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Dante Gets Hired To Kill The Quincy King GRACE
- Thread starter RanaProGamer
- Start date
noninho
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I just noticed that the only person who actually voted is me
For Dante lmfao
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I'm from the devil's gang that cray
Killerdrone123
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Voting for dante to
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I guess I'll vote Dante for the moment.
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That's base Dante tho, DT multiplier is Idk like x3 in DMC3.
Also is this EoG Dante or EoG + FE Dante?
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What answers does Yhwach have for type 3 madness hax, regeneration and immortality negation, layered concept hax, time slow/surprise attacks, sealing and power null? Keeping in mind that demons and technically demonic powers have acausality and resistance to fate hax and probability hax.
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What's with all that? Dante isn't going to spam everything all at once
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Active when he gets angry or uses DT.
Passively attached to attacks
Passively attached to attacks
Quicksilver
Jackpot
I know. I'm presenting them as separate possible wincons. I'm not suggesting he's going to bust out everything straight away then say he's glad he checked the walkthrough first, even if that would be funny.
So I'd like to ask for the third time, does Yhwach have any answer to them, and if so, what are those answers? If Yhwach no-sells all of them then it's a stomp in his favour.
Last edited:
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Are Dante's abilities themselves resistant to the Almighty? Because the defensive passives of the Almighty give him resistance if not immunity to these abilities.
He already for instance has resistance to conceptual manipulation, sealing, and power null through Ichibei.
Regeneration and immortality negation might be dependent on how Dante does so, because Yhwach has demonstrated multiple types of regeneration and immortality while also having the Almighty provide resistance to esoteric abilities. It literally made him resistant to an Existence Erasing ability from Ichibei.
With causality manipulation and even causality manipulation negation, he has the resistances to contend with Dante's abilities while having an undeniable stat advantage.
I vote for Yhwach as no one has provided evidence of how Dante overcomes a stat advantage.
He already for instance has resistance to conceptual manipulation, sealing, and power null through Ichibei.
Regeneration and immortality negation might be dependent on how Dante does so, because Yhwach has demonstrated multiple types of regeneration and immortality while also having the Almighty provide resistance to esoteric abilities. It literally made him resistant to an Existence Erasing ability from Ichibei.
With causality manipulation and even causality manipulation negation, he has the resistances to contend with Dante's abilities while having an undeniable stat advantage.
I vote for Yhwach as no one has provided evidence of how Dante overcomes a stat advantage.
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on 2C level?
That's a strange distinction, everything Dante has are extentions of his being, even the souls of demons who became his devil arms part of his being.
So difference cannot be drawn there.
Will it help him survive the passive of DW? Not counting properties of jackpot.
We have, it's okay if someone don't agree. Some will and some won't. We will leave it to the public.
Offensively it isn't working against Dante, Dante himself doesn't have that so negation is useless.
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His defensive passive is his ability to manipulate his own fate, right? That's why I raised the type 3 madness hax, the sealing, the layers of the concept hax, etc. I'm not sure his defensive abilities beat those. I would like some input on whether demonic power in general resists fate hax, given that it comes from demons in general resisting having their fates bound by the Beastheads.
I don't know about the sealing and power null (it definitely should be layered, but someone forgot to apply the already accepted CRT for 2 years), but the concept hax is multi-layered and has worked on enemies with resistance, meaning it might just plow right through that resistance.
I raised those only because I wondered how they might interact with the Almighty. I am genuinely interested in getting the correct outcome, not just arguing for one side or the other. Dante can straight up stop regeneration, and I do wonder how that might interact with Yhwach's unique form of self-healing.
I raised that earlier too. I guess you didn't see the message. I made it directly in response to you, but I suppose notifications can be missed.
His possible answers to Yhwach's attacks are regeneration, Royal Guard's attack reflection, the power boost of Devil Trigger, accelerated development/reactive evolution, getting a hit in first with one of his haxes.
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What's the evidence for 4-A Dante having this on a 2-C level?
What is the evidence that his abilities have that resistance though.
I could argue the same for Yhwach with powers derived from the Soul King, but that's a slippery slope.
It definitely should, Dante can't turn off the Almighty.
The arguments are that Dante has a long scaling chain and can amplify his stats.
Issue is that Yhwach has a long scaling chain and can also amplify his own stats while having an initial baseline number above Dante's.
Yhwach has this advantage.
Does Dante have resistance to causality manipulation?
Yes:
The Almighty should provide resistance to Madness Type 3. It worked retroactively after being hit with a conceptual manipulating attack that removed his abilities and powers to revert the effects. With the Almighty working even in death, I don't see how it doesn't give Yhwach resistance to it.
He also already has resistance to conceptual manipulation and sealing.
What is the Concept Hax?
Assuming it were to plow through Yhwach's resistance, what stops Yhwach from retroactively reverting the effects similar to Ichibei's conceptual manipulation ability done to him?
Agree.
