DC Comics: Follow-ups - Bleedspace

[NHTkenshin2]

Bump.

Agree (6): Gasper, Setsuna_tenma, Robo, Emirp sumitpo, Tarang123 and KLOL506

Neutral (2): LordGriffin1000, LuciferX

Disagree (5): VeryGoofyToddler, PrinceofPein, Deagonx, Antvasima and Elizio33

Woah, this is surprisingly divided. Everyone is free to change sides, if you want to change your placement please inform me.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Bruh it removed the colors. I worked so hard on these wtf

 

[Gasper]

Bruh it removed the colors. I worked so hard on these wtf

Lol

 

[Deagonx]

Bruh it removed the colors. I worked so hard on these wtf

You have to remove the @ sign if you want that to work. Which is probably for the best since tagging doesn't work for non-staff regardless.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Beautiful

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Again, if anyone wants to give his opinions on the thread, mod or not. Agree, disagree or neutral. Please do.

It would be preferable if you'd read through the thread first though please.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, calc group members are techniclly only authorised to evaluate calculations and calc group forum and staff forum threads about calculations or calculation methods, not regular verse-related content revision threads.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well, calc group members are techniclly only authorised to evaluate calculations and calc group forum and staff forum threads about calculations or calculation methods, not regular verse-related content revision threads.

So we need one more mod/admin who disagrees to conclude this thread?

 

[LuciferX]

I'm neutral on this. OP brought up some better arguements.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I'm neutral on this. OP brought up some better arguements.

Added

 

[LuciferX]

It seems I'm getting off topic but this scan shows the possibility that the multiverse is 33 dimensional space.
What do you think of this scan?

It's showing how alt earths existing beside each other.

 

[LuciferX]

People on VSBW seem to believe that the 8-D mobius loop exists above Hypertime for some unknown reason, but the cosmology can definitely reach 1-B in the future.

Easily debunkable scan tbh.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Well, considering every disagreement here comes from your view, should we continue with the discussion?

Lets start with recapping my points real quick

1. The Bleed is a hyperspace bulk that encompasses 4-D Spacetime continuums.
2. Supermans vision becoming 4-D to comprehend The Bleed would imply The Bleed exists in more then 4-D because of cognitive shenanigans
3. The Bleed rotates and exists in the 5th dimension, which has already been confirmed untillions of times by Morrisons stuff to be referring to higher R>F dimensions.

Snip

 

[LuciferX]

What is R>F dimensions?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

What is R>F dimensions?

Reality to fiction. An extremely popular theme in a lot of Grant Morrisons works

Here is an example of Quantum Superman explaining it

 

[LuciferX]

When Superman's vision upgraded to 4d, Zillo said, he can comprehend the true nature of bleed. I don't get how does that imply any more than 4d. It was implied bleed is merely 4d several times in Final Crisis. 5th dimension is both a geometrical dimension and place where imps reside. Currently, Bleed is the imagination is Scott's Cosmology. There is no solid confirmation for it being 5d. Those counter arguments could interprete in a different manner. Rotating around it isn't enough to prove both have same dimensionality. I lean towards the idea giving it a possible Low 1-C for now.

 

[LuciferX]

Here is an example of Quantum Superman explaining it

That's just him questioning about how our 3d world appears to him. It's hardly relevant for in-verse cosmology.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

That's just him questioning about how our 3d world appears to him.

Fiction. It appears to him as fiction. Thats the point

 

[LuciferX]

Fiction. It appears to him as fiction. Thats the point

Well no. First he asked "I'm thinking how our universe views from a higher dimension" and proceed to compare the comic book medium with reality. That the way how 2d comic appear to us is same as the higher d perspective.
Then, He prob broke the 4th wall and told the way how he see our 3d reality.
"Imagine how your 3d reality appears to me"

Adam was literary crying when his universe was going to be destroyed. He claimed he can read speech bubbles and can see past, present and future like manhattan, but in the same comic, he didn't know who's the president lol.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Then, He prob broke the 4th wall and told the way how he see our 3d reality.
"Imagine how your 3d reality appears to me"

I am very confused on how you could interpret these statements as not proving that dimensions within Morrisons universe view each other as fictional from a higher dimensional perspective? If the 3rd dimension viewed the 2nd dimension as a comicbook, the 4th dimension would view the 3rd as such.

This view isnt even subjective, there are many interviews and comics proving Grant does view these dimensions as higher R>F layers.

The Bleed exists in the 5th Dimension.

