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Every now and then, I notice a LEGO profile or two originating from one of the many video games. While I can't speak for every licensed LEGO franchise under the Sun, I've always felt as though most if not all of these profiles are incredibly flawed. The issue stems from how all profiles essentially just copy and paste the LEGO Star Wars profiles, which are already incredibly flawed to begin with. Let me explain...
Wall level AP
To start, I would like to state that 9-B feats are certainly very present in the LEGO games. Hell, characters might even be destroying the same objects/builds across different franchises. However, they're incredibly casual to the point where I'm surprised nobody's glanced at feats that are obviously higher end. These linked examples are a small handful, there's definitely more I could provide and then some. Essentially, we should really look into the actual destruction feats across levels and cutscenes to decide whats worth calc'ing. Admittedly, this could be a lengthy process, but slapping a 9-B rating on all of these profiles is pretty lazy.
Building level AP
8-C ratings are usually granted to what LEGO characters can pull off when using the Force, Telekinesis, Magic, you name it. It originates from how certain abilities can affect mass structures in the games. While this has been displayed....there's no calc. There's not even a linked example on these profiles. I'm sure these feats could be 8-C, if not higher, but we have to actually put in some effort.
Subsonic combat speed and reactions
Characters are at this level due to dodging projectiles that move at the speed of an arrow. I'm pretty sure this is due to the comparability of projectile speeds across LEGO games, but this should absolutely not be used. Gunfire, electricity, and lasers are all very present projectiles in these verses that characters are often shown having to dodge/avoid/reflect. Yet the profiles opt for guesstimating that every ranged attack is the speed of an arrow.
What should we do?
Approaching the verse of the LEGO games is a bit daunting as we have to take into account some sense of continuity and scaling. Lets cover the former first regarding LEGO Star Wars, LEGO Batman, LEGO Marvel Superheroes. LEGO DC doesn't have profiles yet, but now is as good a time as any to bring them up.
DC
LEGO Batman
LEGO Batman 2: DC Superheroes
LEGO Batman 3: Beyond Gotham
LEGO DC Super-Villains
Marvel
LEGO Marvel Superheroes
LEGO Marvel Superheroes 2
I'd also like to address a small continuity mistake for the DC LEGO Universe. In LEGO Batman 2, Robin's civilian character is named as "Dick Grayson", but in the third game, he states his name is Tim Drake. Robin has the same voice actor and characterization in 2 and 3, so what's going on here? Its mostly likely a mistake to call him Dick Grayson, as in all LEGO DC games, Robin and Nightwing are explicitly different characters. To make a long story short, the Robin across the games we see fight alongside Batman (excluding Super-Villains where Damien has taken up the mantle) is Tim Drake.
VERY IMPORTANT to remember is that once we find a calc or two within a verse, we shouldn't immediately start applying it to every applicable page. For example, if Spider-Man got a feat he performed approved, that doesn't mean every single LEGO Marvel character simply scales back to him. While it is true that most LEGO characters can affect the same destructible elements as everyone is, there is not an absence of power-scaling. For example, Hulk and Thor have abilities as characters to emphasize their strength in comparison to somebody like Captain America. Or for example, Human Torch was able to get back up from an attack that left Black Widow and Hawkeye unconscious (Coulson even references the latter two's non-super powered status' when they've receiving medical attention). LEGO Batman 2 consistently displays the strength difference between Superman and Batman as they team up together. Flash and Reverse Flash's appearance always have them, unsurprisingly, moving much faster than anyone else
To play things safe, here is my proposal. The question of if a feat is applicable should be determined by story mode and the cutscenes. Whether this be a feat that happens in a level or a character scales to somebody through fighting/harming them, we look at what characters are capable of doing this. Just because you can bring a Riddler Grunt into Free Play and use him to beat up Killer Croc doesn't mean the grunt scales to Croc. Batman and Robin, who actually fought him, are a different story.