Yhwach has multiple forms of self-healing but the most potent are his abilities to steal life from those around him (life and death manipulation) which he can apply to himself. This with his ability to rewrite the future to change events that occurred, such as him literally dying in the present and then changing the future while dead so that he is fully alive and healed.
Regeneration negation cannot stop that since this form of healing and immortality is done through Fate Manipulation.
Dante could stop the innate regeneration, but not Yhwach's regeneration through Fate Manipulation.
Possibly, opened up to 10+ messages.
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One thing to note is that Dante's accelerated development can jump him to absurd degrees. His jump during DMC3 (4-C to 4-A if memory serves) was achieved with that ability.
Acausality. There's talks about causality manipulation and resulting resistance at the moment.
Are we sure that Ichibei's ability ever fully took effect though? We can't ignore the weird cop-out (which admittedly might be retconned soon enough) where Uryu's silver arrow could completely invalidate the Almighty by nulling Yhwach's power.
I think Dante has layers for both. The concept manipulation is very similar to Ichibei's, namely that demons can change and even erase names and by so doing nullify powers. The key is that demons also resist power like that, and yet stronger demons can still do it to them. The sealing can work on demons with dimensional travel and reality warping.
Dante does resist both of those, if I'm not mistaken. I know he resists death hax since all demons do, and life manipulation is seemingly part of what Soul Eaters do, which he resists.
One concern with that, and one that always seemed to need clarifying in the manga, was whether that was only possible because he had warning. Ichigo stabbed him in the back before launching the Getsuga Tensho that blasted his head off, which might have given him time to make that change. We've seen that there are clearly holes in the Almighty's defences, as Aizen's Kyokasuigetsu still worked and Uryu's silver arrow worked even when Ichibei's power didn't, raising the question of why one ability to remove his powers worked and lead to his death while the other failed. One difference is the fact that the arrow was a surprise attack, which he didn't know about until it had already nulled his power. Of course, another difference was plot, so who knows.
Maybe. I brought it up because it seemed worth mentioning.
Of course, if Yhwach can just say no to all Dante's abilities it becomes a stomp, if I'm not mistaken. Or inconclusive if he can't breach Dante's own defensive abilities.
We miss things when we're busy, I suppose.
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As much as it takes.
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What exactly are Dante's wincons in this situation?
ExSENNA
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Anyway, This is a stomp. Yhwach gets molested here, he can't do anything. Dante stomps the entire Bleach verse with negative difficulty.
Almighty's defensive abilities is not going to save Yhwach either, because he cannot undo his own demise if a type 4 Acausal is involved in it.
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I don't think we can reach a conclusion on that then. By the numbers, accepted multipliers, and scaling the stat advantage goes to Yhwach.
If he has Acausality then Yhwach has no means of using his Almighty to do anything towards Dante and essentially relies on just his physicals and overall stat advantage with his power based abilities.
Yes, Yhwach was fully converted under conceptual manipulation.
The sealing would have 0 effect on Yhwach, Yhwach does the same and Almighty would prevent it from occurring to him anyways.
I believe Yhwach would be able to stop this conceptual based ability as well since he had 0 resistance innately to conceptual manipulation, was hit by such an ability, and completely reverted it while gaining resistance due to the Almighty.
This would essentially be do over of the Black Ant scene once again.
Understandable.
The anime may change this, but for now we go with the manga's events.
Still Silver solely worked due to being fired by Uryu who was stated to have an ability superior to Yhwach's Almighty and the Still Silver arrow itself being a product of Yhwach's powers.
Also, the effects of Yhwach's Almighty are instant. He died when hit by Ichigo and remained dead for a small conversation between Aizen and Ichigo. Yhwach manipulated fate to revive himself while having been dead for a while and could not have done it beforehand when his Almighty was being shown different fates through Aizen.
This is what I'm thinking.
Yhwach cannot use the Almighty on Dante due to Acausality and innate resistances while Dante cannot bypass the Almighty's defensive properties to actually injure nor put down Yhwach.
Yhwach has a physical advantage, but it's arguable given Dante's scaling being a similar long chain to Yhwach while also having power amplification like Yhwach.
I think this would be inconclusive since they arguably can't actually kill the other.
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This doesn't nullify the Almighty nor change it's defensive properties Yhwach can do to himself.
This just means Yhwach can't use it offensively on Dante; therefore, Dante can't actually prevent Yhwach from undoing his own death while Dante can be physically overpowered by Yhwach but not permanently killed.
This is just a basic inconclusive fight of two similar physical tier immortals who can't affect the other with their hax due to resistances and defensive hax.
ExSENNA
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No. Yhwach cannot alter his own future if his future has an involment with a Type 4 Acausal. He can't even see it. He would not only need to save himself but undo any involment that causes his death, which he cannot do because Dante is inexplicable and unreadable to him.
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Being killed by an entity who is bounded by a different casual system doesn't change the natural casual system of death, it's still "A kills B by using an attack which abides by the regular sequence of casual actions", which Yhwach can change as explicitly shown in the series.
People need to stop wanking off these abilities when they don't even understand Acausality in the first place; much less more complex aspects about the ability.
