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Dante (Devil May Cry) vs Kratos (God of War)

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@Xmark12

Most universe level feats in DMC are 2x above baseline, even Pluto who would be the weakest God tier in the scaling is 2x above baseline 3A.
 
Alright, after quite a bit of thought, I think I've come to my own conclusion on this match. Feel free to debate any of my points here.

Currently, a big part of Dante's AP has to do with how large the demon world is, which is currently an unknown variable. When you mix that with potential multiples in strength that his later form reaches, and the fact that all we really know about the size of the demon world is that it is astronomically big in comparison to the human world, Dante's AP/Durability could feasibly either stomp Kratos, or Kratos' AP/Durability could stomp Dante's based on a currently unknown factor. For the sake of keeping things simple, I'll assume that they are relatively similar in AP/Durability (since goddammit, this is a cool match, we all think it's a cool match, don't let it be a stomp. XD)

Without a major AP advantage either way though, what do we base this off of? Well, the offense heart from DMC2 could bump up Dante's AP quite a bit, but probably not by any match-deciding amount. It seems that the main thing to base this match off of is hax. Dante has things like Durability Negation in SDT, and if we're giving Dante all of his weapons/abilities from previous games (as the OP stated) that also means he gets an even better version of Durability Negation through the Yamato. He also has attack reflection with Royal Guard. This gives him a massive advantage in speed equalised matches, because he's been shown to nearly perfectly nullify damage and reflect it against opponents of similar speeds. On top of all that, in DMC5 he does not demonstrate the same level of "IDGAF" against similar opponents. He better understands when an opponent is a potential threat and how to react.

Kratos does also have good hax here and there, such as being able to negate durability against demons (which, well... Dante is half demon, so I think we can assume that applies). However, I've seen it mentioned on many previous matches that Kratos, despite having good hax, often does not use them in-character and will often opt to rely on pure strength. I cannot confirm for sure if this is true, but I've both seen it mentioned multiple times and my own experiences with GoW (despite not being quite as intensive as with DMC) seem to validate this. Feel free to correct me though.

Overall, they both have feasible ways to one-shot eachother with hax. There are 3 ways this match could logically go.

1: Kratos uses hax and easily beats Dante

2: Dante uses hax and easily beats Kratos

3: Neither of them use their one-shot hax before the match is eventually concluded

In the first two examples, it's obvious who wins. But for the third one, I'd probably consider it a high-difficulty win for Dante, mainly due to Kratos not having any notable ways to overcome Dante's attack reflection with Royal Guard.

So not only does Dante likely win in 2 of the 3 plausible situations, but if the previous comments about Kratos not relying on hax are correct, in comparison with Dante who is far more likely to use hax in his DMC5 depiction than before, that means Dante is probably more likely to use his hax first than Kratos is (even if I was mistaken about Kratos not relying on hax, I'm doubtful from my experiences that he relys on them as much as Dante does).

Overall, going to give this one to Dante. Either Dante uses hax and one-shot's Kratos, low difficulty, or neither of them end up relying on hax at any point in the battle in which case I'd consider it a high difficulty win for Dante. Kratos using one-shot hax is still plausible, mind you, but I'd consider it less likely than the other two situations.

Consider this 1+ vote for Dante.
 
Kratos also has good and heavily in-character Attack Reflection that can reflect even Power Nulling and Power Absorption projectiles via the Golden Fleece.
 
@Kepe does Kratos have a scaling chain like Dante? I feel like that's the major turning point here given how Dante can seal weaker foes
 
Zeus, who GoW3 Kratos is equal to, is laughably superior to the rest of the verse, to the point of being quite likely capable of one-shotting everyone else together via feats, including Poseidon and Hades, who themselves are already much superior to Ares, who is superior to Helios, who is superior to the Primordials.
 
Could we see the scaling chain? If it is higher than Dante's scaling chain then we should switch it to GoW 3 Kratos since sealing's out of the option at that point.
 
Well.

Off of the top of my head, assuming you're talking about GoW3

GoW3 Kratos <=> Zeus >>>> Atlas > Poseidon/Hades individually = Cronos >>> Ares >> Helios >> Primordials (bottom of the scaling).

If Power of Hope:

Power of Hope >>>>>> (can no-sell) Fear Zeus >>>> copy and paste the above chain here
 
Theglassman12 said:
Could we see the scaling chain? If it is higher than Dante's scaling chain then we should switch it to GoW 3 Kratos since sealing's out of the option at that point.
Click to expand...
I don't think sealing is out of the question depending on whoever has the bigger scaling chain or is stronger.DMC1 Dante using Trish's energy as a main source was able to seal Mundus who was 3A showing being superior doesn't matter.
 
I don't think either Mundus or Dante on that scene were 3-A after their intense battle. Mundus couldn't even drag himself off the floor, Dante needed to use Trish's energy, and he also remarked that they would both die on Mallet Island's explosion.
 
I don't believe a fully unsealed Mundus could be reduced to island level just by getting demonlished by Sparda form Dante either way Mundus in that instance would still be far stronger than Dante if his defeat can cause an Island to explode and Dante,who would be City level at max here, was able to seal Mundus.
 