Star Wars is a bit tricky. The first two games are canon to each other given that the Complete Saga ties them together. It seems somewhat implied that LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars is connected to that original series, given it calls itself the 3rd in the franchise. The Skywalker Saga on the other hand, pretty much completely reimagines the LEGO Star Wars series with entirely different levels and portrayals (at least, it adapts scenes from the movies a lot differently than TCS). For the Star Wars profiles, I believe we should only examine The Complete Saga and maybe The Clone Wars for now. If we ever wanted to do Skywalker Saga profiles, that is up for discussion
Marvel and DC's LEGO games are arguably easier to cover in terms of scaling. While LEGO Batman and LEGO Marvel Superheroes references past interpretations of the media they're based on, they are creating entirely new stories. LEGO Star Wars sticks closer to recreating its source material, but as it lacks the incredibly expansive background lore, we cannot always look to regular Star Wars scaling as a guide. For example...
We can say that Episode III Obi-Wan and Anakin are comparable because the final level for Revenge of the Sith has a one-on-one duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin at the end. Not only are extra hearts provided for both players to play up the intensity of their duel, but the cutscenes portray the two as scuffling on rather even terms.
We cannot say Mace Windu and Sidious are comparable because the games do not adapt their fight scene from RoTS.
The same principle exists for abilities.
We can say that characters like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan possess the Jedi Mind Trick as they are shown using it in cutscenes that are meant to represent the instances where they did so in the films.
We cannot say that Anakin possesses Rage Power, as this specific ability is not emphasized in the games unlike the Disney and Legends continuities.
An Ability relevant to every series
One theme consistent in each game is building, so just about every profile should share the following:
Construction (Basic Constructions and Technological Constructs: Capable of building several contraptions of varying sizes with completely random materials, whether it be creating new pathways, or assembling working machinery)
How do we go about this?
Feat searching is vital so then calculations can be looked into. Looking at what abilities characters have is equally important. I have no real knowledge of things like LEGO Hobbit or Harry Potter so I can't vouch for anything there. For DC related profiles, we can start from the very beginning. For Star Wars and Marvel however, I suggest immediately deleting the pages that exist as they are very messy and poorly researched. From there, we can create their profiles once the adequate information we need is acquired. Different threads should be dedicated to the franchises here as to not make things cluttered. I'd personally strongly suggest starting with DC as its the most established in terms of its own story/world, but I'm up for suggestions on how we can go along in fixing things.
Thoughts?
Wall level AP
To start, I would like to state that 9-B feats are certainly very present in the LEGO games. Hell, characters might even be destroying the same objects/builds across different franchises. However, they're incredibly casual to the point where I'm surprised nobody's glanced at feats that are obviously higher end. These linked examples are a small handful, there's definitely more I could provide and then some. Essentially, we should really look into the actual destruction feats across levels and cutscenes to decide whats worth calc'ing. Admittedly, this could be a lengthy process, but slapping a 9-B rating on all of these profiles is pretty lazy.
Building level AP
8-C ratings are usually granted to what LEGO characters can pull off when using the Force, Telekinesis, Magic, you name it. It originates from how certain abilities can affect mass structures in the games. While this has been displayed....there's no calc. There's not even a linked example on these profiles. I'm sure these feats could be 8-C, if not higher, but we have to actually put in some effort.
Subsonic combat speed and reactions
Characters are at this level due to dodging projectiles that move at the speed of an arrow. I'm pretty sure this is due to the comparability of projectile speeds across LEGO games, but this should absolutely not be used. Gunfire, electricity, and lasers are all very present projectiles in these verses that characters are often shown having to dodge/avoid/reflect. Yet the profiles opt for guesstimating that every ranged attack is the speed of an arrow.
What should we do?
Approaching the verse of the LEGO games is a bit daunting as we have to take into account some sense of continuity and scaling. Lets cover the former first regarding LEGO Star Wars, LEGO Batman, LEGO Marvel Superheroes. LEGO DC doesn't have profiles yet, but now is as good a time as any to bring them up.
