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D&D AP CRT and other fun acronyms.

If one were to tie all the feats together:

Disconnected from Reality


Infinite in all dimensions.

Superspace is POSSIBLY infinite-D.

She's possibly beyond any of the regular Gods and Immortals.

Etc.
 
Also, to be fair, the Lady of Pain's statements and feats has more of an argument to be High 1-B then the Far Realm does with it's, as far as I know, 1 statement with it being disconnected from Reality.
 
Infinite in all dimensions.
Superspace is POSSIBLY infinite-D
~ Udlmaster​
These...

Are the same thing.

And so is being beyond Immortals.

All of which I still am heavily against since this is essentially trying to make one D&D Multiverse when there are multiple settings, each with their own Multiverse.
 
The disconnected from reality thing feels like its just talking about how the city is in relation to the multiverse. It's connected to every place and plane in existence but is part of none of them.

Also its hard for the city to be disconnected from reality when anyone can visibly see it in the Outlands/Plane of Concordant Opposition
 
Well, apparently, they can't? Because it's on an infinite spire, so one shouldn't be able to see it.


Also:

The "Infinite in all dimensions" is a different statement not even from Mystara, it's from a Planescape setting guide.

Superspace is a different basket which again, isn't from Mystara either. Neither of them are.

Being above the immortals is a given, since the Immortals have stats whiles the Lady doesn't, so, by default, if you Immortal character went to go hit the Lady, he'd find a Shadow cast over him and he'd be very very died, if he somehow found his way into Sigil in the first place.
 
1. Superspace doesn't matter, again, it generally means 5-D and you're taking it out of context.

2. Show me the infinite in all dimensions thing? That could easily mean dimensions as in universes since D&D has done that before.

3. Literally game mechanics lol.
 
I'd like to clarify that "infinite in all dimensions" can also mean "infinite in all dimensions that something actually exists in". A 3-D object with infinite length, width, and height would be infinite in all its dimensions.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I'd like to clarify that "infinite in all dimensions" can also mean "infinite in all dimensions that something actually exists in". A 3-D object with infinite length, width, and height would be infinite in all its dimensions.
Click to expand...
I know, I took that into account, but in said Guide, which is for 5e, not all the Planes are Infinite as in the 3 cardinal directions, some, like Celestia, were changed as said above.

By said above, I mean I literally already went over it with Qa above.
 
Udlmaster said:
snip
Click to expand...
Let's address this slowly.

1. We've already talked about this, not jumping down that rabbit hole again.

2. Page boyo.

3. Except it had actual effect. If we're being technical all things are game mechanics. But the whole "LADY CAN'T BE BEAT REE" is literally making a lack of stats and blatant NLF (and something that isn't true) as a feat. Lady specifically has equals. You're taking the fact that a High 2-A one-shots players as an implication of Tier 1 because who cares about logic really.
 
Um, there's no 5th Edition Planescape guide. In fact there hasn't been an official Planescape campaign book since 2e. If that book is about 5e it's probably from a fan site like Planewalker.com or something. Not saying the book is bad, just not official.
 
1. Then don't say I'm taking things out of context then, an assertion to which you have no proof of.

2. Page 3 Middle of the Page.

3. I never claimed No Limits, I just claimed that beings with Stats in the verse lose to her on the basis that she is as powerful as the GM wants her to be, without stats, she basically always wins because IN THE VERSE, she's not supposed to lose what so ever. (At least in the base game.)

Now, out of the Verse, of course she can't just one shot anything because she has no stats, yes, that would be NLF if I said that, but I didn't.
 
1. Oof.

2. Read Qawsed's post.

3. That is no limits. Especially considering you're now relying on "she's as powerful as the GM wants her to be". Yeah, obviously. A Flumph can be infinite dimensional if the GM wants it to be that doesn't affect what is on our site my guy. We use what is official. And the whole "LOP is stronkest because no stats ergo she auto wins" is blatantly wrong, since she is directly stated to have equals.
 