Dienomite22 said:
I don't believe a fully unsealed Mundus could be reduced to island level just by getting demonlished by Sparda form Dante either way Mundus in that instance would still be far stronger than Dante if his defeat can cause an Island to explode and Dante,who would be City level at max here, was able to seal Mundus.
Click to expand...
Or he could be higher than 7-B if we get someone to calc the Mallet Island explosion considering it happened thanks to a severely weakened mundus
 
@Theglassman12

Sure Dante could be stronger than 7-B after he uses Sparda's power to fight Mundus but in this particular instance he was sapped of his power and used Trish's, who is 7-B, energy to seal Mundus who would be 6-C or high 7-A or whatever tier higher.That's still sealing someone who is largely superior him.
 
I have to agree with Dienomite. It's quite unlikely that Mundus would have been killed by Mallet Island collapsing, and the only real indicator of this we have is Dante saying that this place will be "your burial ground". Which... I mean, let's be honest. Dante literally met Mundus, like, at most a couple hours ago. He wouldn't know this. His word is not necessarily reliable here.

And even if he could die from Mallet Island collapsing, a 3-A dying from around a 7-B feat just because they were tired is undoubtedly PIS. When you combine this with the vagueness of how far Mundus is into 3-A, this means he quite possibly could still be 3-A and at worst he'd be slightly below 3-A. Mundus ending up as a 7-B is pure PIS, plain and simple.
 
Mundus couldn't even drag himself off the ground. The only attack he uses is a weak laser that visibly can't even finish off a decidedly-absolutely-non-3-A Base Dante who was weakened in and out of himself, needing to use Trish's freaking energy to seal Mundus.

"PIS" isn't a card to be pulled out on everything that is in discordance to one's personal point of view. It is only PIS if it actually contradicts something set in stone. Endgame Mundus was dying, could hardly even move, his only attack couldn't kill a decided non 3-A, and he thrown backwards and harmed (seeing as he screamed upon contact) by a decidedly-non-3-A attack powered from Trish's energy. Literally everything screams he wasn't 3-A on that weakened, dying, barely functioning form. You literally see most of his body has been disintegrated by the previous fight.
 
Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling.The laser is easy to dodge and hugely telegraphed by Mundus so it's not hard to imagine that in canon Dante simply dodged it and they can't eactly give Mundus a 1-shot laser attack without it feeling cheap just to show the difference in power, taking into account Dante being stated to be weaker and Mundus confidence in defeating Dante and Dante be absolutely powerless against even this "weakened" Mundus, I find it hard to believe Mundus wasn't still 3-A and if he wasn't then at the lowest he would be island level which still would make Dante sealing work on higher level beings compared to himself.
 
Kepekley23 said:
"PIS" isn't a card to be pulled out on everything that is in discordance to one's personal point of view. It is only PIS if it actually contradicts something set in stone. Endgame Mundus was dying, could hardly even move, his only attack couldn't kill a decided non 3-A, and he thrown backwards and harmed (seeing as he screamed upon contact) by a decidedly-non-3-A attack powered from Trish's energy. Literally everything screams he wasn't 3-A on that weakened, dying, barely functioning form. You literally see most of his body has been disintegrated by the previous fight.
Click to expand...
Mundus only "screams" after Dante lands the sealing shot, Dante shooting Mundus while powered by Trish's energy didn't phase him at all until Dante uses sealing.
 
Cool fight.

Both are basically equal in AP and both have a lot of counters against each other.

I'll wait until better arguments come.
 
>Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling

No, Mundus's lower half was literally disintegrated from his earlier fight. That's why he can't even drag himself off the floor.
 
And, for me, inconclusive.

Soul Ripping in God of War is a matter of strength, and Kratos has the edge on that regard. He is also passively absorbing Dante's power, speed and lifeforce in general with every hit he lands with the Blades of Exile, so that already burdens Dante quite a lot (and Dante is specially weak against life-absorbing attacks, as seen when he held that orb which was sucking his lifeforce. Nearly died from that). Anything projectile-based or even long-distance melee attacks are hard-countered by Golden Fleece.

Dante can seal but Kratos quite easily has the hax required to do Dante in before that happens.
 
Kepekley23 said:
>Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling
No, Mundus's lower half was literally disintegrated from his earlier fight. That's why he can't even drag himself off the floor.
Click to expand...
I know, but his top half by itself is still larger than than the room, you can see that in-game he opens the portal to the room,when he crawls, and by his wings.You can even compare his top half in the marble room and space and see that his top half is larger than the room by itself.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
I mean, isn't DMC1 Dante 7-B? That's the guy who sealed Mundus as he didn't have Daddy's sword.
Click to expand...
Did... did you have to call it "Daddy's Sword"?
 
I'm still comfortable with siding with Dante. The Soul Ripping stuff for Kratos doesn't seem in character (it possibly wouldn't even work) and the Blade of Exiles power and life absorption isn't anything new to Dante with the only thing being possibly hard to deal with is speed absorption but that can be dealt with via Quick Heart or Time Manipulation.Not including RG,Instinctive Reactions, DSD SS, Yamato, items, the devil triggers and other stuff that can be used for to help Dante.Dante sealing is more likely to happen than Kratos resorting to hax so my vote is with Dante.
 
@Kepe tbf, Royalguard also hard counters close quarters attacks and projectiles as much as the Fleece.

As for the match, Inconclusive for the reasons stated above.
 
Yeah, sounds pretty inconclusive.

Both basically have the same stuff and both basically have the means to one shot the other at any time. That, or both counter each other's moves.
 
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