DC
LEGO Batman
LEGO Batman 2: DC Superheroes
LEGO Batman 3: Beyond Gotham
LEGO DC Super-Villains
Marvel
LEGO Marvel Superheroes
LEGO Marvel Superheroes 2
I'd also like to address a small continuity mistake for the DC LEGO Universe. In LEGO Batman 2, Robin's civilian character is named as "Dick Grayson", but in the third game, he states his name is Tim Drake. Robin has the same voice actor and characterization in 2 and 3, so what's going on here? Its mostly likely a mistake to call him Dick Grayson, as in all LEGO DC games, Robin and Nightwing are explicitly different characters. To make a long story short, the Robin across the games we see fight alongside Batman (excluding Super-Villains where Damien has taken up the mantle) is Tim Drake.
VERY IMPORTANT to remember is that once we find a calc or two within a verse, we shouldn't immediately start applying it to every applicable page. For example, if Spider-Man got a feat he performed approved, that doesn't mean every single LEGO Marvel character simply scales back to him. While it is true that most LEGO characters can affect the same destructible elements as everyone is, there is not an absence of power-scaling. For example, Hulk and Thor have abilities as characters to emphasize their strength in comparison to somebody like Captain America. Or for example, Human Torch was able to get back up from an attack that left Black Widow and Hawkeye unconscious (Coulson even references the latter two's non-super powered status' when they've receiving medical attention). LEGO Batman 2 consistently displays the strength difference between Superman and Batman as they team up together. Flash and Reverse Flash's appearance always have them, unsurprisingly, moving much faster than anyone else
To play things safe, here is my proposal. The question of if a feat is applicable should be determined by story mode and the cutscenes. Whether this be a feat that happens in a level or a character scales to somebody through fighting/harming them, we look at what characters are capable of doing this. Just because you can bring a Riddler Grunt into Free Play and use him to beat up Killer Croc doesn't mean the grunt scales to Croc. Batman and Robin, who actually fought him, are a different story.
Star Wars is a bit tricky. The first two games are canon to each other given that the Complete Saga ties them together. It seems somewhat implied that LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars is connected to that original series, given it calls itself the 3rd in the franchise. The Skywalker Saga on the other hand, pretty much completely reimagines the LEGO Star Wars series with entirely different levels and portrayals (at least, it adapts scenes from the movies a lot differently than TCS). For the Star Wars profiles, I believe we should only examine The Complete Saga and maybe The Clone Wars for now. If we ever wanted to do Skywalker Saga profiles, that is up for discussion
Marvel and DC's LEGO games are arguably easier to cover in terms of scaling. While LEGO Batman and LEGO Marvel Superheroes references past interpretations of the media they're based on, they are creating entirely new stories. LEGO Star Wars sticks closer to recreating its source material, but as it lacks the incredibly expansive background lore, we cannot always look to regular Star Wars scaling as a guide. For example...
We can say that Episode III Obi-Wan and Anakin are comparable because the final level for Revenge of the Sith has a one-on-one duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin at the end. Not only are extra hearts provided for both players to play up the intensity of their duel, but the cutscenes portray the two as scuffling on rather even terms.
We cannot say Mace Windu and Sidious are comparable because the games do not adapt their fight scene from RoTS.
The same principle exists for abilities.
We can say that characters like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan possess the Jedi Mind Trick as they are shown using it in cutscenes that are meant to represent the instances where they did so in the films.
We cannot say that Anakin possesses Rage Power, as this specific ability is not emphasized in the games unlike the Disney and Legends continuities.
An Ability relevant to every series
One theme consistent in each game is building, so just about every profile should share the following:
Construction (Basic Constructions and Technological Constructs: Capable of building several contraptions of varying sizes with completely random materials, whether it be creating new pathways, or assembling working machinery)
How do we go about this?
Feat searching is vital so then calculations can be looked into. Looking at what abilities characters have is equally important. I have no real knowledge of things like LEGO Hobbit or Harry Potter so I can't vouch for anything there. For DC related profiles, we can start from the very beginning. For Star Wars and Marvel however, I suggest immediately deleting the pages that exist as they are very messy and poorly researched. From there, we can create their profiles once the adequate information we need is acquired. Different threads should be dedicated to the franchises here as to not make things cluttered. I'd personally strongly suggest starting with DC as its the most established in terms of its own story/world, but I'm up for suggestions on how we can go along in fixing things.
Thoughts?
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