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D&D AP CRT and other fun acronyms.

Vecna should have causality manipulation, sealing, fire manipulation, necromancy, statistics amplification, status effect inducement, fate manipulation, sleep manipulation, BFR, pocket reality manipulation, water manipulation, creation, just to name a few.
 
Dunno if I'm late for this, but, "Destroy the world" is way too vague to assume it means the GBE gets overpowered. It could mean surface wiping, the planet gets atomized, the planet gets Type 3 Madness Manipulation all over it's everywhere, there are so many interpretations that I think it just supporting High 6-A would be a better idea.
 
Well, to go in depth, in D&D destroying the World means total obliteration, destroying the world, as the Leviathan (If I remember correctly), eats the World and is birthed from it as if the World was just it's egg.
 
Then it should be stated to be oblitherated then just an extremely vauge statement

.... Then again oblitherated could also mean Pulverized which is moon level....

Nevermind, point is, if that's the case, planet level is fine.
 
@DMUA Give me some time to get some statements. It doesn't mention the whole rebirth egg thing, but it does talk about the leviathan destroying the planet
 
I mean, the file is too smol for me to read considering it would practically pixelate if I tried to zoom in, but, again, I think it's okay.
 
Well, to be honest, the Leviathan could very well be Universal, as he's "Nothing less than the raw chaos resulting from the creation of the World given flesh."
 
Also, all Gods should be given Law and Chaos Manipulation:

"When the Gods created the worlds and the various planes of existence, they did so by manipulating law and chaos, adding one to the other, subtracting, combinding, subdividing."
 
The Leviathan is just the result of a world forming. Its the negative number to balance the positive number.
 
Is it just the World and not the Universe? Because in the screenshots you showed they compared "Worlds" to the Planes. Which many are Infinite. And often times, "Worlds" are used as a Synonym for Universe.
 
Much better

.... Though do avatars really scale if it basically kills itself by doing it's 5-B feat? I mean, how would they really even stop them if they're dead before they're stoppable?

"If brought fully awake, the Levithan will destroy the world, and in doing so destroy itself."

... Oh wait is also says that "nothing short of a God can stop it"

You can tell I am not the kind of guy to dive into lore.
 
Are we getting Low 2-C demigods? That... probably makes sense. Demigods being Low 2-C, greater and intermiate gods being 2-C, and greater gods being 2-A makes sense by the cosmology.
 
> Is it just the World and not the Universe?

Worlds. The planes, or at least the Prime Material Plane, existed before the Gods. The Outer Planes were likely shaped by them however.

> Are we getting Low 2-C demigods

Nah. Demigods are considered weak enough to not endanger the Materiel Plane, while even the worst Lesser God is banned due to the risk of destroying or damaging it.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Important stuff that I don't want left by the wayside:
  • For the tiers of base giants and things that scale to them, going by their feats, I think the best way to handle it would be something like the following:
Hill giants (currently CR 5) should be rated as "At least City Block level+", which is the magnitude 4.5 interpretation of the first feat. The "At least" is due to the fact this feat is accomplished by the giant walking, and a slightly lower feat can be accomplished just by the giant yelling.

Stone giants (currently CR 7) should be rated as "Multi-City Block level", which is the magnitude 5.0 interpretation of the first feat. This rating can be justified via the feat itself, but also by being much stronger than hill giants, even if we use the lower interpretation (as even with this interpretation, hill giants are very close to MCB level just by walking).

Frost giants (currently CR 8) should also be "Multi-City Block level", just to a higher degree than stone giants.

Fire giants and cloud giants (both currently CR 9) should be "At least Multi-City Block level" due to being much stronger than stone giants and still notably superior to frost giants.

Storm giants don't pay any mind to this because they're currently CR 13 at the weakest and thus scale to the Small City level+ feats of adult dragons.

I can't remember if there are any 3rd, 4th, or 5th level spells with results higher than these, but if not, these would be the new basic ratings for CR 5-9 monsters and adventurers levels 5-9. It should be noted that if it's decided that the feat should be MCB as opposed to CB+, the only thing this changes beyond hill giants is that the "At least" should start at stone giants, and that frost, fire, and cloud giants should have a "likely higher".

