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I'm not so sure spatial dimensions as this site defines them truly applies here. Snyder's definition of the 5th Dimension is pure imagination, and while that is similar to how it's been described in the past it's not the same as how Morrison for example showcased it, as a literal higher spatial dimension.
Also, I really like how Snyder is tying together the different origins of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor.
Also, I really like how Snyder is tying together the different origins of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor.
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And since when does the fifth dimension not be dimensional axis? A volume of ownership for the fifth axis was aggregated, nothing interrupts the fifth axis to be a higher dimension only because of a property of it.
That is, DC Comics works with:
That is, DC Comics works with:
- Width
- Height
- Depth
- Time
- Imaginatio
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The Fifth Dimension isn't being portrayed like that though, it doesn't conform to our real-world ideas of dimensions.
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In fact, the fifth dimension is treated like this.
And what would be the fifth dimension in the our real world? No one literally knows what it is, we only agree in the most sensible way that obviously it is an axis of space superior to the space-time of general relativity.
5D from DC Comics to date continues to be a higher dimension, which 3D beings can't to interact.
And the main point, no matter what property the DC gives to the fifth dimension, that's not our world, it's a comic book. As long as this dimension continues to be the imaginary axis of their spatial geometry, it continues to be 5D. What this scan leaves above makes it very clear.
And what would be the fifth dimension in the our real world? No one literally knows what it is, we only agree in the most sensible way that obviously it is an axis of space superior to the space-time of general relativity.
5D from DC Comics to date continues to be a higher dimension, which 3D beings can't to interact.
And the main point, no matter what property the DC gives to the fifth dimension, that's not our world, it's a comic book. As long as this dimension continues to be the imaginary axis of their spatial geometry, it continues to be 5D. What this scan leaves above makes it very clear.
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And the very next page has Mxyz saying imagination is the energy that flows between realms. It's not exactly a quantifiable real-world dimension, even if Snyder uses some of the same terminology.
My main problem with your desire to focus exclusively on Snyder's cosmology and leave everything else out is that is invalidates so many other stories that are still canon according to DC. Especially since Snyder's treatment of dimensionality is murky.
My main problem with your desire to focus exclusively on Snyder's cosmology and leave everything else out is that is invalidates so many other stories that are still canon according to DC. Especially since Snyder's treatment of dimensionality is murky.
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In any case, I've seen numerous threads about Snyder's cosmology in the past few weeks and at this point I feel like it's best to just get a set-in-stone judgment on the matter from Ant and Matthew. I think Matthew said he was going to make a definitive cosmology blog but I don't know when that'll be done.
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Maybe i'm wrong to think this but since the multiverse has innumerable dimensions, should we scale the sixth dimension to 1-B because it is beyond the monitor sphere. After all correct me if i'm wrong but most of snyder's work is based on morrison' work and the monitor sphere was supposed to be the highest plabe of existence until the sixth dimension..
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well, from the moment, the map of multiversity argue that had fifth dimensional multiverse, bleedspace is the space that pass the monitor sphere and source wall, and have four bulk that are drilled by the monitor.
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We must follow what is written in the comics, and not wank the words that are in the comic with that of another writer of a different time. Besides that innumerable is totally ambiguous and very semantic, I can use every finger of my hand to tell something, and after that pass of 5 is something innumerable to her. It's literally a giant semantics and trying to set either a high or small number for that, it's a big wank.
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I seriously hope you're being sarcastic when you say innumerable should be considered anything greater than 10...
"We must follow what is written in the comics, and not wank the words that are in the comic with that of another writer of a different time."
This is the exact opposite of how comics should be treated. The nature of the medium means true consistency is impossible. The logical conclusion of your proposal is that, for example, Rebirth Superman's tiering should change with each new writer's depiction of him. To be perfectly frank, it's extremely short-sighted and reductionist. The truth is that, since DC considers everything canon to the wider Multiverse, Snyder's depiction is simply outnumbered by other author's ideas.
"We must follow what is written in the comics, and not wank the words that are in the comic with that of another writer of a different time."
This is the exact opposite of how comics should be treated. The nature of the medium means true consistency is impossible. The logical conclusion of your proposal is that, for example, Rebirth Superman's tiering should change with each new writer's depiction of him. To be perfectly frank, it's extremely short-sighted and reductionist. The truth is that, since DC considers everything canon to the wider Multiverse, Snyder's depiction is simply outnumbered by other author's ideas.
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@PrinceOfTheMorning
Since when did I say that? You misinterpret my line.
I said we shouldn't mix writers ' speeches, I never said an establishment is irrelevant to another. If we seek consistency of mentions, we will have to map of Multiversity treats the Bleedspace as 5D and is the entirety of the multiverse.
And DC comics itself uses this map as a rule, meaning its consistency is worth more than the publisher chose on its own website?
About innumerable, it is a matter of semantics and how to use the word, it is totally open to millions of interpretations, it is up to you to prove that you speak of an extremely large number. And not small:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/innumerable
Since when did I say that? You misinterpret my line.
I said we shouldn't mix writers ' speeches, I never said an establishment is irrelevant to another. If we seek consistency of mentions, we will have to map of Multiversity treats the Bleedspace as 5D and is the entirety of the multiverse.
And DC comics itself uses this map as a rule, meaning its consistency is worth more than the publisher chose on its own website?
