Dante's inferno possibly 3-A

[Hellbeast]

As I said, poem is a third party thing, it is not related to the work which is very different and has different events, we do not use other works to refute another

It's the source material for the game and, while the game is not entirely faithful to the Divine Comedy's accounting of events, we do have multiple pieces of evidence that the devs modelled the game after it. We have them using Dante's original map of the nine rings of Hell, we have Virgil's dialogue lifted from the actual poem and we have multiple statements the broad strokes of the Inferno's geography being maintained.

Vergil never mentioned that hell is on earth, but rather the Universe is at the center, but once, the two of you bringing things from poem to game that is different, the work and the poem are totally different

I applied all things to Lucifer because he is the only one who scales with the destruction of the Universe, I don't see how Dante or death scales with that.

Once again, the portals are for exiting the cycles and entering hell, they are even used to exit it, as demonstrated in this Scan that I showed just above

Saying that hell is below the earth will not refute the fact that it is at the center of the Universe and is the size of the Universe, if you are going to bring any evidence, try to show it and not just your statements that cannot be supported in the work.

1) He mentioned the final ring is in the center of the universe, would you like to counter the dev statements then? 2) What? Dante beats Lucifer in the fight,this is scaling 101; he'd scale to whatever threats Lucifer made of destroying the universe. 3) Ok, first Hell is it's own universe but now it's just the size of the universe? 4) The only one who needs to support their arguments is you, me and Cornered have pointed out dialogue in game, in the game guides and in the dev team that all point to Hell being within the Earth, and I doubt you can do this because of "I refuse to respond to your points" basically being a concession of the argument

 

[Hellbeast]

Furthermore, you haven't provided any evidence that the "universe" Lucifer mentions isn't the geocentric model of the universe that Dante (who remember, the devs have taken inspiration from in terms of cosmology) likely would have subscribed to. In fact, this perfectly reconciles how Hell can both be within the Earth and at the center of the universe. You'd need to prove the game maintained the Inferno's geography (and Mount Purgatory) while then saying "nah it's a modern reconstruction of the universe lmao)

 

[Cropfist]

Disagree with any universal upgrade

 

[CorneredHarbor]

Vergil never mentioned that hell is on earth, but rather the Universe is at the center, but once, the two of you bringing things from poem to game that is different, the work and the poem are totally different

I applied all things to Lucifer because he is the only one who scales with the destruction of the Universe, I don't see how Dante or death scales with that.

Once again, the portals are for exiting the cycles and entering hell, they are even used to exit it, as demonstrated in this Scan that I showed just above

Saying that hell is below the earth will not refute the fact that it is at the center of the Universe and is the size of the Universe, if you are going to bring any evidence, try to show it and not just your statements that cannot be supported in the work.

The funny thing is i don't even need to use the poems. You are just straight up misunderstanding basic statements in the game itself. The fact that Inferno is described as a location in a certain point debunks it being a universe.

The only other thing you can fall back to is this quote from Vergil that you grossly misenterpeted:
"Not long after my own death, I saw a Mighty One come down and take forth from here a group of ancient shades. Our first parent, his son Abel, Noah, Abraham, and many others. The deep foul valley trembled on all sides, and I thought the universe felt love"

Vergil here is clearly not talking about Hell. If he was he would have said Hell or Inferno and not Universe. Just beacuse he is in Hell when saying this doesen't mean he is talking about Hell.

And to back this up even more look at this quote from Lucifer: "I will reclaim my rightful place in paradise, my path will be paved by the sins of man. And yours Dante shall be the bedrock of my return. AND ALL THAT IS GOOD SHALL BE GONE FROM THE UNIVERSE FOREVER" There is obviously nothing good in Hell. So when he says this he is refering to the one actual Universe not Inferno.

Same thing with Vergil saying Hell is in the centre. This also just proves they are seperate and cannot be used interchangeably.

This proves The universe doesn't mean Hell in the slightest. That should have been obvious from the start.

Universe=/=Inferno

 

[CorneredHarbor]

Disagree with any universal upgrade

 

[Agnaa]

Using poems is a bad argument. We care about what ended up in the work we're indexing, not parts of the piece that inspired it.

 

[CorneredHarbor]

Using poems is a bad argument. We care about what ended up in the work we're indexing, not parts of the piece that inspired it.

I brought up the poems but it's not even about that anymore. I just used the poems for some extra back up info. They are not my or Hellbeasts main argument anyway.

 

[Hellbeast]

Using poems is a bad argument. We care about what ended up in the work we're indexing, not parts of the piece that inspired it.

We’re only bringing up the poems in regards to the game

For example, we’re not using excepts but pointing out

1) Virgil’s lines are taken from the poem directly

2) the devs themselves have mentions following the general geography Dante set out for the Inferno

This might seem odd but this is supported by the game guides and visuals regarding Hell being a place within the universe. They’re only there to help support the argument that Hell isn’t it’s own universe nor is it ever implied to be one.

The only evidence that the opposition is using here is the idea Virgil’s universe in his story is Hell

 

[CorneredHarbor]

@Hellbeast
Just found a crucial piece of information that further proves hell is just in earth:

The three rivers of Hell all come from the surface at Island of Crete near Greece. Vergil says they force their way through from cavern to cavern.

 

[Hellbeast]

@Hellbeast
Just found a crucial piece of information that further proves hell is just in earth:

The three rivers of Hell all come from the surface at Island of Crete near Greece. Vergil says they force their way through from cavern to cavern.

That could be worth noting

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

As I already mentioned before, Lucifer's statements weren't solid to me, I agreed with possibly but now there seems to be a cosmology issue about Hell being inside Earth and so on. I suggest a Cosmology blog be made explaining the universe before any upgrades are made so those of us who haven't played the game know when someone is referring to the actual "universe".

My thoughts are the same as this.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

My thoughts are the same as this.

Well, I think that's enough to wrap this up, could you close it, little brother?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, I think that's enough to wrap this up, could you close it, little brother?

Were the proposals already undone?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Were the proposals already undone?

No, but if you want you can do that, I don't know how to do it.

 

[Hellbeast]

Wait so are we revoking the proposals or carrying them forward

 

[Agnaa]

LordGriffin and DDM seem to be moving from "Put this down as a possibly" to "There's enough doubt that we won't accept it as that until we get more info".

So, yeah, undo the changes, Luffy can try to present more clear evidence about the structure of the cosmology, preferably structured in a blog, Hellbeast/Cornered can rebut that, then the staff will evaluate again.

 

[CorneredHarbor]

LordGriffin and DDM seem to be moving from "Put this down as a possibly" to "There's enough doubt that we won't accept it as that until we get more info".

So, yeah, undo the changes, Luffy can try to present more clear evidence about the structure of the cosmology, preferably structured in a blog, Hellbeast/Cornered can rebut that, then the staff will evaluate again.

I see. Then we are done here.

 

[Hellbeast]

I think we could still get an upgrade based off stuff brought up but it'd be Tectonic rather then cosmic

 

[CorneredHarbor]

I think we could still get an upgrade based off stuff brought up but it'd be Tectonic rather then cosmic

Yeah, i assume we need to make a seperate thread for that.

 

[Agnaa]

Naw, if the conclusion is that this feat should actually land at tier 6, that can be handled here.