 

[LuciferX]

I am very confused on how you could interpret these statements as not proving that dimensions within Morrisons universe view each other as fictional from a higher dimensional perspective? If the 3rd dimension viewed the 2nd dimension as a comicbook, the 4th dimension would view the 3rd as such.

I meant it doesn't say he views reality as fiction if you read the whole two pages. There is also a hyperbolic statement he can see everything while same comic proved he can't. I'll give up this point, not really that relevant to the topic anyways. You may need to read that two pages in pax american to understand the context.

And bleed is merely rotating around a fixed point in fifth dimension, also it's referring to the place. fifth dimension is also a place. It isn't enough to prove both have same dimensionality.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

And bleed is merely rotating around a fixed point in fifth dimension, also it's referring to the place. fifth dimension is also a place. It isn't enough to prove both have same dimensionality.

Allow me to put it in a more understandable way.

The 4th dimension views the 3rd as fiction, this because Grant believes in the idea that higher dimensions can essentially read through the lives of lower ones like comicbooks, flipping through their lives from start to finish, which Adam did in that scan. This is all GMs vision on M-Theory and the Multiverse, he believes in these higher dimensions, he has made it clear to us on numerous different occasions.

--- “For the DC universe, it’s quite simple,” he continues. “You don’t need grand theories. The universe exists on the second dimension and we can read their adventures with Superman going back to 1938, and you can put them all together and look at them from above. We can line up the future Superman with the original Superman and they can see each other, but we can see both of them. For me, all of the interesting stuff, this super string stuff, is happening between me and the same dimension as this material.”

The Bleed rotating through the Fifth Dimension suggests that there is a dynamic transformation or movement within that dimension while maintaining a fixed reference point. Thus literally still existing in 1. A higher dimensional space 2. A higher metafictional space. Its clear as light 5-D.

 

[LuciferX]

Allow me to put it in a more understandable way.

The 4th dimension views the 3rd as fiction, this because Grant believes in the idea that higher dimensions can essentially read through the lives of lower ones like comicbooks, flipping through their lives from start to finish, which Adam did in that scan. This is all GMs vision on M-Theory and the Multiverse, he believes in these higher dimensions, he has made it clear to us on numerous different occasions.

Eh, that's NOT the point.

The Bleed rotating through the Fifth Dimension suggests that there is a dynamic transformation or movement within that dimension while maintaining a fixed reference point. Thus literally still existing in 1. A higher dimensional space 2. A higher metafictional space. Its clear as light 5-D.

It's referring to place. Not geometrical dimension. I think it's not a consistent evidence to prove 5d, well it's just my opinion. Final Crisis described bleed as a 4-dimensional thing, going against the dimensionality given to it through some vague statements seems heavily inconsistent. Your bulk scan has zero context. It says "arteries".

 

[Gasper]

Still agree with the OP

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Eh, that's NOT the point.

What do you mean, dude. The very fact that The Bleed quite literally rotates in a higher R>F dimension has to prove something does it not?

It's referring to place. Not geometrical dimension.

That is just incorrect. The Quantum Supes scan explicitly confirms these dimensions are describing where you geometrically exist. The ideas of Planetime, Cubetime and Hypercube-time by their literal names alone all contradict this notion.

And eitherway, if i am a person who exists in a “place" that views the dimension below me as fictional, then my point is still proven.

Final Crisis described bleed as a 4-dimensional thing

Read my interaction with Deegon. Who i will tag again shortly. Because every single disagreement excluding Matts comes from him.

Supermans vision did not limit The Bleed to 4-D, the very fact that his Optical range, the wavelengths of light that our eyes can detect and respond to, rather then the 3-D images that were translated by our brains into said 3-D. That alone, proves that The Bleed is not limited by 4-D.

Your bulk scan has zero context. It says "arteries".

When looking at a scan, try to also observe what is happening in it rather then look at the speech bubbles only, brother.

That entire sequence proved that the Bleed was the space that existed between universes. The Multiversity map proved that it is a space that encompasses these universes. FC #5 confirmed the existence of a Bulk encompassing universes. GM confirmed that this Bulk was The Bleed, which exists as a Hyperspace encompassing Spacetime continuums. Its all connected

Sorry for being a meanie, i just woke up.

 

[LuciferX]

What do you mean, dude. The very fact that The Bleed quite literally rotates in a higher R>F dimension has to prove something does it not?

No. Lobo once entered the fifth dimension and killed imps and it doesn't that mean he's 5d just because of existing in the dimension. Same logic for bleed.