People need to stop wanking off these abilities when they don't even understand Acausality in the first place; much less more complex aspects about the ability.
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I advise you to read the definition of Type 4 Acausal:
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
This means that Dante operates on a different system which would give himself resistance to the Almighty's Precognition, Causality Manipulation, and Fate Manipulation.
This does not nullify Yhwach's own usage of the Almighty on Yhwach.
Yhwach can't manipulate Dante's fate, but he can manipulate his own fate.
ExSENNA
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I know what Type 4 Acausality is.
What I'm saying is, since Dante is Acausal, Yhwach cannot undo his own death if it was caused by Dante. Yhwach cannot fatehax himself if his fate has an involvement with an Acausal. It would be inexplicable to him and he cannot read it. Yhwach would not only need to fatehax himself but also fatehax the reason of his death, which he cannot do.
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Yhwach's ability doesn't work like this, he sees the future(s), if he dies in those futures he can switch them up and make it so he doesn't die. This isn't dependent on if he can see the person who kills him or not; that isn't how Yhwach's Fate Manipulation operates. He can still see his own death since his own death is bounded by his casual system, he just couldn't see the person who was killing him because they're bound by a different casual system.
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Even if we say Dante's attacks are acausal themselves, the death/destruction of Yhwach's body itself would still be natural, otherwise you are basically saying Yhwach's body becomes acausal because of Dante's attacks, which is nonsensical.
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That doesn't matter because the "reason" behind Yhwach's death isn't important to Yhwach's ability to rewrite his death. He doesn't need to "understand" how or why he died for the ability to work, that's complete headcanon.
ExSENNA
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He cannot change the future in which he died because that future becomes incomprehensible due to the involvement of an Acausal. He wouldn't even know what happened and drop dead. Kinda like why ye cannot see any future with Dante in it.
For example this is what I think:
If he dies after getting hit in the head by a brick, he can change the future in which he died (why he died? got hit by a brick), but not if the brick is Acausal. (why he died? [incomprehensible void])
Like, Fatehax is kind of a mixture of Causality/Probability hax. Yhwach shouldn't just be assumed to inexplicably change the future in which he died, even when his death was caused by an anomaly he cannot even see. After all, what does he die? Did he just drop dead for no reason? There must be a reason, and the reason here is incomprehensible.
This is all I have to say here, I drop the argument here, have fun guys
For example this is what I think:
If he dies after getting hit in the head by a brick, he can change the future in which he died (why he died? got hit by a brick), but not if the brick is Acausal. (why he died? [incomprehensible void])
Like, Fatehax is kind of a mixture of Causality/Probability hax. Yhwach shouldn't just be assumed to inexplicably change the future in which he died, even when his death was caused by an anomaly he cannot even see. After all, what does he die? Did he just drop dead for no reason? There must be a reason, and the reason here is incomprehensible.
This is all I have to say here, I drop the argument here, have fun guys
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He may not see what killed him but he would still see his body getting squashed (after all, Yhwach isnt acausal himself), so he can just undo the destruction of his own body.
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That still could be a bit messy, given that Dante's development allows him to grow millions of times stronger in a few hours.
Hm... I'm not sure about that. I mean, Ichibei certainly thought he'd "black ant"ed him, but are we sure he had? It makes an enormous difference.
Actually, one difference is that the concept hax can destroy his identity including his memories, and forcibly seperate aspects of him from other aspects.
Is that actually stated? All I remember is Uryu talking about the silver arrow near the heart nullifying a Quincy's powers briefly. I also have to raise another question which is absent here. Yhwach has to have the presence of mind to use the Almighty. If he gets hit with type 3 madness hax, which drives people mad and makes them end themselves, will he really undo that with the Almighty while he's unable to think straight and ending himself?
As for the issue of the acausality also applying to the abilities, it could be true. For one thing those abilities effect acausal demons, and for another thing many of those powers are derived from demon souls which are acausal. Demonic powers come from their souls, which are their true beings (referred to as evil spirits, many construct their bodies to suit their needs) and those souls are acausal. So the powers genuinely might be.
Of course, this fight is a mess either way. If they can both keep growing and therefore not go down, and the Almighty works defensively but not offensively, it becomes inconclusive, and if Dante can beat the Almighty's defences it becomes a stomp his way. Meanwhile if we argue that Dante's defences and evolution are insufficient, it becomes a stomp Yhwach's way.
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Acausality doesn't mean that said acsaual can stop characters fate haxxing themselves like Yhwach.
He isn't manipulating Dante's fate but his own fate.
He isn't manipulating Dante's fate but his own fate.
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That I know
This one too
This is fake af
He isn't spamming that
That's his last move
Then you better word that better because it made it look like he would just spam everything at once to end the fight
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Kon would choke Dante tf out fr fr.
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Since when is your ass back?
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Few weeks ago. Came back to help out JJK and gonna do final touch-ups on Trigun.
Glad to see your still around homie, especially with that smexy Reinhard pfp.
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I see.
Not smexy enough tbh ;_;
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