DBS Conservative Speed Multipliers (Remastered)

[Orange]

Anyway, this is the correct multiplier to go with assuming 50x SSB gets accepted, anything higher is just blatant wank, especially the decillions thing.

Now I agree with you.
But when goku got 10 times stronger after black arc, it should affect all of his other forms, mainly base and super saiyan.
In the tournament of power, his ssb got stronger as his ssbkk20.
Meaning he got 20 times stronger. Which includes his base form, super saiyan form, ssb, ssbkk10&20 actually

 

[KLOL506]

Now I agree with you.
But when goku got 10 times stronger after black arc, it should affect all of his other forms, mainly base and super saiyan.
In the tournament of power, his ssb got stronger as his ssbkk20.
Meaning he got 20 times stronger. Which includes his base form, super saiyan form, ssb, ssbkk10&20 actually

I don't think there's any explicit statement claiming Goku to have become 10x stronger after Black Arc, or even the 20x stronger, besides, base Goku massively downscales from his SSB transformation from the 2nd Hit rematch and onwards, but by how much, we are uncertain.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't think there's any explicit statement claiming Goku to have become 10x stronger after Black Arc, or even the 20x stronger, besides, base Goku massively downscales from his SSB transformation from the 2nd Hit rematch and onwards, but by how much, we are uncertain.

We know that SSB Goku = Hit (Black Saga) > Hit (U6 Saga) = SSBKK10 Goku (U6 Saga)

 

[Orange]

I don't think there's any explicit statement claiming Goku to have become 10x stronger after Black Arc, or even the 20x stronger, besides, base Goku massively downscales from his SSB transformation from the 2nd Hit rematch and onwards, but by how much, we are uncertain.

There was actually
Goku in the U7vs76 he needed ssbkk10 in order to match hit, but after black arc, he was able to match him with his ssb only.
And for the 20x, in his ssbkk20 he couldn't do anything to jiren, even his ui got blinked, while in his ssb he had put more of a fight actually, supporting the the 20x upgrade.
And remember, goku trained like carly between u7vsu6 and after the black arc. So him getting stronger isbgeacily supported by feats, scaling, and multiple Zenkain boosts

 

[Orange]

A note, hit got also stronger, so the multipleier is likely to be much stronger but we are only limited to feags which suggests the 10x jump in power

 

[KLOL506]

We know that SSB Goku = Hit (Black Saga) > Hit (U6 Saga) = SSBKK10 Goku (U6 Saga)

I did already account for that, no? SSB Goku didn't need to use Kaio-Ken x10 against Hit in their rematch (Thus SSB Goku 2nd Rematch would be on par with U6 KKx10 SSB Goku), granted, Goku already trained even harder before that to rely on SSB KKx10 to go against Infinite Zamasu but still, zenkais are inconsistent AF while being massive power leaps at the same time.

 

[Orange]

I did already account for that, no? SSB Goku didn't need to use Kaio-Ken x10 against Hit in their rematch, granted, Goku already trained even harder before that to rely on SSB KKx10 to go against Infinite Zamasu but still, zenkais are inconsistent AF while being massive power leaps at the same time.

We aren't going to use zenkai, we know that he got 10x based on that feat.
Making him in base form 10 times stronger.
Then after T.O.P he got 20 times stronger, meaning his base also got 20 times stronger

 

[CR_Catinho]

My Interpretation.
Goku base after T.o.p. : 1.96 quintillion.
(He got 10 times stronger after black saga, we don't count the other zenkai boosts since they are are hard to count actually)
Goku Ssj: his super saiyan multipliers is accepted, and is backed up by feats, statement etc.... it would give us: 98 quintillion.
I will ignore the ssj2,3, and god multipliers.
I will go straight to ssb: it's in.The name, it's ssg+ssj, ssj multiplier is accepted so I don't see why we shouldn't use it. It would give us 4900 quintillion, or 4.9 sixtillion.
Ssb10: is 49 sixtillion.
Ssb20 is : 980 sixtillion .
After his ui. His ssb is as strong as his ssb20 .
Which means his ssb is :980 sextillion
Ssb10 would give us: 9.8 septillion
Ssb20 would be : 196 septillion the speed of light

I agree with the best femboy for reasons that are totally not related to how much adorable he is and because he totally didn't improsine my wife.