That is just incorrect. The Quantum Supes scan explicitly confirms these dimensions are describing where you geometrically exist. The ideas of Planetime, Cubetime and Hypercube-time by their literal names alone all contradict this notion.

And eitherway, if i am a person who exists in a “place" that views the dimension below me as fictional, then my point is still proven.

I meant it was referred to fifth dimension as a location not in a spatial sense. In JLA, GL and Shazam entered fifth dimension and but they don't have the same dimensionality as imps. "Fifth dimension" term was used to describe both a location and a spatial dimension, so the meaning depends on the context of the scan.

Read my interaction with Deegon. Who i will tag again shortly. Because every single disagreement excluding Matts comes from him.

I did indeed read that.

Supermans vision did not limit The Bleed to 4-D, the very fact that his Optical range, the wavelengths of light that our eyes can detect and respond to, rather then the 3-D images that were translated by our brains into said 3-D. That alone, proves that The Bleed is not limited by 4-D.

What? Zilo blatantly said 4d is enough to comprehend the true nature of bleed. It's not about Sup's vision, it's about how 4d vision abled to comprehend it.

Edit: I saw that GM's statement of bleed being bulk space. It's fine it there's more context for it whether a 4d bulk or 5d. Hyperspace is a space more than three dimensions , it could still be 4 dimensional.

 

[Alonik]

Commenting here because you asked me to.

I agree that Bleed is Low 1-C, but I disagree that we should scale the bleed between universes to Low 1-C. I see a problem when peeps interpret the DC map is that they ignore the colors in the multiversal vibrations section. As we see below, DC's multiverse looks like a pizza with 4 pieces, on the edge of each piece you can see that there is very highlighted edge where it is divided by the white of the overvoid, leading to a red barrier that covers the entire multiverse.

​

This is important, because it's not just an artistic choice, DC has already said that the House of Heroes, gains access to all the layers of the Multiverse, obviously this is due to Rodney Rabbits about the siphons of the bleed space rotating through the fifth dimension since the monitor launchs sorties into the bleed or any of the 52 earths:

Also the House of Heroes a kind of cosmic base of operations which gains access to all the layers of the multiverse as it rotates through the fifth dimension, it acts as a sort of fixed point from which the monitors launch sorties into the bleed or any of the 52 earths

Talking a bit more about art we have several of the tubes, showing that there are more than 4 (which indicates that at each boundary of the pizza shape of the red layers is one of these tubes).

Of course, that's not the meat of this argument, it is exactly in stories that are related to Morrison's cosmology, like Death of the New Gods as it accepted both via interview and on this wiki as canon. That being said;

In the death of the New Gods, Metron explicitly claims that mentions the event of Genesis' comic where the heroes ventured into the source itself, which almost destroyed the Source Wall, and that if that had happened "would have only allowed the bleed to seep into our reality". Metron also claims that the Bleed is the strange area between layers of reality, and this is talking about all the layers of the Multiverse, since later on we also have Darkseid Soul Fire's fight against the fake source, where it is said that their battle was cutting through Apokolips' fabric of reality to the bleed. This is pretty straightforward about Bleed existing on all levels of reality.

Also in recent comics this has been stated, even though it is not Morrison's, this idea of the Multiverse being the Blood that connects the Multiverse still exists:

• Kyle Rayner, the only living being to cross beyond the source wall, your knowledge will show me the bleed space that connects the entire multiverse...- Titans (2016) #34
  • It is a multiversal conduit, but mother blood needs us to open gateways to access other worlds... Because the bleed naturally insulates against source energy... It could help them deal with the fracture in the source wall!
    • The worlds in question is all the worlds of the map
• The house of heroes is anchored to a fixed point in the bleed, which is the lifeblood of the multiversel. From here, we can go anywhere instantly. - Justice League Incarnate (2021) #1

The bleed is the vascular system of the map itself:

​

With all that being said, what should be done here is just this:

Bleed Space is the actual form of the multiverse, the flaw that was born in the overvoid, as it is the life-system of the multiverse in all of its layers, and its smallest form is the ultramenstrum within the Orrery of worlds. The Sphere of the Gods or the Monitors should not scale to the Bleed in its entirety, because they exist only in smaller parts than the entire vascular system of the multiverse map, and that as a whole is the blood of everything.

I will no longer comment here and and so i'll unfollow the thread, hopefully this will be of help.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I... Surprisingly agree, yeah at a 4th glance or something, this seems pretty fine for the most part. Best post on here, thumbs up even

Alonik brings up valid points about the Bleed's range extending across the Map and raises doubts about considering the Bleedspace in the Orrery as equal to the entire structure. The main points of the thread are not addressed by Alonik unfortunately, however he seemingly agreed with 5-D?

