DC Cosmology becomes even more messy

[Weaver261]

This is a discussion thread to talk about the changes that Flash new comics bring into the DC Cosmology. And to explore the ideas to how are we gonna treat these new statements.

Everything started with Flash 2023 comic which introduced the new beings and new plane of existences revolving around speedsters and stillness.

Barry, Mr. Terrific and a group of scientist are trying to map the multiverse model into n-dimensional structure. They also have an extra-dimensional alien thing that emnate itself into infinite regressions.

Wally started gaining an ability to stay out of everything including physics, distance, vibration, time and even story by crossing different plane of existences.
According to Mr.Terrific's information, he has been shifting throught different cosmological dimensions ranging from 10 to 26.
Because of that his view on the world started to change when he found the gallery of moment.

These plane of existences are the different angels of the same universe.
These dimensions seem folded and the gallery of moment exists beyond that.
Gallery of moment is beneath time and space and exists as conceptual realm and made up of imaginary math. And it can take Wally instantly to different people he knows regardless of distance.

There's differnet kind of plane of existences. Realm of pure math. Realm that manage the concepts of the reality like gravity, light and space...etc with time management realm being more higher than that.

Everything revolves around The stillness. Stillness traversed the cosmo before time exists. Now they are searching a class of higher cosmic entity (higher even then Stillness) called Arc angel.
Stillness said that they are investigating something about the source of Speed Force called Deep Change which is emanated from the Source. And the Linear Bureau think that speedsters are doing that without knowing themselves. Just using speedforce can destory a plane of existence where people emotions exist. Because of that people become numb to emotions.

Linear bureau said they receieved a revelation from Arc Angel and it said to kill all speedsters. But Wally west's son future version works for Bureau and he doesn't want to kill all speedsters. So, he kidnaps them. He described Arc angel as conscious hypergeometries, cosmological abstraction so complex that it becomes irreducibly simple. Beings that exist on a curve where infinity overlaps with zero. Arc angel also gave folded man the control of all euclidean space.

To be honest, I don't really know how to scale these new stuffs at all. I would like to hear ideas regarding this content. As far as I know, there's no discussion about new Flash comic even though it was released a while ago.

 

[Weaver261]

Bump

 

[Hasty12345]

these DC authors are a bunch of yappers

 

[Weaver261]

These new statements are really defying the tiering system we've now (may be I'm not knowledgable enough)

 

[Xearsay]

It’s all taking place in the Speed Force so it scales to the Speed Force. It’s not hard to understand or messy at all.

 

[Deagonx]

According to Mr.Terrific's information, he has been shifting throught different cosmological dimensions ranging from 10 to 26.

This says 10-26 frequencies.

To be honest, I don't really know how to scale these new stuffs at all. I would like to hear ideas regarding this content.

To be honest none of this impacts scaling very much given how vague most of it is. There might be some concept manip stuff in the later scans but it depends on what happens in the story.

 

[Weaver261]

To be honest none of this impacts scaling very much given how vague most of it is. There might be some concept manip stuff in the later scans but it depends on what happens in the story.

What we have in current DC Cosmology is just six dimensions. But according to the latest flash run, there're tons of dimensions before Sphere of the gods. In normal higher dimensions, the higher you go, the more abstract it becomes. But in this case it's the other way round. Concept exists beneath time and space and the folds of geometry probably. And these dimensions are probably string dimensions. That's why I said 10-26 frequencies to dimensions. First, according to folded man, there's no more fold to turn before gallery of moment. In string dimensions, we can have 6, 10 or 26 dimensions which correspond with the frequencies. One thing I don't understand is why the lower dimensions can have abstraction instead of higher extra-dimensions.

 

[Chariot190]

Read this as DB and almost reenacted the end of MGS4

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Speed Force being 1-A is coming soon!

 

[RenderGK]

oh

 

[Weaver261]

Arc Angels are stated as nth dimensional omnivalent beings. Wally is gonna get a higher power beyond infinity. So, I think Wally West 1-A is happening soon

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Not that we get any clarification. They said the Gallery was a gift of theirs to Wally. So yeah, 1-A is definitely possible.

 

[Weaver261]

I think it clarify a lot. The gallery is stated to be made of imaginary math and it's conceptual. I didn't know what "Imaginary math" means before but It's clear now that Wade west can shape the dimensions and reality as data (basically math with binary numbers). Arc Angle is capable of creating a realm which has no properties of reality hence conceptual. Also the source of speed force is already stated to be emanated from something beyond the source wall (possibly the source)
I think Arc Angle is gonna try to bring wally beyond the source wall.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I think it clarify a lot. The gallery is stated to be made of imaginary math and it's conceptual. I didn't know what "Imaginary math" means before but It's clear now that Wade west can shape the dimensions and reality as data (basically math with binary numbers). Arc Angle is capable of creating a realm which has no properties of reality hence conceptual. Also the source of speed force is already stated to be emanated from something beyond the source wall (possibly the source)
I think Arc Angle is gonna try to bring wally beyond the source wall.