 

[CR_Catinho]

On a serious note tho , if the Ssb multiplier is okay to use then this seems okay to apply

 

[Orange]

My blog is wrong, I'll do a better one I think uwu

 

[CR_Catinho]

My blog is wrong, I'll do a better one I think uwu

Am i still getting my prize tho

 

[Bernkastelll]

Soon, I will make namek saga be MFTL+, then, DBS will reach decillions times FTL

 

[KLOL506]

Soon, I will make namek saga be MFTL+, then, DBS will reach decillions times FTL

bruh

 

[Orange]

We know that goku got 20x stronger after ui.
His ssb became as strong as his ssbkk20
So his ssbkk20: 196 septillion
We just have to make his ssj and base form 20x times stronger.
His base would be: 39.2 quintillion the speed of light
And his ssj will be :1.96 sextillion the speed of light.

 

[Orange]

Am i still getting my prize tho

What prize?

 

[KLOL506]

We know that goku got 20x stronger after ui.
His ssb became as strong as his ssbkk20
So his ssbkk20: 196 septillion
We just have to make his ssj and base form 20x times stronger.
His base would be: 39.2 quintillion the speed of light
And his ssj will be :1.96 sextillion the speed of light.

No, we only have values of his SSB form for being to his UIO2 self post-Tournament, since his weaker forms downscale from it.

 

[Orange]

No, we only have values of his SSB form getting comparable to his KKx20 self post-Tournament, since his weaker forms downscale from it.

Yeh, if he gets stronger, all of his forms get stronger.
So it still would apply.
It's like I am 1 in form A, and 3 in form B, if my formB suddenly got to 6, my form A will get effected too, so my form A will get 2.

 

[CR_Catinho]

What prize?

You little punk ..

 

[Orange]

You little punk ..

Just kidding, you'll have your cookies later

 

[KLOL506]

Yeh, if he gets stronger, all of his forms get stronger.
So it still would apply.
It's like I am 1 in form A, and 3 in form B, if my formB suddenly got to 6, my form A will get effected too, so my form A will get 2.

yeah but the thing is, his weaker forms don't exactly scale 1:1 to his SSB form, they downscale massively from it.

 

[Orange]

yeah but the thing is, his weaker forms don't exactly scale 1:1 to his SSB form, they downscale massively from it.

Why wouldn't they? Their ssb form is just a multiplier, what matters isn't the form, it's the base state.
If the base state gets stronger, the other forms will, if the other forms get stronger, his base get stronger
If you say only his ssb got stronger, then you have to change its multiplier

 

[KLOL506]

Why wouldn't they? Their ssb form is just a multiplier, what matters isn't the form, it's the base state.
If the base state gets stronger, the other forms will, if the other forms get stronger, his base get stronger
If you say only his ssb got stronger, then you have to change its multiplier

yeah but we don't know by how much his base state ballooned, we only know about his SSB state.

 

[Orange]

yeah but we don't know by how much his base state ballooned, we only know about his SSB state.

We know, his ssb state got stronger by 20 times, thus his base too.
If you want t to say that only his ssb got stronger, than the ssb multiplier will be 500x, add in kk10&20.
Thus it's more logical to say that all of bis other forms got buffed too with the same rate as his ssb

 

[KLOL506]

We know, his ssb state got stronger by 20 times, thus his base too.
If you want t to say that only his ssb got stronger, than the ssb multiplier will be 500x, add in kk10&20.
Thus it's more logical to say that all of bis other forms got buffed too with the same rate as his ssb

No, sorry, but that's not how it works. Without a concrete statement or other supporting evidence, we cannot assume that such a power increase also happened for his weaker forms minus SSB, that would completely negate the purpose of SSB altogether.

 

[Orange]

No, sorry, but that's not how it works. Without a concrete statement or other supporting evidence, we cannot assume that such a power increase also happened for his weaker forms minus SSB, that would completely negate the purpose of SSB altogether.