Regarding the Bleed being the literal blood of the Multiverse and being its Bulk hyperspace, there is a question of whether it assumes a lower dimensional form when existing between universes. It probably raises the question of why we should assume that the statements mentioned in the original post refer to the entire structure of the Bleed rather than its supposed lower form within the Multiverse, or if there is even a “lower form within the Multiverse" to begin with.

The handling of this situation requires further examination and consideration of the evidence and arguments presented considering everything has been flipped in on itself now. Specifically who would scale and who would not.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Regarding the Bleed being the literal blood of the Multiverse and being its Bulk hyperspace, there is a question of whether it assumes a lower dimensional form when existing between universes. It probably raises the question of why we should assume that the statements mentioned in the original post refer to the entire structure of the Bleed rather than its supposed lower form within the Multiverse, or if there is even a “lower form within the Multiverse" to begin with.

It looks more like he was saying its entire structure is the “blood of the Multiverse.” The refined bulk within the Orrery acts in coordination with the Orrery. The Orrery being accepted as 4D would equate that Bleed to 4D but will not scale to the entire structure thus not the entirety of the Bleed.

The handling of this situation requires further examination and consideration of the evidence and arguments presented considering everything has been flipped in on itself now. Specifically who would scale and who would not.

Based on what he said: Overvoid, Presence, Source, Great Darkness, or anyone above the entire structure of the Multiverse. The New Gods and Monitors don't scale to it.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

It looks more like he was saying its entire structure is the “blood of the Multiverse.” The refined bulk within the Orrery acts in coordination with the Orrery. The Orrery being accepted as 4D would equate that Bleed to 4D but will not scale to the entire structure thus not the entirety of the Bleed.

Well then i will eventually have to return to point one again. The Bleed between realities is a Hyperspace encompassing Spacetimes, architectures of the Bleed within the Orrery rotate in the Fifth dimension and obviously, you need 4-D optical range to comprehend the space between universes.

These much have not yet been fully debunked, yet. We simply established that the Bleed seemingly extends beyond the regular Multiverse, not how said space is still higher-dimensional.

 

[Alonik]

Well then i will eventually have to return to point one again. The Bleed between realities is a Hyperspace encompassing Spacetimes, architectures of the Bleed within the Orrery rotate in the Fifth dimension and obviously, you need 4-D optical range to comprehend the space between universes.

These much have not yet been fully debunked, yet. We simply established that the Bleed seemingly extends beyond the regular Multiverse, not how said space is still higher-dimensional.

I had forgotten to unfollow this, so another comment:

I disagree with the Sphere of the Gods Low 1-C scaling with the Bleed, reasong:

The Bleed and the 5th dimension exist together in Morrison's cosmology, both is the blood and imagination of the map. And morrison's 5D is Low 1-C as accepted in this wiki. And as @Deagonx said about interpreting the best for both because Snyder's is composite, we have the "Imagination is the blood of the multiverse", which is accepted for Mxyzptlk as Low 1-C. This is in agreement with most current comics where the bleed is the vascular system of the multiverse.

In simple terms:

• Bleed Space (Artery of Universes): 4D/Low 2-C up to 2-A
• Bleed Space (Vascular system of the Multiverse Map that flows from outside the Source Wall with source energy)=5D/Low 1-C

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I disagree with the Sphere of the Gods Low 1-C scaling with the Bleed, reasong:

Im not discussing the scaling of the Sphere. Moreso the scaling of the Bleed between universes itself

You can read more in the OP and here

Is a Hyperspace not higher dimensional? Is that your main problem here?


Doesn't have to. The very fact that he acknowledges Grants work on this cosmological model, the very fact that he works with Grant constantly regarding cosmologies cements the fact that Bleedspace being a bulk that encompasses universes in Scott has no need to be considered outdated or now retconned. There is nothing implying that it is


It is. At the time at least.

Again, my point isnt to say that Mxys 5-D doesn't exist within pre-Snyder Morrison stuff, its to say that the Bleed existed in Five dimensions that are disconnected from Snyders Fifth dimension. Sorry for the confusion


Maybe. But again, this was like 5 whole years before any of Snyders massive contributions to the cosmology, and again, as i have already proved, Morrison believed in MUCH more then just 5 dimensions, in which Snyder has still said that these too still exist, so maybe it doesn't have to be referring to the same thing.

