DC Profile Clean-up and Revisions Part 3

[Elizio33]

How so? It is apparently still referred to as 1-A.

Never mind then

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

It depends on the type. See our current Transduality page.

 

[Sera_EX]

I have all kinds of problems with that page as it is, to be honest (more over complication of otherwise simple fiction is becoming a huge problem here), but that is a discussion for later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[JackJoyce]

Sandman31 said High-Godly should be removed from Captain Adam

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Where did he say that?

 

[JackJoyce]

Here

 

[Antvasima]

I have updated the page.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Would the New Gods scale to such changes like the Low 1-C stuff ?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably not, unless we get this clearly defined.

 

[Elizio33]

Would the New Gods scale to such changes like the Low 1-C stuff ?

Why the New Gods should upgrade to Low 1-C? I thought they are five dimensional entities correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

In Pre-Crisis Superman's 'Sword of Superman' key's Attack Potency description (man, that clause was a mouthful), it says "Unknow (Far more powerful than before)".

If it is far more powerful than before, shouldn't it be considered at least Universal+?

 

[Antvasima]

No, there is an inherent contradiction, as this story treated a Low 2-C Superman as far more powerful than usual, even though he had displayed similar raw power demonstrations without it.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Isn't it possible to be above the baseline for Low 2-C to begin with?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but we do not know for certain how powerful Superman was supposed to be, so unknown is best.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

But you said the story treated the feat as Low 2-C, and then Superman himself is also Low 2-C, so whether or not it's viewed as baseline or above baseline, then either way it is Low 2-C at the end of the day, right?

We may not be sure exactly where in Low 2-C, but the tier itself is guaranteed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he seemed to become one with time and space, but we do not really know more than that without guesswork.

 

[AndrewBennet]

https://www.newsarama.com/44237-jus...tlk-s-future-future-league-and-that-trap.html

The white Superman has pre crisis lvl of powers according to scott snyder and also about perpetua


But one of the things that's been great about it too has been getting to know Jorge. And he started telling me ideas he had for stories that he wanted to do down the line, wherever he could in different arcs, but he didn't know where they fit.

The Superman part of this story is actually built off one of his ideas. I was going to put Superman in kind of a cage. But when he told me this idea he had for a universe that was created specifically to entrap Superman by a super-character who would have Superman's abilities to move suns and move planets and create a perfect environment to keep him, I knew that was right.


You brought up Perpetua, and fans got a chance to see her in the_Justice League Annual_#1. Who came up with her design?

It was Jim Cheung and Jorge Jimenez. Jim Cheung did the original sketches and Jorge Jimenez took it to a whole new level when he came in and designed her based on some of the original descriptions. It's really a team effort. When you see her, her braids and head almost looks like DNA with the double helix structure around her ears, neck and eyes, and around her fingers; universes are formed and destroyed if you look closely. https://www.cbr.com/scott-snyder-justice-league-lex-luthor-martian-manhunter-interview/3/ It was Jim Cheung and Jorge Jimenez. Jim Cheung did the original sketches and Jorge Jimenez took it to a whole new level when he came in and designed her based on some of the original descriptions. It's really a team effort. When you see her, her braids and head almost looks like DNA with the double helix structure around her ears, neck and eyes, and around her fingers; universes are formed and destroyed if you look closely. To me, she screams "powerful, Celestial goddess." One of the things I've said is we don't want Perpetua to feel like just a regular evil character. She's got a really interesting, deep point of view from my standpoint, and that always makes the best villains. She really believes the universe should have been built a different way, and for reasons I think will appeal to people as well.

 

[Alonik]

6th dimension thing from new gods vol 4 which was written by another writer which was later retconned by John bryne in fourth world storyline . Where he only refers to 28 known dimensions and infinite dimensions stuff through vortex of space and time . We can also see takion going past the beyond the known dimensions of the universe and beyond to reach the Source where he referred it as boundless and timeless. Darkseid later refers to metron travelling through 28 dimensions for his quest for knowledge. Its a desperate pathetic attempt to downplay Dc verse
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YeS6M57C...EMxHLC2TYQtVOwijYR2QWwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO017.jpg https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X-LaXv7d...R3fW1ZjiYFIt17vpH0bxOACHMYCw/s1600/RCO006.jpg

https://***************.to/Comic/Jack-Kirby-s-Fourth-World-1997/Issue-2?id=52192

Read the whole arc from here

There's nothing here talking about higher dimensions. You're just talking about a place that has no place (space). If you don't have space, you don't have higher dimensions.

