DBS Revisions

[AKM sama]

I'll try to keep it short and simple.

• EoS SSB Vegeta was portrayed to be equal to EoS SSB Goku who is already Low 2-C. So Vegeta should probably get a new key or his profile should be adjusted a little bit according to this.

• Golden Freeza survived an attack from Toppo which warped the entirety of the WoV. Well, this will obviously cause scaling issues as every other Blue level fighter in the ToP arc would become High 3-A via scaling, but at the same time it will still be consistent according to the progressive scale of DBS in the ToP arc.(3-A --> High 3-A --> Low 2-C)

• GoD Toppo's abilities which he got as a direct result of his transformation into a GoD (Void Manipulation via Energy of Destruction Aura and Spatial Manipulation) should be scaled to other GoDs as well.

If I missed something, please tell me so I can include it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the first bullet. I agree with that revision wholehartedly.

Neutral on High 3-A stuff.

Agree with this one as well...

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Agree on the first one and third one but don't know about second one i am neutral on that

 

[Aeyu]

1. All that would need to happen is Vegeta's Key being renamed Post-Tournament of Power arc, just like Goku.

2. I advocated for High 3-A already in a previous thread; that being said I don't think he's going to get High 3-A. Even At least 3-A was barely accepted.

3. I have no idea why they didn't get these powers already. It was the subject of another thread.

 

[AKM sama]

2. I advocated for High 3-A already in a previous thread; that being said I don't think he's going to get High 3-A. Even At least 3-A was barely accepted.

Wasn't the previous thread about them being Low 2-C via scaling from Jiren? I don't remember any thread where this Freeza feat was discussed specifically.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with the first one and the third one as well. But the 2nd is a no, because Matt said so and explained why on a previous thread.

 

[AKM sama]

But the 2nd is a no, because Matt said so and explained why on a previous thread.

If you are referring to this thread then, I was in agreement with Matt too, but that's not what my current point is about.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

What about infinite speed for super shenron because he crossed the world of void and appeared in every universe at once

 

[AKM sama]

What about infinite speed for super shenron because he crossed the world of void and appeared in every universe at once

That's just reality warping at a low-multiversal range/scale.

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm fine with 1 and 2.

 

[Kepekley23]

No offense because I find you kewl, but it's been a week at most, guys.

 

[Kepekley23]

Warping the World of Void isn't a High 3-A feat unless there is proof of time being affected in some way. The WoV is a void of infinite nothingness. Inverse square law tells us that, unless matter is present, warping an infinite amount of empty space is an unquantifiable, and at best a good spatial hax feat. Only reason why it is Low 2-C for Goku and Jiren is because of time shenanigans.

 

[Amexim]

Warping or shaking?

 

[Kepekley23]

There is also the fact this is an outlier. Even 17 and Freeza post-limit breaking were only considered to be "possibly High 3-A" by the same people who are agreeing with this, and now you guys are trying to get versions that are far weaker (according to yourself) to High 3-A outright?

You guys do realize this would scale to Anilaza, 17, SSJB Goku, Jiren in the fight against base SSJB Goku, SSJ1 Kefla, Hit...all of whom have 3-A feats?

That's all while I neglect to mention the fact Freeza surviving this could also be a Resistance to Existence Erasure feat.

Sorry, but no.

 

[AKM sama]

I myself am neutral about the second point. But just for the sake of argument, I included it in the OP. You are free to agree or disagree, I just want to see which side has better arguments.

Playing devil's advocate here, that hakai energy was literally shown to spread throughout the WoV, and that's how it would be a High 3-A feat. This is exactly the same reason as Goku's and Jiren's shaking the WoV feat which was considered legit.

Anyway, I take it you agree with the other two points?

 

[ArmBill]

These seem fine but I got a question. If the other gods of destruction got toppos abilites would that include resistance to paralysis ,or nah?

 

[AKM sama]

No, because that could be just Toppo's own resistance. We don't have any proof that it was because of his GoD transformation.

 

[Golden_Void]

Frieza paralyzed him within a ball of ki. His destruction aura should've negated it entirely.

 

[Kepekley23]

That is more like proof Freeza's attacks resist low-level GoDs.

 

[Dziga]

- Agree

- Definitely no, already discussed and the accepted was At least 3-A

- Agree too

 

[Vastolordepwn]

Points 1 and 3 seem fine. Two is a no go, because killing isn't allowed in the tournament, so it's arguable Toppo was holding back. For all we know, Toppo could've just killed him on the spot if he wanted if there wasn't the no killing rule.

 

[Golden_Void]

Warping the World of Void isn't a High 3-A feat unless there is proof of time being affected in some way. The WoV is a void of infinite nothingness. Inverse square law tells us that, unless matter is present, warping an infinite amount of empty space is an unquantifiable, and at best a good spatial hax feat. Only reason why it is Low 2-C for Goku and Jiren is because of time shenanigans.