Spoiler: Waffling

When discussing the brain's ability to "imagine" a 3D image, you would indeed be focusing on the cognitive and perceptual aspects of vision rather than the strictly geometric aspects. It involves the brain's ability to analyze and interpret visual input to construct an imagination of a three-dimensional image.

However, If you are specifically focusing on the geometry of how humans see, it would be correct to consider the two-dimensional nature of the retinal image that is formed on the back of the eye as the actual geometric nature of human vision.

So when discussing “4-D vision" Superman is not seeing 3-D structures in each eye and combining them to form a 4-D image, we quite literally know his OPTICAL RANGE becomes 4-D. Allow me to explain further what that would mean

The term "optical range" typically refers to the range of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye, rather than specifically referring to the images perceived before the brain processes them into three dimensions.

When we talk about the optical range, we are primarily referring to the wavelengths of light that our eyes can detect and respond to. These wavelengths are then captured by the eye's optics (cornea, lens, etc.) and form an image on the retina. The retina photoreceptors that convert the incoming light into electrical signals. These signals are then transmitted to the brain via the optic nerve for further processing and interpretation, including the construction of a three-dimensional perception of the visual scene.

So, while the optical range is related to the initial capture of light by the eye, it encompasses the images seen before the brain translates them into three dimensions.

We do not have to assume a thing, we know Grant interprets it as a space containing universes.


Yep, thats what my whole thing in the last thread was about LMAO. Grant believes these dimensions view the previous as fictional.

 

[Xearsay]

In the death of the New Gods, Metron explicitly claims that mentions the event of Genesis' comic where the heroes ventured into the source itself, which almost destroyed the Source Wall, and that if that had happened "would have only allowed the bleed to seep into our reality". Metron also claims that the Bleed is the strange area between layers of reality, and this is talking about all the layers of the Multiverse, since later on we also have Darkseid Soul Fire's fight against the fake source, where it is said that their battle was cutting through Apokolips' fabric of reality to the bleed. This is pretty straightforward about Bleed existing on all levels of reality.

1) The first scan mentions how the Source Wall was created after COIE by countless planes of existence’s merging into one barrier. And that later this wall would be breached and allow bleed to come into reality. However, in the following issue it’s mentioned that the Source Wall exist between each of the 52 universes.

2) How does Darkseid and The Source having such a destructive battle that their battle cuts into the Bleed prove the bleed exists in all levels of reality?

Also the map doesn’t actually support your main point. As for the Monitors to harvest the Bleed they quite literally needed to drill into the Orrery of Worlds and siphon it into their realm. Which doesn’t make any sense if Bleed exists in all levels of reality. The rest of your evidence stems from stories that aren’t even by Morrison, so there’s no point in even addressing them.

 

[Deagonx]

However, in the following issue it’s mentioned that the Source Wall exist between each of the 52 universes.

That doesn't say Source Wall, it says "a form of wall."

2) How does Darkseid and The Source having such a destructive battle that their battle cuts into the Bleed prove the bleed exists in all levels of reality?

It doesn't, but that is not what his argument was, that was only a single aspect of the supportive evidence. That said, if the bleed is said to be the fabric of reality in the Sphere of the Gods, that directly supports its existence at that level -- beyond the Orrery.

 

[Xearsay]

That doesn't say Source Wall, it says "a form of wall."

Yes that “form of wall” is the Source Wall, as as it’s what Metron and The Source were talking about earlier in the context of their conversation being this unsurpassable wall that was breached during Genesis, which prevented the Source from merging with its other half.

It doesn't, but that is not what his argument was, that was only a single aspect of the supportive evidence. That said, if the bleed is said to be the fabric of reality in the Sphere of the Gods, that directly supports its existence at that level -- beyond the Orrery.

His argument is literally that Bleed exists in all levels of reality which is exactly what I said.

Alonik - “This is pretty straightforward about Bleed existing on all levels of reality.”

And the fight between The Source and Darkseid was being used as evidence for the idea that Metrons statement about the Bleed refers to “all layers of reality.”

Alonik - “ Metron also claims that the Bleed is the strange area between layers of reality, and this is talking about all the layers of the Multiverse, since later on we also have Darkseid Soul Fire's fight against the fake source…”

However, even if in DOTNG they said Bleed existed as the fabric of reality in the Godsphere that wouldn’t prove Aloniks point that Bleed exists across the entirety of the Multiverse, in all levels of reality. That would just be a single piece of evidence supporting that Bleed exists in the Godsphere. The idea of Bleed existing in the Godsphere doesn’t even really matter anyway, since Grant retconned the Bleed into being specifically within the Orrery.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Can we please focus on the Bleed in the Orrery and the ultra Menstruation thing or whatever its called for a second here? This whole thing could be dealt with later

 

[Elizio33]

Can we please focus on the Bleed in the Orrery and the ultra Menstruation thing or whatever its called for a second here?