Most likely, though it's interesting if we have “Arc Angles” then “God/Father” figure should soon follow and I believe that's the “beyond infinity” aspect we get.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Where would is scale under the new system?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Where would is scale under the new system?

The Speedforce will be 1-A.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

The Speedforce will be 1-A.

DC fans after tiering system revisions

 

[RigelBR7]

Chad, i agree.

 

[Gasper]

What we have in current DC Cosmology is just six dimensions. But according to the latest flash run, there're tons of dimensions before Sphere of the gods. In normal higher dimensions, the higher you go, the more abstract it becomes. But in this case it's the other way round. Concept exists beneath time and space and the folds of geometry probably. And these dimensions are probably string dimensions. That's why I said 10-26 frequencies to dimensions. First, according to folded man, there's no more fold to turn before gallery of moment. In string dimensions, we can have 6, 10 or 26 dimensions which correspond with the frequencies. One thing I don't understand is why the lower dimensions can have abstraction instead of higher extra-dimensions.

Dimensions need R>F statements to be 1-A, I don't see anything like that being stated here.
We also don't know what these dimensions are. They don't seem like plains of existence to me, just normal geometrical dimensions so you can't scale them to an actual higher dimensions in DC.

 

[Weaver261]

Dimensions need R>F statements to be 1-A, I don't see anything like that being stated here.
We also don't know what these dimensions are. They don't seem like plains of existence to me, just normal geometrical dimensions so you can't scale them to an actual higher dimensions in DC.

Idk what point you're trying to make here. I'm just saying it's weird how these dimensions behave.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

There certainly not R>F that's for sure.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Flash #11 just drops and claims everything is made of “Time.” All the forces in the Multiverse: Speed, Sage, Strength and to destroy Time is to make all things connected.

 

[Weaver261]

Flash #11 just drops and claims everything is made of “Time.” All the forces in the Multiverse: Speed, Sage, Strength and to destroy Time is to make all things connected.

So, it's said that every forces of multiverse are apart of one big source or entity from beyond the source wall that's alive. The supreme being dreams the time. It peers into the lives of lower planes by exchanging with the power. These lower planes are emanated endlessly from a higher plane. Stillness are emanation of Arc Angels. That entity in questions is incomprehensible even to Arc Angels. Shessh, the amount of lore dump in this issue is crazy.

 

[Elizio33]

Following thus thread, let's continue the discussion about the Gallery of Moments, Speed Force and Arc Angles here, and whether or not they should be 1-A or Low 1-A.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Following thus thread, let's continue the discussion about the Gallery of Moments, Speed Force and Arc Angles here, and whether or not they should be 1-A here.

Just to note, most of, if not all the reasoning for 1-A comes from that. However, I rather not discuss it further. I said all there needs to be said.

 

[Weaver261]

I want to point out a few things in @NHTkenshin2 's proposal here.

In #11, we get this line from a Linear Man, who tells Barry that all forces (Speed, Still, Sphere of Gods, ect.) are ultimately made out of one substance: Time.

While it's not wrong to say like that, they are more like a part of something bigger insteading of being made out of.

But again in my opinion, the Garden, all things considered, isn't even something that extends beyond a single Universe, it's status as the lowest frequency of vibration within the Universe just makes it a sort-of conceptual form of a Universe without space or time. We directly see things that reference that idea as Wally sees Irey as a fixed statue within the Garden, implying that the Garden is the Universe, just at a conceptual, still level.

Obviously, I am not saying that a single world within the Orrery of Worlds is 1-A, since this isn't the world itself per se, its the world stripped to no-space and no-time.

Again what you're saying is not much wrong. But in a sense, you're wrong. Because wally can connect to everywhere from there.

Nothing in existence would stop you from going to her

So that doesn't make sense to say "Garden doesn't extend beyond a single Universe". Garden is made up of imaginary math according to the shaper who can shape dimensions using speed force as a tool hence it's conceptual. Garden is made up of something that isn't reality. You can say like "if what you are saying is true, then the garden is lower than a single unierse". But no, since the garden can get you anywhere, deeper than space and time, conceptual, it's pretty much good enough. If I've to put in Titania's words

Worlds like this are worlds of human imagination. Their reality or lack of reality is not important. What's important is they are there. These worlds provide an alternative. provide an escape. provide a threat. provide a dream and power. provide refuge and pain. They give your world meaning. They do not exist and thus they are all that matters

This is obviously unrelated to current flash run but I think this would help.

 

[Weaver261]

Flash 2023 issue 12 is out! And the supreme being is not shown directly yet. Curved Corner is the source wall as I expected. Deep change is likely Overvoid since the last page shows a white space and it's outside of the source wall. For more clear evidences, we have to wait for next issue.