Doesn't need to have affected time, otherwise it wouldn't be High 3-A. There is air in the WoV though so matter does exist. Being a realm without space or time was probably before El Padre Grande modified it, but then again, they have shown us Zeno, Goku and Trunks breathing in an erased universe, so maybe there is or isn't air :^) I agree with the High 3-A from Toppo, but idk about every blue fighter scaling.

 

[Paleomario66]

When it comes to the characters who were equal to SSB Goku that scale to Frieza's High 3-A feat if it is accepted, only the ones at the end of the Tournament (SSB Goku and Vegeta) should scale, as well as Android 17. I'm unsure about Gohan. He was shown to be weaker than 17 as he could not damage base Toppo, but he was confident in being able to knock off Golden Frieza if he betrayed Universe 7. Gohan isn't really the type to overestimate himself in DBS, so it's hard to say if his threat was a bluff or not.

Here are my thoughts on this if the High 3-A is accepted:

Who scales

• SSB Goku
• SSB Vegeta
• Android 17

Who may scale, but may not

• Potential Unleashed Gohan

Who doesn't scale

• Other SSB-level characters before the final episodes of the Tournament (Kale, SS Kefla, etc.)

 

[Golden_Void]

17 and Frieza are both above Gohan IMO

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Personally i don't think so. 17 was impressed by Golden Freeza's strength and Gohan was strong enough to force Goku to use SSB Kaioken. Can Freeza do that? @Unite

Unless your talking about after their drastic power boosts, In that case ignore my post.

 

[Golden_Void]

He made Goku use kaioken and he got one-shot.

Frieza and Goku both knocked each other out and Goku didn't use kaioken.

Suppressed 17 > Suppressed SSB Goku via their fight. After their power boosts the gap is bigger imo.

 

[Peter1129]

Gohan was hinted at being weaker than Frieza, he couldn't damage Base Toppo even though both Frieza and 17 could do it and he got one shot by SSBKK Goku. Frieza stalemated SSB Goku but you can argue he's somewhat stronger since he wasn't knocked out of Golden Form. Not to mention he was also able to damage Base Toppo which Gohan couldn't do with his Kamehameha. 17 was shown to be somewhat on par with Base Toppo who made Goku go SSBKK although we don't know what lvl of Kaioken he was using so the Low Ball is x2 High Ball is x20. So basically

Ultimate Gohan at most SSB Lvl. Golden Frieza abit higher than SSB Lvl. Android 17 borderlines SSBKK Lvl.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with UMR, Golden Frieza also overpowered Ultimate Gohan at one point, but that was mostly a plan to get Frost to lower his guard.

 

[Golden_Void]

Oh wait let me find another piece of evidence

 

[Golden_Void]

Blocks Gohan's kamehameha with one hand
The same one Toppo tanked.

 

[Peter1129]

He actually had his broken as hell android barrier up at that time. But yeah to be honest Gohan was pretty much a complete fodder near the end of the tournament.

 

[Golden_Void]

His barrier was up but then Toppo twisted his arm so it fell down and he blocked it with his hand.

Gohan is U6 Namekian tier tops

 

[Peter1129]

Wait really wow I can't believe I never noticed that when I watched the episode. Guess there's another supporting evidence for Android 17 being vastly above SSB lvl before breaking his limits.

 

[Golden_Void]

Also saves SSBE Vegeta from a suprise attack from Jiren using pure speed

 

[AKM sama]

Well, there is the whole ordeal with Dywpo. Freeza waw fighting almost equally with him but then was overpowered and pushed to the edge. Gohan came and saved Freeza, started fighting with Dyspo and overpowered him. Obviously Freeza helped in restricting his movements.

But the point is, both were fighting almost equally with Dyspo, Freeza was briefly overpowered by Dyspo and Gohan ultimately overpowered him. It is also consistent with how both of them were portrayed as being equal to SSB goku pre top. So imo, both Freeza and Gohan are pretty close.

 

[ByAsura]

Gohan's charged Super Kamehameha overpowered the Fused Robot thing, but a Galick Gun and Kamehameha combination from Goku and Vegeta as SSBs couldn't overpower a weaker beam. Not saying this makes him stronger than them, not at all, maybe relative though.

 

[Amlad22]

Dyspo is a poor example for comparing Gohan and Frieza. Sure Frieza was overwhelmed at one point, but he took no damage and was only breathing heavy when Gohan stepped in. Plus as it was said above, Gohan only beat Dyspo due to his movements being restricted. And we know that without any speed inhancements, Dyspo is ssj God Level at best.

 

[ByAsura]

He was still able to fight Freiza without speed boosts, like when he was punching him out of the arena. Dyspo was using another form, which put him physically on their level of speed (w/o lightbullet) and power.

 

[AKM sama]

At least the other 2 points are unanimous. Can the changes for them be carried out?

The High 3-A point could go on for a long while lol.

 

[Aeyu]

Gohan is definitely above the Namekians, he's comparable to Dyspo. Dyspo would still get rekt by Toppo.