About innumerable, it is a matter of semantics and how to use the word, it is totally open to millions of interpretations, it is up to you to prove that you speak of an extremely large number. And not small:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/innumerable
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The Bleed is contained within the Orrery and has always been defined as the space between timelines/parallel universes. If you paid attention to your own image you would see that since the Monitors have to drill into the Orrery to get to the Bleed, the Bleed is contained in the Orrery.
"And DC comics itself uses this map as a rule, meaning its consistency is worth more than the publisher chose on its own website?"
I guess I agree, and as I just showed above with your own image the Bleed is contained in the Orrery and is not, in fact, the entirety of the multiverse.
As for innumerable, the main Merriam-Webster definitions are "too many to be counted" and "countless." It's common sense that the author is using the commonly understood meaning and not some random interpretation to fit your personal belief.
"And DC comics itself uses this map as a rule, meaning its consistency is worth more than the publisher chose on its own website?"
I guess I agree, and as I just showed above with your own image the Bleed is contained in the Orrery and is not, in fact, the entirety of the multiverse.
As for innumerable, the main Merriam-Webster definitions are "too many to be counted" and "countless." It's common sense that the author is using the commonly understood meaning and not some random interpretation to fit your personal belief.
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Within the all-enclosing Bulk, otherwise known as Bleed-Space. Four Bleed Siphons Have been drilled in FROM the monitor sphere TO THE Orrery, to permit harvest of the miracle Ultramenstruum fluid.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/08/18/the-map-of-the-multiverse
It has a great design showing that the bleedspace is beyond creation, and on the map shows the 4 paths that the monitors stuck in this red Space (bleed) beyond the Source Wall.
If you need to draw, here I marked all the channels with arrows.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/08/18/the-map-of-the-multiverse
It has a great design showing that the bleedspace is beyond creation, and on the map shows the 4 paths that the monitors stuck in this red Space (bleed) beyond the Source Wall.
If you need to draw, here I marked all the channels with arrows.
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I genuinely don't understand how you're not seeing the problem with what you're saying. Your interpretation is self-contradictory. The Ultramenstruum fluid is pure Bleed substance. The Monitors harvested it by drilling down into the Orrery so they could access the Bleed. The Bleedspace, or Bulk, is all-encompassing from the perspective of all universes within the Orrery. If "all-encompassing" meant "encompassing the Monitor Sphere" as well, then the drills wouldn't be needed in the first place. The fact that the Monitors are also able to penetrate the Source Wall isn't relevant to the discussion.
In any case, if you still don't get it after the above paragraph then there's nothing else I can say because I don't know how to explain it more clearly. Like Ant said above, try to get Matthew here to make a judgment call on the whole shebang.
In any case, if you still don't get it after the above paragraph then there's nothing else I can say because I don't know how to explain it more clearly. Like Ant said above, try to get Matthew here to make a judgment call on the whole shebang.
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Since when did I say that bleed wasn't the Ultramenstruum? Lol.
See my comment again, and I literally just copied and pasted what is written in the map information, your Word does not deny what is written on the map about the > > > Bleedspace < < < < All the Multiverse as it is left clear here:
And it's totally relevant, which is irrelevant is your achism on top of what is written on the scan itself "Four Bleed Siphons Have been drilled in FROM the monitor sphere TO THE Orrery"
ad ignorantiam will not refute my point.
See my comment again, and I literally just copied and pasted what is written in the map information, your Word does not deny what is written on the map about the > > > Bleedspace < < < < All the Multiverse as it is left clear here:
And it's totally relevant, which is irrelevant is your achism on top of what is written on the scan itself "Four Bleed Siphons Have been drilled in FROM the monitor sphere TO THE Orrery"
ad ignorantiam will not refute my point.
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I mean no disrespect by this, but please at least try to write in an understandable manner.
From what I think I've been able to make out from your comments, you're not reading the map and the info boxes correctly.
From what I think I've been able to make out from your comments, you're not reading the map and the info boxes correctly.
- Look at the title of the box you just linked. It says "Orrery of Worlds." That suggests that whatever is in the box refers to the Orrery of Worlds.
- Now let's look at the text in the box. The Bleedspace encloses the brane universes. "All-encompassing" is in reference to the stuff within the Orrery. The Monitors drilled down from the Monitor Sphere to the Orrery to harvest bleed fluid. Ergo, the bleed fluid is not "all-encompassing" the Monitor Sphere.
- You seem to be under the impression that the Bleed is everything outside the DC Multiverse, outside the Source Wall. But look at the Source Wall box. It states "Beyond lies only Monitor-Mind, The Source, and the Unknowable." No mention of the Bleed. Where is the Bleed mentioned? Look back up at Step 2. It's located within the Orrery. Where is the Orrery? According to the map it is everything within the Speed Force Wall, NOT everything within the wider DC Multiverse.
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"Cuts out everything that is said?" You're legitimately starting to piss me off because you are '''literally''' ignoring my entire comment above. The Bleed siphons are literally part of the argument why your interpretation makes no sense. And biased? Don't give me that nonsense. I'm not the one that's purposely ignoring the context of my own images.
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Concession accepted buddy.
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Imagine wanting to downgrade all of DC to 5D.
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Even Vertigo? 
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Yes. Whist dismissing every other higher statement as "flowery". The bias to this single story from 2019 simply because it would downgrade all of DC when going by dimensional tiering (Which isn't going to stick around too long) is hardly subtle.
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After reading the arguments, 5D downgrade makes no sense.
