeds" while linking when she asked that.

Ralsei taking that explosion should be worded in past and harming Jevil should be the reason to scale to him.

Brave Ax and Devilsknife are Optional Equipment.

That much done and the profile can be made.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Thanks for the advice! Still kinda new to creating profiles. I've never worked on a verse page, but am confident I figure it out.

Another thing, would the Susie stomping feat be an outlier?

 

[Eficiente]

I don't remember which one that is.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Here's the scene where Susie stomps and shakes the room. Lancer feels it and shakes a bit.

This one. According to Imaginym, it looks like it could get 9-A based on the earthquake chart that was linked earlier in the thread.

 

[Armorchompy]

Usually it's better not to use EQ feats unless they're actually shown to reach ranges comparable to those a normal EQ would reach. IMO it's fine as a supporting feat but if it's outliery let's avoid it then

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Does anyone with experience in creating verse pages wanna cover the Deltarune page?

 

[Imaginym]

Usually it's better not to use EQ feats unless they're actually shown to reach ranges comparable to those a normal EQ would reach. IMO it's fine as a supporting feat but if it's outliery let's avoid it then

I mean, doesn't it? The feat matches up with Wikipedia's description of a Magnitude 2 to 2.9 Earthquake that we cite for the Earthquake Power Chart:

Felt slightly by some people. No damage to buildings.

Though, I suppose you mean range for how far it affects things, right?
Also, why as a Supporting Feat? Odds are, it's higher than most of the Deltarune feats that exist to begin with.

 

[Armorchompy]

Range as in the area it affects, yes. And I meant, it would be fine as a supporting feat if other 9-A feats were there, but it's at least dozens of times higher than any other feat

 

[UltraChair]

Just asking, but would Kris and Susie falling into the Dark World be a legit feat or not?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Just asking, but would Kris and Susie falling into the Dark World be a legit feat or not?

It'll be hard if not impossible to calc the distance, and they did fall through a portal.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Kris is done, thus completing the main trio.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

All we need now is a verse page, which I think someone with experience would be better qualified to do.

Undertale Vs. Deltarune threads here I come.

 

[EnderLord8]

It'll be hard if not impossible to calc the distance, and they did fall through a portal.

I think it is possible to calculate by the time it takes them to fall. (11:41->11:48)

 

[ShockingPsychic]

@Eficiente, is a verse page required? Or are they good to go?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Jevil’s page appears to be done by Dargoo before he left, should it be fine to copy+paste what is written?

 

[ThatOneMofo]

Speaking of jevil, Shouldn't his final Devilsknife be 9-A with sheer size?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Speaking of jevil, Shouldn't his final Devilsknife be 9-A with sheer size?

I asked about that earlier in the thread. It would need a calc, both for size and a hypothetical explosion caused by it.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Given how that Jevilsknife was falling slowly, I wouldn't expect the KE to be that high, but it would still support

 

[Eficiente]

@Eficiente, is a verse page required? Or are they good to go?

They're good to go. That was just ideally.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

They're posted!

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Oh, I seem to have used the wrong justification for Ralsei's durability, I used the bike feat rather than the Jevil one. Can that be edited in, or does that need a CRT or something?

 

[Imaginym]

It'll be hard if not impossible to calc the distance, and they did fall through a portal.

Well, you MIGHT be able to estimate fall distance based on fall time, since, the longer something falls, the more it accelerates, but depending on its mass, it can only accelerate to a certain maximum speed. The "terminal velocity".
There are plenty of terminal velocity calculators online, IIRC.

So we probably COULD estimate a distance, based on how long Kris fell. Though, I don't know how valid this method is. Plus, Kris's mass isn't clear; If we knew how old they are, it'd be easier to pick what to estimate their mass as. & I assume we don't have Susie's age, either, which would be useful if she's in the same class as Kris, implying the same age.

Watch YouTube & Vimeo videos frame by frame | Watch Frame by Frame

Watch Frame by Frame allows you to watch YouTube and Vimeo videos frame by frame and in slow motion.

www.watchframebyframe.com

First frame of fall seems to be frame 017,538
By my rough approximation, the sound of the impact is heard at around frame 017,702 (Timing based on sound of impact is rather imprecise, because sound doesn't play when going frame by frame.)