So what I am getting is that ssb now is 500 times multiplier, that's great isn't it.
See how dumb it is. This isn't some fallacy, or some headcanon, this is what I call "logic".
Whenever he gets strong in a form, it's either his transformation got a higher multiplier, or his base form got stronger, triggering an effect which would make every form is stronger.
So go ahead, it's ether ssb now is a 500 multiplier, or his base got 20 times stronger.
Ssb isn't seperated from his other forms, it isn't some state where likege becomes a new person with, ssb is literally ssg+ ssj. So ssj rules would naturally apply to it. The multipliers don't change, but the strength of his base from those.
He didn't get stronger by making his ssb multiplier go higher, he made himself higher, his base form.
This isn't stacking a multiplier like the kaioken, this Is him getting stronger as a whole, not just his ssb form

 

[KLOL506]

So what I am getting is that ssb now is 500 times multiplier, that's great isn't it.
See how dumb it is. This isn't some fallacy, or some headcanon, this is what I call "logic".
Whenever he gets strong in a form, it's either his transformation got a higher multiplier, or his base form got stronger, triggering an effect which would make every form is stronger.
So go ahead, it's ether ssb now is a 500 multiplier, or his base got 20 times stronger.
Ssb isn't seperated from his other forms, it isn't some state where likege becomes a new person with, ssb is literally ssg+ ssj. So ssj rules would naturally apply to it. The multipliers don't change, but the strength of his base from those.
He didn't get stronger by making his ssb multiplier go higher, he made himself higher, his base form.
This isn't stacking a multiplier like the kaioken, this Is him getting stronger as a whole, not just his ssb form

Uhhhhhh... What?

Where the hell did you get the 500x stronger from? Multipliers like that aren't linear with power increases over all forms you know

 

[Orange]

Uhhhhhh... What?

Where the hell did you get the 500x stronger from? Multipliers like that aren't linear with power increases over all forms you know

Easy, ssb is 50, ge got 20, 500.
After all, you said his ssb increased and not his other forms, this could only logically happen if ssb was like a completely separate state from base, I mean by it that the base form doesn't effect ssb, which is dumb.

 

[SirAlex09]

The Decillion x FTL stems from the fact that the OP assumed the SSJG to be a 160 000 multiplier and blue to be 50x which is valid.

Goku stated that even Vegito can't beat Beerus and Vegito can go SSJ3 and since base Vegito is already more powerful than SSJ3 Goku , SSJ3 Vegito is at least a 160 000 x multiplier. This would make SSG a 160k multiplier at the very least and blue 80000000x base. That's not headcanon but based on given facts..

Back to topic can someone give me an explaination why SSJ2 is considered inconsistent for turning around a stomp? If you get a 2x increase for every physical stat it is not far fetched to do that...

 

[AKM sama]

What's going on here? This topic was discussed only a few weeks back when the upgrade happened. What exactly is being proposed here? We don't use SSJ multipliers like the OP is proposing. Neither the SSB, because simply saying that the form is a super saiyan version of something doesn't automatically mean the boost in power is also same.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Neither the SSB, because simply saying that the form is a super saiyan version of something doesn't automatically mean the boost in power is also same.

Why exactly? Can you show proof that SSB isn't 50 times SSG despite literally everything in the show states otherwise? (And as for proof, SSG Goku << Base Kefla, SSB Goku << SSJ Kefla)

And even leaving SSB being 50 times SSG or not, it should at least be 50 times SSJ due to the astronomical gap in powers between them.

Saying SSB Goku is on the same league as Super Saiyan Goku breaks all scalings and makes absolutely no sense

That said, this isn't personally toward you so if you were offended by this, I apologize

 

[AKM sama]

Why exactly? Can you show proof that SSB isn't 50 times SSG despite literally everything in the show states otherwise?

The show doesn't state that. The show only states it's a super saiyan version of SSG. Yet the form has many differences than SSJ. So no reason for us to assume the boost is same.

And as for proof, SSG Goku << Base Kefla, SSB Goku << SSJ Kefla

This isn't proof. For it to be proof, you'd have to say SSB Goku > SSJ Kefla

And even leaving SSB being 50 times SSG or not, it should at least be 50 times SSJ due to the astronomical gap in powers between them.

This is the same logic as saying just because any form is astronomically stronger, we should assume it is x2. Which we don't do. We just don't assume anything and don't use it if the multiplier is not given.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The show doesn't state that. The show only states it's a super saiyan version of SSG. Yet the form has many differences than SSJ. So no reason for us to assume the boost is same.

