DBH Revision?

[Greenshifter]

Uncountably infinite amount of universes is above baseline 2A

This is low 1-C, I can mathematically prove it if need to be.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I did specify that this is what i personally think, not what the wiki currently think.

I edited my previous comment. I honestly agree with you on everything, but well it is what it is

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This is low 1-C, I can mathematically prove it if need to be.

I think I understand the logic now....but we can take it to discord.....this thread is explosive powder keg as it is , on the verge of blowing up.....

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

I mean even the new universe Fu created that's a copy of U7 was stated to be a new space-time so that would further support the universes being their own space-times

 

[Greenshifter]

I haven't read the thread fully but wouldn't people need to downgrade Zen'o first before we have to argue the 12 universes are seperate space-times? Since that's currently how they're treated.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I haven't read the thread fully but wouldn't people need to downgrade Zen'o first before we have to argue the 12 universes are seperate space-times? Since that's currently how they're treated.

Why downgrade him, if I may ask? I don't get your point

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm saying that Zamasu's premise is valid unless someone manages to downgrade Zen'o.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I'm saying that Zamasu's premise is valid unless someone manages to downgrade Zen'o.

Oh, ok. That makes sense

 

[Greenshifter]

And I urge people to stop using the words "5-dimensional" when talking about this as it can get confusing just what the basis of the upgrade is.

Unless I'm missing something, Zamasu is arguing that the verse contains 3 spatial and 2 temporal dimensions, at least that's what Ultima got from it. So that is indeed 5D. This statement by DontTalkDT might be of use though since he states higher temporal dimensions are probably assumed to be large by default, not sure if this is an immediate low 1-C but it does support it.

 

[CR_Catinho]

The only gripe ultima had was that zeno didn't actually erase the timeline i think ?

But we presented arguments for why that's wasn't the case and that he did in fact nuke the entire timeline , but I don't know what his stance on the subject is rn since he didn't respond yet

 

[Stefano4444]

The 2-C Universe 7 stuff was already rejected here, unfortunately.

More like Low 2-C, there is no unquantifiable distance between Afterlife and Living World to support 2-C.

2-C its only if you count all the universes all within a timeline.

 

[Hasty12345]

I think it's more important to establish the cosmology before discussing who, what and how characters scale to it.

 

[Greenshifter]

But given the former conflicts that fact that casual Jiren was still above Zamasu but questioning whether he's above Beerus. And Beerus being unafraid of Zamasu but very afraid of Goku and Jiren.

Beerus can scale higher than he currently is so this isn't a good argument.

 

[CR_Catinho]

I agree , someone should make a cosmology blog 1st compiling the arguments

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well Zamasu-Chan did say he was making one...I think...

 

[manu_zarri]

this can be Low 1-C

since timelines are infinite meaning the space between it is definitely higher than infinite, meaning it's 5D. (in our standards)

 

[CR_Catinho]

Well Zamasu-Chan did say he was making one...I think...

We'll wait and see

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

this can be Low 1-C

since timelines are infinite meaning the space between it is definitely higher than infinite, meaning it's 5D. (in our standards)

This coupled with higher temporal dimension....means they must mesh together to form higher space-time above the already (3+1)D system....further giving credence to Low1C.

 

[Planck69]

People, I think its clear that the logic behind the upgrade is sound. We should focus on if Dragon Ball qualifies.

 

[manu_zarri]

This coupled with higher temporal dimension....means they must mesh together to form higher space-time above the already (3+1)D system....further giving credence to Low1C.

seems enough for our standards. it can even be 6D if we have feats

Btw i would specify that the framework is actually 5D, but our wiki treate the space as 5D too, so ye

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

People, I think its clear that the logic behind the upgrade is sound. We should focus on if Dragon Ball qualifies.

This is true....I did my best with providing evidence as I could....
But I think here is where the true DB experts come in....the guys who have all the relevant scans hidden in their sleeves that they can pull up anytime they want.

They should compile all the relevant info to prove that DB cosmology does fit the current system we are discussing.

 

[manu_zarri]

so since cosmology is accepted, now we should talk about feats

 

[Planck69]

It's not accepted yet. The logic behind the upgrade is sound but whether or not Dragon Ball Heroes/Super follows it is still not accepted, at least until Ultima responds again.

 

[Hasty12345]

so since cosmology is accepted, now we should talk about feats

the model being proposed as low 1-C is seemingly accepted as low 1-C, whether DBS/H fits it is still up in the air I think.

Besides, more staff input is likely needed before anything can be accepted.

 

[manu_zarri]

It's not accepted yet. The logic behind the upgrade is sound but whether or not Dragon Ball Heroes/Super follows it is still not accepted, at least until Ultima responds again.

So we are waiting for Ultima?

I wonder why they didn't the same in archie sonic Low 1-C CRT

 

[Lormac_CC]

"Be careful with that, though, since timelines are ultimately objects that can be mathematically treated like any other, and thus have hypervolume (4-volume, specifically, assuming they are 4-D continuums) that informs their size, too. So, if a spacetime continuum is explicitly finite and contained within a larger one, it's very, very plausible that the latter just has a larger hypervolume than it, but not necessarily infinitely so."