"ultra Menstruation"

 

[Elizio33]

Personally, i think the Bleed between universes should stay 2-C and its highest level flowing through every level of existence (minus the 6th Dimension)/the true form of the flaw is Low 1-C.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Thank you for staying on the main topic.

I want people to slowly disect the following arguments closely so we can reach a conclusion.

---

---

In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond #1, as Main Supes is employed by Zillo Valla to protect the Multiverse. Upon entering Bleedspace, Zillo comments that Superman most probably does not comprehend his surroundings, and requires 4-dimensional vision to fully comprehend what he is experiencing.

If you order Final Crisis physically, you can get glasses named “Overvoid viewers" that allow the individual wearing them to view 4-dimensional perspective. The wording in both the description of these glasses and in comics, explicitly state that you are viewing from the perspective of a 4-dimensional entity, which is important.

More importantly, Zillo explicitly states to Superman that his Optical Range would also get affected and upgraded to experience Bleedspace. These two points are pretty integral for several different reasons, allow me to explain.

I will at least try to explain the general idea of the following fact. The images our eyes perceive are considered two-dimensional because they are formed on the flat surface of our retinas, consisting of height and width but lacking depth.

However, our brain processes visual cues like perspective, shading, and motion to create a vivid three-dimensional perception, allowing us to experience depth and the fullness of the visual world. It constructs a mental representation that transcends the flatness of the retinal images, resulting in our ability to perceive an immersive three-dimensional reality that allows us to see in a dimension higher then the one the images that reach out retinas are.

Where Optical range, and the Overvoid viewers come into play, is that they are without a shadow of a doubt, not referring to the translated images of our brains, the imagery perceived by an entity existing in 4-dimensions, but to the likewise, 2-D images that are given to Supermans retinas, and usually translated into 3-D with normal human cases.

The term "optical range" typically refers to the range of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye, rather than specifically referring to the images perceived before the brain processes them into three dimensions.

When we talk about the optical range, we are primarily referring to the wavelengths of light that our eyes can detect and respond to. These wavelengths are then captured by the eye's optics (cornea, lens, etc.) and form an image on the retina. The retina photoreceptors that convert the incoming light into electrical signals. These signals are then transmitted to the brain via the optic nerve for further processing and interpretation, including the construction of a three-dimensional perception of the visual scene.

Making the Bleed not limited by 4-dimensions, which becomes even more apparent, when you meet with the other two following arguments in support of a 4+ Dimensional Bleedspace.

The Bleed is explicitly stated to be a literal Hyperspace, (meaning; often conceptualized as additional dimensions that exist alongside the conventional spatial dimensions we are familiar with. This however, being a case of a Hyperspace in comparison to already 4-dimensional spacetime continuums) consistent with it being called the Bulk, a concept closely associated with a higher-D space encompassing universes. Ultimately making it inherently a 5-dimensional structure

And the best case for 5-D. When conversing with Doctor Multiverse, Rodney Rabbit comments that architectures within Bleedspace are shifting, because they are rotating through 5-dimensions in a fixed point within the Orrery of Worlds. This has a lot of shit to consider off the bat.

First, again, suggests that there is a dynamic transformation or movement within that dimension while maintaining a fixed reference point. And of course, lets not even forget that Grant clearly considers dimensions to be referring to higher metafictional dimensional perspectives looking down on the lower reality as a fictional comicbook. Literally existing within that space has to imply that you exist in a space that views the ordinary 4 dimensions as fictional.


All of the above ultimately leading me to believe that the Bleed is most definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, a 5-dimensional space. It is a Hyperspace encompassing spacetime continuums, it is requires 4-dimensional images being sent to the retina to merely comprehend, when a a brain actually usually translates said images to a higher, more complex perspective, and it has “
architectures” within the Orrery, within Bleedspace that rotate through 5-dimensions, also further opening up room for higher dimensional perspective within the Bleed.

Again, i wish, if you do have problems with 5-D Bleed, to tackle this arguments head on, giving closure to anyone who wishes to make a similar CRT in the future if this gets rejected.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me regarding both sides of the arguments here please?