Yes it does

 

[Orange]

What's going on here? This topic was discussed only a few weeks back when the upgrade happened. What exactly is being proposed here? We don't use SSJ multipliers like the OP is proposing. Neither the SSB, because simply saying that the form is a super saiyan version of something doesn't automatically mean the boost in power is also same.

Ah yes, let's not use ssb multiplier which is blatantly stated in the Literal name of the transformation, the description of the transformation.
We agreed upon using the multipleier of ssj which is 50x, ssb is 50x ssg since its "a super saiyan beyond god"
Unless if you want to say that they didn't specify which super saiyan, which only makes it more ridiculous because
1 they call super saiyan 1 a super saiyan
2 any other super saiyan transformation is literally above ssj1.
Now it's proof on you to prove that somehow, despite the name, the description of the transformation doesn't equal being 50x above ssg.
It's literally in the name . "Super saiyan god super saiyan "
They take the super saiyan god transformation, and add super saiyan ontop of it, which we know based on statements, feats and even this wiki acknowledges is 50 times a multiplier.

 

[sanicspood]

They take the super saiyan god transformation, and add super saiyan ontop of it

it was literally stated to lmfao

 

[Orange]

The show doesn't state that. The show only states it's a super saiyan version of SSG. Yet the form has many differences than SSJ. So no reason for us to assume the boost is same.


This isn't proof. For it to be proof, you'd have to say SSB Goku > SSJ Kefla


This is the same logic as saying just because any form is astronomically stronger, we should assume it is x2. Which we don't do. We just don't assume anything and don't use it if the multiplier is not given.

"The show only states it's a super saiyan version of it"
Which means that they take the original super saiyan And added god to it, which means they took the multipliers of ssg and added the multiplier and the attributes of ssj
No matter how you slice it and dice it, super saiyan, the original one is in this formula, which means no matter how you slice or it dice it again, it's a blatant 50x multiplier above ssg.
They literally transform into a the original super saiyan,the one in the frieza fight, which is stated to be 50x? The one with multiple feats and statement that supports it? The one this wiki acknowledges, accepts and use? Yes that one. So a super saiyan god super saiyan is a super saiyan which transcends a super saiyan god

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goodness AKM
like rational thinking says that if we have a SSJ multiplier and it’s stacked on another form (SSG) to make a new form that new form is SSJ (50x) x SSJG.

Also you guys argue about the multipliers but logically the source given multipliers are lower than that actually are and thus should be used as lowballs

 

[Orange]

Goodness AKM
like rational thinking says that if we have a SSJ multiplier and it’s stacked on another form (SSG) to make a new form that new form is SSJ (50x) x SSJG.

Also you guys argue about the multipliers but logically the source given multipliers are lower than that actually are and thus should be used as lowballs

I agree, but I don't want to "wank' even tho we are using lowballed sizes, timeframes, scaling chain, and the number of multipliers

 

[AwkguyDB]

Right lol

 

[Orange]

Ah yes
Goku transforms into ssb and states it's a super saiyan , which transcends a super saiyan god.
Explaination: goku transforms into super saiyan god, he stays in that form, then he stack super delinquent on top of it.
Super delinquent is : a 50 times multiplier
Super saiyan god super saiyan: is a super saiyan god with super saiyan on top of it, meaning they take the form super saiyan god, and adds super saiyan on top of it. Resulting in a : super saiyan god multiplier + normal of super saiyan multiplier

 

[SirAlex09]

This isn't proof. For it to be proof, you'd have to say SSB Goku > SSJ Kefla

Hold on. Base Kefla was stomping SSJG Goku while SSJ Kefla and SSJB Goku were pretty equal until Kefla's Zenkai ( which is superior to Goku's due to Kale being like Broly) kicked in and forced Goku to use Kaioken.

So both transforming actually closed the gap initially rather than making it bigger which implies that SSJB multiplier is higher than Kefla's SSJ's.
Even if we assume that SSJ Kefla was surpressed against SSJB Goku, SSJB Goku vs SSJ Kefla was more even than God Goku vs Base Kefla so the multipliers have to comparable.

So 50x is actually valid as a low end