Death Star Possible Upgrade

[ByAsura]

Recently, I did a new calculatio that would place the Death Star I, II and Starkiller Base's deflectors/Superlaser at Dwarf Star level (over 2x baseline) if accepted. The original calculatio uses the effects from Star Wars before it was updated by George Lucas, whereas this calc uses visuals from A New Hope. So I'm putting this in general discussion rather than content revision because I'm unsure whether or not the revised visuals would be secondary to the original or not, but the math itself has been accepted by DMUA.

Edit: I've done a recalc since all the fragments do not move at the same speed. This increases the result significantly (almost 36x baseline Dwarf Star level).

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'm pretty sure that Lucas intended the revised stuff as his true vision so It's fair to use it (Tis doubtlessly scales to Starkiller Base as that was intended to be superior in every way)

 

[ByAsura]

Thanks for the imput. Also, isn't the Death Star II outright more powerful? It's lager, apparently equipped with far more regular armament, takes less time to recharge, etc. They even call it more powerful in the title crawl

Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt. Little does Luke know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star. When completed, this ultimate weapon will spell certain doom for the small band of Rebels struggling to restore freedom to the galaxy...

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Yes, the Death Star II is indeed better than the Death Star I's in every way. It has a more powerful superlaser, less recharge time, significantly smoother controls and greater safety, less gunners required to operate.

I also agree with using the special edition, as that is indeed the version that is truest to Lucas's vision, according to Lucas himself.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I've never really watched the original version of the scene. What exactly are the differences between the two?

 

[ByAsura]

@Soldier Blue Thank you.

@Qawsedf The 1977 version is a large explosion done with practical effects (see here). The later one is CGI, significantly larger and spreads the fragments over a far greater radius.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ah, okay. A question though, why not just directly acale the explosion's length to the planet rather than using ang sizing to get some distance? Because from what I'm getting you're assuming the planet debris cross the distance between Aldeeran and the Death Star when that doesn't happen.

 

[ByAsura]

Not all of it is on screen and it would still give a similar result.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Still, what would the results be?

 

[ByAsura]

Using the results from a picture I can't upload for context.

Alderaan = 186 px / 12,500,000 meters

Explosion Radius (starting from center of Alderaan) = 976 px / 65591397.875 meters

The explosion started at 2:09 and reached the edge at 2:11, or 3 seconds

65591397.875 / 3 = 21863799.2917 m/s

(0.5)(5.972e+24)(21863799.2917^2) = 1.4273848e+39

The result is Dwarf Star level, and far higher than my calc (which means I'll add it), but it's also a bit inflated: A) the it these fragments probably propagated from the surface, B) these were some of the fastest, not the average, and C) my timeframe is likely a bit off. So I'll average them and see what the result is.

Btw, I've already tried Rel. KE, and it doesn't make a difference.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ah, okay. A question though, why not just directly acale the explosion's length to the planet rather than using ang sizing to get some distance? Because from what I'm getting you're assuming the planet debris cross the distance between Aldeeran and the Death Star when that doesn't happen.

This does sounds more truthful and accurate. This should at least be taken into account and be one of the ends in the calc.

I do agree the revision should be used as well though.

 

[ByAsura]

I've already added it. Since this is unanimous, would everyone be ok if I made the changes?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Soldier says it's fine, although you may want to ask another mod to comment.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok. I'd also like to know if the recalc becomes the accepted one.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I also agree with scaling directly from Alderaan itself, since we have a nice official size for the planet.

Also, this is not my call to make. You should get at least two calc group members to evaluate a calc for an upgrade such as this.

 

[Js250476]

Even the most iconic planet bust in fiction is above planet level fancy that.

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with using the new visuals and scaling it directly from Alderaan itself.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll replace combine the new method with the original then (the fragments don't move at the same speed.)

The new result is now almost 36 times baseline Dwarf Star level.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

Noice

 

[Qawsedf234]

Did you calculate the actual fireball or the singular explosive ring? Because if it's the latter then it's an unresonable high end.

 

[ByAsura]

The fragments protruding from the fireball. The ring would be extremely wanked.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

bar the obvious sidious, would anybody else scale to this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why would anyone scale to this?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

cuz sidious is supposedly stronger than the death star. and we have like, 3 or so characters on his lvl

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sidious is rated as he is based on multiple other showings and statements that have nothing to do with the Death Star.

 

[Hellbeast1]

If he truly is superior then it makes sense (Vader did say the power to destroy a planet is insignificant to the Force)

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

Sidious is rated as he is based on multiple other showings and statements that have nothing to do with the Death Star.

and? thats just another back up for his other statements. whats the problem here?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Scaling one version of Sidious to the weapon when the Death Star statement is canon to both is a stretch for the most part.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I mean not really

It's got nothing going for it in canon but it applies to Legends (that's all)

 

[ByAsura]

Well, aside from the hyperbolic "don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is nothing next to the power of the Force."

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Scaling one version of Sidious to the weapon when the Death Star statement is canon to both is a stretch for the most part.

The difference is that Legends took the statement way too literally and authors went too far in making Force users OP and broken. Also, Legends tier 4 Jedi/Sith have their current ratings for different reasons altogether.

In Canon, the statement is hyperbole. It could also be Vader attempting to make a point about how one strong in the Force can change the galaxy and its history as a whole in ways a planet-busting station can't.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah. Star Wars people are tier 4 for entirely different reasons and I disagree with scaling them to the Death Star when they have less shaky stuff to scale from.

 

[AKM sama]

In Canon, the statement is hyperbole. It could also be Vader attempting to make a point about how one strong in the Force can change the galaxy and its history as a whole in ways a planet-busting station can't.

This. Perhaps also the fact that the power of the force might be stronger overall but can anyone even harness its full potential?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

This. Perhaps also the fact that the power of the force might be stronger overall but can anyone even harness its full potential?

The Father and Anakin on Mortis are the only ones we know of in Canon.

 

[AKM sama]

I still need to watch 2 of the movies lol

 

[ByAsura]

I completely forgot to bump this.

 

[Idazmi]

Recently, I did a new calculatio that would place the Death Star I, II and Starkiller Base's deflectors/Superlaser at Dwarf Star level (over 2x baseline) if accepted. (...)

The Starkiller base didn't destroy the planets the way the Death Star 1 destroyed Alderaan:


Alderaan's Destruction - A New Hope 1080p HD


Star Wars VII - Hosnian System Destruction

Alderaan blew apart basically instantly, but the planets destroyed by Starkiller Base fragmented and shattered, and overall took far longer to fly apart: we actually see the crust floating off into space in large chunks.

 

[ByAsura]

Starkiller Base's deflector shields are scaled to the original Death Stars. It was also agreed its superior in every way.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here?

 

[ByAsura]

Basically that the Death Star I and II are '''Dwarf Star level'''. Everyone on the thread agrees with the calculation and upgrade. I'm willing to wait for Idazmi or someone else's arguments on the Starkiller Base's superlaser not scaling to the two Death Stars.