 

[Elizio33]

Flash 2023 issue 12 is out! And the supreme being is not shown directly yet. Curved Corner is the source wall as I expected. Deep change is likely Overvoid since the last page shows a white space and it's outside of the source wall. For more clear evidences, we have to wait for next issue.

good, I have to read this series, but did we learn anything new or relevant in the last issue?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

good, I have to read this series, but did we learn anything new or relevant in the last issue?

Source = Overvoid.

 

[Elizio33]

Source = Overvoid.

Well. It was something that had been very obvious for a long time, but what about the Gallery of Moments? Is this place within Creation? Just a conceptual plane beyond space and time? Or it is really beyond the Source Wall?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well. It was something that had been very obvious for a long time, but what about the Gallery of Moments? Is this place within Creation? Just a conceptual plane beyond space and time? Or it is really beyond the Source Wall?

Personally, I still say it's not bound to Creation. The Source Wall is the highest frequency as opposed to the Gallery being the lowest. Doesn't change the fact the Speed Force predates the Multiverse and it just energy that's flows and pushes the motion of Creation. It's not in any direct location despite what some people keep trying to claim it is.

Plus, given the relation to Wally. Who literally survived a weapon that was meant to destroy the Crown of Thawnes and even hurt the source of time. He's connected to the Speedforce as in any speedster then is safe to say all of it is beyond Multiversal.

 

[Elizio33]

Personally, I still say it's not bound to Creation. The Source Wall is the highest frequency as opposed to the Gallery being the lowest. Doesn't change the fact the Speed Force predates the Multiverse and it just energy that's flows and pushes the motion of Creation. It's not in any direct location despite what some people keep trying to claim it is.

Plus, given the relation to Wally. Who literally survived a weapon that was meant to destroy the Crown of Thawnes and even hurt the source of time. He's connected to the Speedforce as in any speedster then is safe to say all of it is beyond Multiversal.

So the only information to correct from the previous thread on Crisis Cosmology is that instead of saying the Gallery of Moments is beyond the Source Wall, we should say that the Gallery of Moments is not bound to creation and is the lowest frequency while the Source Wall is the highest. Is the Low 1-A/1-A tier for the Greater Omniverse and The Source still valid based on the Gallery of Moments and its R>F ?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So the only information to correct from the previous thread on Crisis Cosmology is that instead of saying the Gallery of Moments is beyond the Source Wall, we should say that the Gallery of Moments is not bound to creation and is the lowest frequency while the Source Wall is the highest. Is the Low 1-A/1-A tier for the Greater Omniverse and The Source still valid based on the Gallery of Moments and its R>F ?

I would like to believe it still has R>F. So I believe that 1-A still works.

 

[Elizio33]

I would like to believe it still has R>F. So I believe that 1-A still works.

I think we provided enough evidence in the last thread that the Moments Gallery still has R>F. As I said, the only thing that needs to be changed is that the Gallery of Moments is beyond the Source Wall, which it is not, and the Curved Corner is the Source Wall apparently? If this were the case, the Angles of the Arc would not be outside Creation, but would not be bound by it.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I think we provided enough evidence in the last thread that the Moments Gallery still has R>F. As I said, the only thing that needs to be changed is that the Gallery of Moments is beyond the Source Wall, which it is not, and the Curved Corner is the Source Wall apparently? If this were the case, the Angles of the Arc would not be outside Creation, but would not be bound by it.

I still say it's beyond. Everything is fine the way it is.

 

[Hirotoswnn1x]

@Elizio33 Summary sixth dimensions 1-A, right? I thought according to the op in crt it would be Low1-A.

 

[Elizio33]

@Elizio33 Summary sixth dimensions 1-A, right? I thought according to the op in crt it would be Low1-A.

It was agreed that the Sixth Dimension would be 1-B in lack of evidence supporting creation to be Low 1-A/1-A.

 

[Elizio33]

Unless it can be proven that the Gallery of Moments is contained within Creation, but Creation in DC is represented by all of Space and Time (Divine Continuum) while the gallery is deeper than these since beyond the aforementioned things there are concepts, where thought and expression are one. What we know is that the Gallery of Moments is within the "SpectraVerse" which is a term used to describe different levels of reality visited by Wally West, containing the Gallery of Moments as its "lowest vibration" and the Realm of Pure Math which is inhabited by sentient mathematical concepts.

 

[Omnificence]

Can someone remind me the reason why the DC Cosmology was downgraded again?

 

[Elizio33]

Can someone remind me the reason why the DC Cosmology was downgraded again?

Due to the DC Cosmology Split which was once limited to creating cosmologies based on one author's interpretation of the DCU, but since we've become less strict with that and allow for some parts to be combined with a some exceptions that are either too inconsistent or too outdated with the current DC Cosmology.