Does this wiki treat a universe in DB to be infinite

 

[manu_zarri]

"Be careful with that, though, since timelines are ultimately objects that can be mathematically treated like any other, and thus have hypervolume (4-volume, specifically, assuming they are 4-D continuums) that informs their size, too. So, if a spacetime continuum is explicitly finite and contained within a larger one, it's very, very plausible that the latter just has a larger hypervolume than it, but not necessarily infinitely so."

Does this wiki treat a universe in DB to be infinite

spatial or temporal infinite?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

"Be careful with that, though, since timelines are ultimately objects that can be mathematically treated like any other, and thus have hypervolume (4-volume, specifically, assuming they are 4-D continuums) that informs their size, too. So, if a spacetime continuum is explicitly finite and contained within a larger one, it's very, very plausible that the latter just has a larger hypervolume than it, but not necessarily infinitely so."

Does this wiki treat a universe in DB to be infinite

We're not talking about a single space time continuum here thought. We're talking about 12 space times

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What I wonder is how did this logic fly under the radar of the DB fans on this wiki for 2-3 years since end of anime....you'd think all avenues of upgrades would have been exausted by now....
And I a new member of wiki....still find people discussing presently over old stuff that should have been settled long time ago.
DBZ speed CRTs, SSJ Multipliers, DBS speed CRTs, Infinite Zamasu being Atleast low2C, Hakai stuff, Kienzan, Spirit Bomb, ....etc etc
We discuss and obsess over the stuff and upgrade them as if it happened yesterday.

 

[My_area]

"Be careful with that, though, since timelines are ultimately objects that can be mathematically treated like any other, and thus have hypervolume (4-volume, specifically, assuming they are 4-D continuums) that informs their size, too. So, if a spacetime continuum is explicitly finite and contained within a larger one, it's very, very plausible that the latter just has a larger hypervolume than it, but not necessarily infinitely so."

Does this wiki treat a universe in DB to be infinite

A single universe here is treated as Low 2-C but spatially wise 40 times baseline 3-A due to universe 7 calculation

 

[CR_Catinho]

It's not accepted yet. The logic behind the upgrade is sound but whether or not Dragon Ball Heroes/Super follows it is still not accepted, at least until Ultima responds again.

Let's just wait for him then , you can delete the unnecessary replies if you don't want him to be confused

 

[Planck69]

This model was only brought up in general recently, that's why no one thought of it for DB.

Anyway, this should preferably be the end of any casual discussion. We've made this thread long enough as it is. Any non-constructive comments from here will be deleted.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

We're not talking about a single space time continuum here thought. We're talking about 12 space times

I think what is meant here is whether the hypertimeline has physical spatial size equal to or greater than infinite.....i think.

 

[My_area]

Also since when did Dragon ball have 3 spatial and 2 temporal dimensions? They have 3 spatial dimension and 1 temporal dimension in form of universes which is then encompassed by bigger time rings which is still the same temporal dimension just overall bigger spatio-temporally.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Also since when did Dragon ball have 3 spatial and 2 temporal dimensions? They have 3 spatial dimension and 1 temporal dimension in form of universes which is then encompassed by bigger time rings which is still the same temporal dimension..

That's where this thread comes in lol

That would be the implication of how timelines work in DB.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Gilver I think they mean that a regular timeline (preferably) needs to be infinite in length, but iirc DBH might actually have that.

 

[manu_zarri]

Also since when did Dragon ball have 3 spatial and 2 temporal dimensions? They have 3 spatial dimension and 1 temporal dimension in form of universes which is then encompassed by bigger time rings which is still the same temporal dimension just overall bigger spatio-temporally.

for what i kno it's basically like that:

Vsbw treat each universe as single spacetimes, meaning it's 3 spatial + 1 temporal dimension

since they don't ingore time ring feat (but they still think that each universe is a space time) then they thinks there is a "hypertime" that would result as 3 spatial + 2 temporal dimensions

and for the end, all timelines are collected and encompressed meaning 3 spatial dimensions + 3 temporal dimensions, that's how they treat it

 

[My_area]

for what i kno it's basically like that:

Vsbw treat each universe as single spacetimes, meaning it's 3 spatial + 1 temporal dimension

since they don't ingore time ring feat (but they still think that each universe is a space time) then they thinks there is a "hypertime" that would result as 3 spatial + 2 temporal dimensions

and for the end, all timelines are they are collected and encompressed meaning 3 spatial dimensions + 3 temporal dimensions, that's how they treat it

Now..I dont see why a bigger spatio-temporal dimension encompassing space and time continums result in a presence of extra temporal dimension rather than just bigger 4D space and time continum in case of time ring

Dont think they go with all timelines being encompassed resulting in 6D due to 3 spatial and 3 temporal dimension.Proposed argument seems to propose a uncountable infinite jump from 4D infinite timelines ie multiversal+ which would be equivalent to 5D or Low 1-C

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

@Gilver I think they mean that a regular timeline (preferably) needs to be infinite in length, but iirc DBH might actually have that.

Infinite length?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

@Gilver I think they mean that a regular timeline (preferably) needs to be infinite in length, but iirc DBH might actually have that.

Oohhh okay....then we already have that covered if DBH has that.