Scottycj256
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IMO it would throw things off if I just say "He starts out with a party of demons" and noone knows wtf he starts out with lmao
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Dante (Devil May Cry 5) vs Demi-Fiend (Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne)
- Thread starter Scottycj256
- Start date
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #122
Idk if any of the demons make a difference now that I think about it, unless its like, the late game demons.
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Yeah under VSBW rules their debuffs or status ailments can't apply to Dante
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Yeah all they're good for is being a momentary distraction but due to Dante sensing power level that won't happen either
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #127
All right, I updated the demons DF uses in the battle so that they give DF more useful hax at his disposal. I forget if DF has 4 demons in a single party at once, if he doesn't then I'll just axe Cu.
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It's 3 demons+himself on a team
You really should play Nocturne and gain this information for yourself it is a good game
... And again, Loki doesn't have any buffs or debuffs (at least, in his Nocturne incarnation and not accounting for passed skills in fusion), and shadow is more towards Endgame considering you'd probably get him by the tower of Kagatsuhi, by which point you're already more than capable of fighting the likes of Metatron.
So like
Well, okay, let's just skip the rifraf and just say, he has a team of demons with various buffs and debuffs, War Cry, Rakukaja, all that.
Even if Dante is debuffed to the max, the scaling chain on him is like, what
DMC 5 Dante at the end=Vergil>>>Urizen Pos-Fruit>Urizen Pre-Fruit>>>DMC 5 Dante at start=>DMC 4 Dante>DMC 2 Dante>>>Void Mundus>>Mundus=Argosax, Despair Embodied>>>Argosax the Chaos=Low 2-C feat with a very large universe
so like, assuming they can scrape out survival via liberal use of buffs and debuffs, that's still just, mostly survival, and if Dante decides to go Devil Trigger they're probably going to be dying off anyways. Attack Mirrors may help a little bit, but, it's mostly just delaying the inevitable when the AP gap is several layers of people stomping people vs just reversing a single stomp.
... And again, Loki doesn't have any buffs or debuffs (at least, in his Nocturne incarnation and not accounting for passed skills in fusion), and shadow is more towards Endgame considering you'd probably get him by the tower of Kagatsuhi, by which point you're already more than capable of fighting the likes of Metatron.
So like
Well, okay, let's just skip the rifraf and just say, he has a team of demons with various buffs and debuffs, War Cry, Rakukaja, all that.
Even if Dante is debuffed to the max, the scaling chain on him is like, what
DMC 5 Dante at the end=Vergil>>>Urizen Pos-Fruit>Urizen Pre-Fruit>>>DMC 5 Dante at start=>DMC 4 Dante>DMC 2 Dante>>>Void Mundus>>Mundus=Argosax, Despair Embodied>>>Argosax the Chaos=Low 2-C feat with a very large universe
so like, assuming they can scrape out survival via liberal use of buffs and debuffs, that's still just, mostly survival, and if Dante decides to go Devil Trigger they're probably going to be dying off anyways. Attack Mirrors may help a little bit, but, it's mostly just delaying the inevitable when the AP gap is several layers of people stomping people vs just reversing a single stomp.
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I think if the Demi-Fiend's winning it's gonna be through status effects. I mean there's gotta be something he doesn't resist.
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #130
I've been scanning through Dante's resistances, and it seems the only status effect he doesn't resist is sleep lmao
I also updated OP AGAIN to just describe that the demons he has use status effect attacks and buffs
I also updated OP AGAIN to just describe that the demons he has use status effect attacks and buffs
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,720
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I mean even then, what do they actually do while Dante is asleep?
If they try to focus into a heavy hitting physical attack, they'll probably do some good damage but he'll Regen it off and wake right back up. They could buff and debuff to the max, but, again, the gap is way too big overall on everything save speed, which would still be countered by just using devil trigger.
If they try to focus into a heavy hitting physical attack, they'll probably do some good damage but he'll Regen it off and wake right back up. They could buff and debuff to the max, but, again, the gap is way too big overall on everything save speed, which would still be countered by just using devil trigger.
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,720
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Also instinctive reactions would not move his body while Dante is asleep or well I think so?
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #135
Is this actually a ******* stomp? lmao
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,720
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Canon Dante stomps a demi fiend? Oh this is my best day
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So we gonna hakai this then?
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I suppose the match could be changed to an earlier Dante with lower AP
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Is it? Wasn't it said in some manuals it was a 2x increase?
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Isn't DMC 1 Dante only tier 2 with his devil trigger? Maybe that could work idk
Oliver_de_jesus
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the problem is that dmc1 Sparda DT dante is basically 2 times the baseline in the best of cases, so it would be a stomp in favor of Demi-fiend
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Yeah, true. No real way to make a good matchup
Wait, guys, I just found another Dante that's in the same key as the Demi-Fiend!
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Well how about Demi Fiend vs Dracula?
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #150
Demi Fiend already fought that Dante, I made this match specifically because Shin Megami Tensei was downgraded from 2-C to Low 2-C, and because canon Dante is Low 2-C.
But yeah, Dante seems to stomp Demi Fiend completely and thoroughly lmao, might as well close it.
Scottycj256
He/Him- 1,770
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- #151
I was actually expecting Demi Fiend to win against Dante yet again, because of the amount of sheer hax present in Shin Megami Tensei that all of the protags and even demons have been shown of no selling, and having that being thrown at Dante. I guess Dante having all of the stuff that actually makes him him really does make a difference, compared to when he fought Demi Fiend in Nocturne.
I can't help but feel sorry for Demi Fiend if he ever finds and fights Vergil...
Also I can't help but wonder why tf all of my big matchups have ended up being stomps. First Doom Slayer vs Ichigo and now this...
Also I can't help but wonder why tf all of my big matchups have ended up being stomps. First Doom Slayer vs Ichigo and now this...
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Honestly SMT's hax is absolutely nowhere near impressive as the profiles try to make it out to be
If you read the profiles you'd probably think Almighty attacks were absolute, all powerful blasts that will kill anything without good defensive hax
When really it just boils down to resistance, absorption, and attack reflection negation.
Not to mention some of the stuff on the demon physiology page is wanked but
Yeah, someone like Dante can absolutely kill Demi-Fiend via just killing them
... I will admit, up to this point I have forgotten about observation but we barely have a frame of reference to how much observation does to depower opponentsheck all it does to YHVH is send him into a somehow harder phase of his boss fighfight lol but yeah
If you read the profiles you'd probably think Almighty attacks were absolute, all powerful blasts that will kill anything without good defensive hax
When really it just boils down to resistance, absorption, and attack reflection negation.
Not to mention some of the stuff on the demon physiology page is wanked but
Yeah, someone like Dante can absolutely kill Demi-Fiend via just killing them
... I will admit, up to this point I have forgotten about observation but we barely have a frame of reference to how much observation does to depower opponents
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Isn't it kinda weird that all demons, even crummy, weak ones have immortality but this powerful half-demon doesn't?
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Yeah, I was joking. Though, technically this Demi-Fiend has never fought Dante, since we use the canon version, AKA the Raidou one.
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Well, the whole point of Lucifer's tests were to see if he was worthy of immortality, him fighting the fiends was him repeatedly conquering death and scrapping away from his end at nearly every turn. Honestly it's my personal explaination for why the hard mode tutorial in particular is so unrelentingly brutal. Chaos doesn't joke around with it's ideology man, it's sink or swim till you get to the 6th kalpa.