Assuming we include frame 17,538 (Because the fall begins there, it's part of the fall.) but not 17,702 (Because it's when the impact from their fall ending is heard.) that's 164 + 1 frames of falling?
165 frames divided by 25 frames per second (Youtube framerate) = 6.6 seconds

Spoiler: An inherently flawed calculation based on the above

Let's assume Kris, is, I dunno, 14 years old?

Height to Weight Guide: Infants Through Teens

Charts displaying average height-to-weight ratios for children and teens, using imperial (inches/pounds) and metric (cm/kg) measurements, organized by age.

www.disabled-world.com

An average 14 year old boy weighs about 50.8 kilograms, apparently.

This calculator can tell us distance based on our 6.6 second timeframe:

Free Fall Calculator

Our free fall calculator can find the velocity of a falling object and the height it drops from.

www.omnicalculator.com

213.589 meter fall.

Calculations

In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats and determine how much energy was exerted to perform such a feat. Sometimes, the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily without the need for a calculation, but most of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'm not sure if slightly over a fifth of a kilometer (Not even cloud elevation.) qualifies as close to the ground or far from the ground, but I'll assume close to the ground because that uses a simpler formula.


In cases where an object is lifted or falls relatively close to the surface of the earth the difference in gravitational potential energy can be calculated using the simple formula

Ep = M*g*h

where

M = mass of the object in kg
g = the gravitational acceleration. For earth this is about 9.81 m/s2
h = how high the object was lifted / how far down the object fell in meter
Ep = gravitational potential energy difference in joules.

So 50.8 kg * 9.81m/s^2 * 213.589 = Yield

106,442 J (joules)
Considering Wall Level ranges from 15,000 to 20,920,000 Joules, this is solidly within it. It's about one 197th (A 196.53896th) of Maximum Wall Level, & a little over 7 times higher than Baseline/Minimum Wall Level.

That said, the above calculation is, as the spoiler revealer button says, inherently flawed; One's terminal velocity, their maximum fall speed, is based on their mass, & Kris probably isn't heavy enough to achieve the velocity the calculator assumes, which it uses to approximate distance.

To do it properly, we would need to calculate the Terminal Velocity for a falling object of KRIS'S mass. (Arbitrarily assuming a 14 year old boy, 50.8 kilograms.)
But IIRC, calculating that isn't something I'm entirely sure on how to do.

Still, point is, the result is probably lower.

It may also be notable that if Kris & Susie landed like, pressed together, their masses may have shared one impact (Although, whoever was on top when they landed when they landed would scale to less of the yield.) from the fall, which could increase the yield. (We'd still need proper terminal velocity calc-ing for the distance, though.) Assuming they landed together may be plausible, if we also assume, say, Kris fell unconscious & Susie went ahead while Kris was out.


But yeah, it does seem like there is SOME methodology to use that feat.
But on the other hand, it's a lot more questionable to scale it to them if they were knocked out for a notable amount of time as a result of the fall.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Copy+pasted what Dargoo based it, but did some minor changes such as the format and summary. How is it?

Also, Im pretty sure the Jevilsknife explosion was recalced below the + area (~4 megajoules)

 

[ShockingPsychic]

1. Where does breath attack come from?

2. Wheres the recalc?

 

[Psychomaster35]

1. Probably comes from some attacks where it looks like the projectile is coming out of Jevil’s mouth

2. In the comments by Gyro, also, the calc has yet to be evaluated

 

[Imaginym]

Bumping for interest, because this thread may still have some value.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Just a note that I still haven't finished watching the full gameplay, so its highly recommended you spoiler anything related to Chapter 2’s plot at all costs.

 

[Imaginym]

Just a note that I still haven't finished watching the full gameplay, so its highly recommended you spoiler anything related to Chapter 2’s plot at all costs.

It may be notable that this exists: https://vsbattles.com/threads/deltarune-chapter-2-discussion.124298/ POTENTIAL SPOILER CAUTION.

Also, you may have misspoke, since you said "its highly recommended you spoiler anything related to Chapter 2's plot at all costs." meaning, going by what's written, that you WANT to be spoiled, at all costs. (& also, proper grammar uses "it's" for "it is", not "its". Sorry, sorry.)

 

[Comiphorous]

This seems like a necro rn, but like i just want Spamton to have a profile so i can do Secret boss vs secret boss

 

[ShockingPsychic]

We have a new thread as well as a CRT. Spamton will be getting a profile very soon