This vortex of space time is described as "There are no words of human language, which can encompass this place-which-is-not-a-place, this time-which-is-not-a-time"

And in the other it just says that it is a plan beyond known dimensions, which also does not validate at any time that metron quote is about higher dimensions.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Vertigo Question: Should I mention the Timothy Hunter stuff ... Or wait ? The reason why is because not only does he need heavy revision, and he is a important DC character , but Sandman stated before he could be High 1-B via his appearance on DC: Book of Magic and his Gate feat , but the thread never really went anywhere. I did argue 1-A via scaling to ththe void, but he (Sandman) & I were not sure if he should scale to it. Is it okay to bring the stuff here so that other knowledgable members can evaluate it ?

 

[Alonik]

@The 2nd Existential Seed

Well I think it would be very nice to argue about Timothy (the other) affecting death of the endless, but I think we should also remember in new 52 that the books of magic could destroy the entire existence (all creation), and being pillars of existence.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I see... I will gather the scans then. It does prove that the Books of Magic are blatantly high end and not just 2-B in scope, which is actualy him at his weakest feats other than Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

I see no mentions of Pre-Crisis universal power levels for Superman.

 

[AndrewBennet]

I won't be arguing with a guy who uses twitter statements from a clueless writer to downplay the characters

 

[Antvasima]

I won't be arguing with a guy who uses twitter statements from a clueless writer to downplay the characters

?

 

[Driger-God]

Someone can explain one thing?
When someone said "the existence is composed for a number infinite of universes and dimensions(higher or bellow)".
Why some these dimension is a place with infinite dimensional?
Each dimension could't be 5D? Each dimension 5D is a higher dimension.

I don't see the declaration of a place with "Infinite Spatial Dimension", but the existence of infinites dimensions(with the same level), and this is different.

 

[Hykuu]

??????

 

[Alonik]

@Hykuu

He's talking about it. And this here too.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Timothy Massive Revisions (Part 1 - Consistency)

Canoncity & Debunks of Previous Logic used against the upgrade

Before I attempt to scale the Realms to Timothy Hunter... Let me go over the canonicity of the original Books of Magic

• Elaine Belloc was directly referenced within the lore, as well as several Lucifer Comic specific references I don't need to name
• This means that the realms in "Books of Magic" are comparable to their "Lucifer" counterparts ? This is important as the Silver City, Endless' Realms, Heaven and Hell (All established 1-A realms from the Lucifer storyline) was affected by Timothy Hunter's powers.

Closing the Void or Realm =/= Scaling to the Void or Realm

• With all due respect to the knowledgable member for DC ... I consider that statement from him a double standard... As he stated that the Angels doing the exact same thing was a 1-A feat not too long beforehand. I won't say who this is... For his secrecy unless he wants to discuss it directly... But those who were in that discussion may recognize who stated this.
• Plus... Unless specifically contradicted by context, the Void should be affected by all realms being affected, especially considering Timothy has been to that realm prior and would know it is being affected due to being an Opener.

• Unlike Lucifer comic showing it, it wouldn't be contraditory unless Books of Magic directly implied the Void wasn't affected by what The Other did, and based on the context of it and how wide reaching it was (to the point even the Endless' Realms and the Silver City was affected)... Increases the doubt it wasn't affected if not for context.

An Outlier for Him

• Even though he's consistently stated as the strongest Mage of his Modern Age ... And even his most low end feats in the series are far above the strongest mages seen prior to Timothy's introduction ?
• Even in the newest Sandman Universe title, they called Timothy the Ender of the Universe (Which Universe always meant "All of Creation / High 1-B to 1-A) when he's at his weakest in this point of the story ... And the most powerful Mage period in the history of Sandman / Books of Magic / Lucifer ... Which means he's likely stronger than FP Merlin (whose 1-A via scaling to Logos/Voice of God and being the channeler of it's magic):

This was to merely prove that him being higher than his current tier wouldn't be an outlier considering the massive hype for what he accomplished. and what he could be capable of. I'll post the Gate Feats first, then the 'Pieces of Tim' Feats, then his power as Merlin , and proposed keys for his various power-ups prior to Sandman Universe... Which is likely stronger than he ever was prior.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. Timothy Hunter (Massive Revision) - Part 2: The Pieces & The Gates

Part 1 - The Pieces: Here is where Context comes into play for the most part. I'm attempting to get rid of the possibility that Tier 7 is his lowest lowball.... When that is likely one of the most insanely lowballed attempts at utilizing his power.