  • I'm a little confused by the Mind Flayer profile, which I believe is the only profile we currently have which would be affected by this. It seems like the page is meant for the race as a whole, in which case, it should have at least six or so additional keys for the other most notable forms (Alhoon | Illithilich | Elder Brain | Ulitharid | Mindwitness | Neothelid). I'm also a little confused as to why the basic Mind Flayer Sorcerer/Arcanist is Low 7-B, as in 5e, your average MF Arcanist is only CR 8 (compared to an average Mind Flayer's CR 7). The only 5e forms that would be comparable to or vastly above your average adult legendary dragon are the Elder Brain (CR 14), the neothelid (CR 13), and the extremely powerful Illithilich (CR 22).
  • I think the beholder's intelligence is pretty undersold by "Intellectual". Going by the descriptions we're given, it should fall somewhere between extraordinary genius and supergenius.
  • The beholder's page should have Mind Manipulation (its Charm Ray is objectively this on top of empathic manipulation) and Soul Manipulation (necrotic damage is flat out stated to be capable of damaging both flesh and soul in 5e).
  • The Beholder page should have an added key for the Death Tyrant. Unlike many other monsters, it's a true beholder as opposed to just a reanimated corpse, possessed body, or beholderkin.
  • Some beholders have different types of eye rays, with some examples even listed in Volo's. I don't know exactly how we should add these to the page, as a beholder does not have all these abilities at all times, but we should make note of them. I'll list abilities these would add in parentheses. These include:
Antimagic Cone => mirage arcane (Perception Manipulation, Illusion Creation), power word stun

Charm Ray => banishment (BFR), confusion

Death Ray => circle of death, feeblemind

Disintegration Ray => chain lightning (Electricity Manipulation), eyebite

Enervation Ray => create undead (Life Manipulation), polymorph (Matter Manipulation, Transmutation)

Fear Ray => gaseous form (limited Intangibility), moonbeam (Light Manipulation)

Paralyzing Ray => modify memory (Memory Manipulation), silence (Sound Manipulation)

Petrification Ray => Otto's irresistible dance (I don't even know how to classify this), wall of ice (Ice Manipulation)

Sleep Ray => blindness/deafness (Perception Manipulation), misty step (Teleportation)

Slowing Ray => bestow curse (Curse Manipulation), sleet storm (Ice Manipulation)

Telekinesis Ray => geas (Mind Control), wall of force (Forcefield Creation)


I can probably do most of this stuff on my own. I just need to make sure everything is actually agreed upon and not forgotten. Pages that aren't god level often seem to be.
Click to expand...
Bumping this shit considering it almost immediately went back into a conversation about gods and the Leviathan.
 
Righty ho.

1. I'm unsure of the MCB thing. Especially since only the giants have these feats and we don't know if they have the range needed to qualify as an Earthquake like effect. Hell even the Jurassic Park dinosaurs caused a glass outside to shift about but they don't have Tier 8 AP.

2. Mind Flayers and the Ogre page. Ogre Mages fit into that scale.

3. The Mind Flayer page does need more keys. An absurd amount, in fact. If we count the race as a whole, it'd also include the many side-species, their tadpole form, and possibly some scarier mutants like the Brainstealer Dragon (image on the page). The current page is for what one might call the most basic form of a Mind Flayer. The sorcerer is CR 17 by 3.5e's version, which is the Monster Manual I use. Perhaps 5e uses a weaker idea of a sorcerer? Or their CR ratings are weird.

4. Beholder stuff seems legitimate and should be fine to add. Maybe a note should be had saying some of his rays are interchangeable?
 
1. Giants are explicitly mentioned as being in the distance when this happens, and that it can be felt before even their footsteps are heard (which are also often mistaken for distant thunder). Causing a quake effect with enough force to knock rocks from nearby hillsides and cause trees to sway is definitely more than what is required to rattle a nearby glass (which would actually probably be in-line with or slightly above where the JP dinos are currently rated). Keep in mind that a giant yelling in the distance or slamming a weapon on its shield produces a similar, albeit lesser effect. Even going with the lesser interpretation, the CR 5 hill giant would be CB+, very close to MCB. Stronger giants could very easily qualify.

2. Yes, those would be the two we have, so far. Also, did you see my comment about splitting the Ogre and the Ogre Mage profiles? The Ogre Mage (now just always referred to as the Oni) has been a separate creature since 4e, and is now decidedly different than an Ogre.

3. It definitely does, and I'd be happy to add some of those. 5e's Mind Flayer Sorcerer (the Arcanist) is only CR 8. With that key, it might be best to acknowledge both variations (weaker and stronger MF sorcerers).

4. Yeah. That could probably be added under the Notable Attacks section, or something.
 
1. I'm hesitant but if we decide that Giant's steps are equivalent to a Mag 5 Earthquake then I guess not much I can do. That said, the requirements in terms of Mercalli Intensity Scale would be a VI, or the following:

"Felt by all, many frightened. Some heavy furniture moved; a few instances of fallen plaster. Damage slight."

It would have to cause (albeit slight) damage to the locale and shit would have to be displaced (I imagine we could count carts and the like as heavy furniture).

2. Oh. Sure, yeah, feel free to split it I guess. Didn't know Ogre Magi ascended to their own species.

3. So the Sorcerer would be "Varies from Blank to Low 7-B". Okay.

4. Yeah maybe. Feel free to add that stuff, you've got my permission at least. Might be best to wait for Qawsed just in case.
 
1. Hill Giants would get the MCB as well if we decided on mag 5. I personally thought it would be a bit safer to treat it as intensity V/mag 4.5, as it seems to match descriptions more closely (easily felt and noticed outside, shakes stones loose and causes them to tumble down hills, knocks dishes from shelves). This would be "At least City Block level+" (~84.8 tons of tnt just from the hill giant walking/yelling/performing minor actions). Stone giants would get "Multi-City Block level" from being significantly stronger than hill giants (who themselves would already be on the verge of MCB). They just wouldn't be as far in as if we treated the initial quakes as mag 5/intensity VI instead of mag 4.5/intensity V.

The order I proposed was:

CR/level 5-6: At least 8-B

CR/level 7-8: 8-A

CR 9: At least 8-A

2. Will do.

3. Yes, that seems like a good idea.

4. I would also like his opinion.
 
Upscaling like that is a bit... weird.

This would effectively take the current 9-A to High 8-C tiers and change them to 8-B to 8-A, correct?

I'm still unsure. We have one feat on that level (that is, minor actions from giants causing shaking at some distance). We have an 8-C one if you count the other giant feat. Is there anything else?
 
The 8-B feat (giants causing notable quakes both by walking and by yelling/hitting something) and two 8-C feats (giants being able to accidentally crush houses and giants being able to completely level houses in one swing).

If you want me to find more stuff from lower-end monsters, I can definitely do that, but I can assure you that mid to high Tier 8 for the second tier of play (levels 5-10) is very much within reason. Characters are supposed to be fighting threats to entire cities and kingdoms at this level, which would fall in line with "things that can casually level a house or cause medium quakes with minor activity".
 
The two 8-Cs are the same thing one is just accidental.

I'd like that, yes, preferably from a similar CR species that isn't a Giant. And... depends on the DM for what the characters should be doing, but alright.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
And... depends on the DM for what the characters should be doing, but alright.
Click to expand...
No, I mean officially, Wizards says this is the general idea of how play experience should change as you gain levels. YMMV of course, but this is the general idea they present.

"In the second tier (levels 5-10), characters come into their own. Many spellcasters gain access to 3rd-level spells at the start of this tier, crossing a new threshold of magical power with spells such as fireball and lightning bolt. At this tier, many weapon-using classes gain the ability to make multiple attacks in one round. These characters have become important, facing dangers that threaten cities and kingdoms." - Player's Handbook, pg 15
 
I thought you meant more severe than that, from what it sounds like that could be anything as simple as participating in a military thing

But noted.
 
Oh no, if it was like "these guys should be fighting things that can level cities in one shot", most of the stuff in the tier of play would seem really weak by comparison. lol
 
Yeah. As it says in the OP, Wizard will undergo an enormous CRT to be a Composite Adventurer. This includes having all the abilities and such that D&D has in-canon.

So basically a Kirby-type page.

fml.
 
I get it

Basically imagine a page that was one character with the combined history of all of Marvel combined into one little creature that has access to a literally absurd amount of spells and equipment. Because that's what a composite adventurer would be.
 
Huh. Here's a little something that doesn't affect AP, but might be notable for speed.

Storm giant lightning is definitely comparable to natural lightning. The exact same connection to the elements that storm giants use for their elemental/magic attacks allows them to literally turn into an actual storm (blizzard, massive hurricane, thunderstorm, etc.).

"To forestall the inevitable, some storm giants approaching the end of their natural life spans seek an escape from death. They plumb the depths of their powerful connection to the elements and disperse themselves into nature, literally transforming into semiconscious storms. The blizzard that rages unendingly around a mountain peak, the vortex that swirls around a remote island, or the thunderstorm that howls ceaselessly up and down the rugged coastline could, in fact, be the undying form of a storm giant clinging to existence." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 150

If literally being able to turn into a thunderstorm that is indistinguishable from a normal one and shoot lightning by tapping into your elemental connection with nature isn't enough to say "storm giants use lightning that is comparable to natural lightning", then...well, I don't know what to say.
 
Eh. I dunno.

Still our current Hypersonic rating comes from being comparable to normal lightning from some range so no worries.

Also that'd be an interesting ability for a Storm Giant page should one get made.
 
Yeah, it would be a neat ability. Most of the "advanced" giants are pretty interesting.

Though technically, at worst that would still give the storm giant MHS attack speed. It's literally shooting lightning out of its body (a thunderstorm), and it's perfectly capable of doing so in its giant and elemental forms.

Though it seems weird for literally nothing to scale to the storm giant quintessent.
 
While looking for more stuff for the Composite Adventurer I found the stat block of the 4E Tarrasque

Which the 4E version looks to have an arua that munipulates gravity.

and it looks to also resists Durability Negation.
 
Wrong thread, Stitch kek
 
Lumi's rating comes from Mystara being either 8D and Infinite D. Scaling from Super Space isn't warranted since it likely means 4 or 5-D in context.
 
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