• Firstly, it was stated that an Opener has the ability to create worlds by taking a piece of their power / soul and placing it int hat reality. Meaning, it IS NOT his power as Merlin doing this... It's his power as merely being an Opener.

• This was stated yet again in another part of the Books of Magic Series

• This was stated again in a rather morbid way

• Then we find out that each of these pieces maintains their home reality. Without it... Everything in it collapses... Also extremely casually Low 2-C via surviving the world's busting without a scratch on him [Also possible 4th Wall Awareness]:

• Stated that there were thousands of worlds to endless number destroyed... Meaning there were at least one thousand pieces to endless pieces of Timothy's:

Part 2 - The Gates

• States Directly that not only losing the pieces has severely weakened his power, but even with that he can stil reverse what The Other has done (Which means he still scales to the Gates and Great Reality Storm at his weakest point of power):

• Every realm was affected, including the likes of Heaven , Hell , Endless' Realm, and every other Realm

• Stated that his Other Self was indeed responsible:

• A Storm blowing through all the Realms

• Confirmation that the Rulers of those Realms (including the Endless) did not have the power to reverse it and did it despite the Rightful Lords of those Realms wanted

• The Reality Storm even overwhelmed something that according directly to dialogue Death of the Endless couldn't touch or overwhelm... SO... (I'll get the scan in a moment and add it to this, but it basically proves the Great Reality Storm is essentially Death of the Endless level, and the fact that Timothy can reverse said gates with a facet of his power means he scales abruptly to them
• Even the Average Opener has the power to control Access to every Realm

That's the end of the "Gates & Pieces" Segment,. I'll move onto the "Merlin" Segment.... His most powerful incarnation and IMHO the most blatantly 1-A version of him.

 

[Hykuu]

wait why are we assuming every interpretation of the endless is 1-A?

They vary completely in tier and between their avatars, at some points they are aspects of the multiverse and bound by it and at other times they literally view it as fiction.

Also, The Logoz only created a Infinite D Multiverse in that comic, you can't interwine old vertigo comics to the 2000s spectre hal run which fledged on the Logoz a bit, otherwise, I am fine with High 1-B, just not 1-A.

 

[Hykuu]

@Hykuu
He's talking about it. And this here too.

I figured that much out, just not what he's trying to prove or what he even is saying in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

Hykuu makes a good point about the Endless.

What do the other staff members here think?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I was using the Vertigo versions for the above ... But I agree we should have two keys for the different versions of Endless: One Vertigo , the other DC

 

[Hykuu]

I was using the Vertigo versions for the above ... But I agree we should have two keys for the different versions of Endless: One Vertigo , the other DC

They are inconsistent 'within' vertigo due to the varying powers of the avatars and how they function being thrown around left and right.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

In the Rebirth run, Deathstroke's Promethium sword has been consistently be considered able to absorb most forms of energy and cut through anything, including Aquaman's Trident and Superman's skin.

I don't know if his Post-Crisis profile includes Rebirth, but if it does, should we add 'energy absorption with his sword and something similar to attack potency like with Wolverine's profile?

"(However, his adamantium claws have Durability Negation against up to Solar System level opponents [He has successfully stabbed the Hulk, Thor, and Thanos])"

 

[Hellbeast1]

I feel Stroke's sword is better as Dura Negation itself but I agree (also we need to calm some feats for the street tiers)

 

[Antvasima]

Durability negation up to 4-B is fine for the sword, but it is best if we keep the post-Crisis and post-Flashpoint profiles separate. They do not have identical histories.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I mean I'd suggest keys since PC abd Rebirth have merged somewhat but hey

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that keys could work.