IQawsedf234 said:
Um, there's no 5th Edition Planescape guide. In fact there hasn't been an official Planescape campaign book since 2e. If that book is about 5e it's probably from a fan site like Planeswalker.com or something. Not saying the book is bad, just not official.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, it looks offical? To be honest, I didn't think it was a fan creation due to how it looks? As well, it was the first result when I was looking for a citation for "Planescape handguide"
 
> I'm not sure, it looks offical?

Here's the offical WotC merchandise page . There's zero planescape modules after 2e.

> To be honest, I didn't think it was a fan creation due to how it looks?

It comes from this site . More spefically the section "CAMPAIGN WORLDS"


This is the "official" site for this classic, evocative, and innovative 2nd edition campaign setting. There is also this fan-created 5th edition Planescape page, as well as my cobbled-together 5th Edition Campaign Guide and Guide to Sigil.
​
 
Here are some of the quotes I wanted to mention, before.

  • This one's kind of major. Giants create earthquakes with their footsteps. These earthquakes are clearly noticeable when outside, cause trees to sway from side to side, and cause stones to fall down nearby hills. Going by the description, this would likely qualify for something around the bounds of magnitude 4.5 or possibly 5.0. That's pretty solid just by walking. Both of these would be mid to high-end Tier 8.
"Encountering a giant can be an awe-inspiring experience. First comes the rhytmic booming, felt more than heard, that resolves slowly into the sound of footsteps: a giant is near! Loose stones vibrate and tumble down the hillside. Trees sway, then bend aside as the colossus emerges." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 18

  • A lower-end Tier 8 feat, but still with zero effort on the giant's part. Giants can crush houses or overturn ships just by shifting their weight carelessly.
"If a giant sits on a wagon, its wheels and axles are liable to snap like twigs. A giant can crush a house or capsize a ship simply by carelessly shifting its weight. An ox that strays too close to a sleeping giant could wind up pinned or crushed if the giant rolls over suddenly." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 18

  • A giant yelling or hitting a weapon against its shield in the distance can also cause notable shaking. I'm pretty sure this on its own is tier 8, as well. Keep in mind that the shaking from a giant's footsteps usually travels farther than the sound they make, as well. That's saying something.
"The footsteps of a giant in the distance are often initially mistaken for thunder, even on a clear day. The sounds of a giant beating a weapon against its shield and bellowing a challenge to foes are strident enough to knock dishes from shelves and rattle doors in their frames." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 18

  • Yet another tier 8 feat. Unsurprisingly, a giant could completely level a house in one swing.
"A charging warhorse at full gallop, capable of bowling over a line of human warriors, merely crumples against the bulk of a giant. A giant could kick a cart with enough force to send it smashing through a house, and a giant's club--the size of, if not actually, an entire tree--could level the same house with a single blow." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 18


Will post more stuff if I find it, but this is notable because it scales to all giants. The weakest of the normal giants, hill giants, are CR 5. This is really quite solid stuff for level 5 adventurers and CR 5+ monsters, in most cases.
 
That's... very interesting.

This would effectively upgrade Giants from their baseline 9-A position to... what, 8-B?

If it's not too much to ask, do you have anything to support it from a non-giant? Just to be sure this particular class of monster isn't the exception and not the standard.
 
Spells wise I think Immolation got a 8-B feat assuming that it can turn an Iron Golem to ash. Although to my knowledge Iron Golems are typically immune to magic.
 
@Mr. Bambu

Going by the earthquake power chart and descriptions of magnitude on the richter scale, the first feat would be between 8-B+ and 8-A, the second and fourth would be 8-C (unrelated to said chart, just simply "one-shot an entire house"), and the third would be 8-B. So your baseline giant would be either 8-B+ or 8-A, maybe with an "At least" for the lower one depending on what was decided.

Coincidentally, something just like that comes up in the frost giant section, where it mentions that since frost giants only care about strength, non-giants who can beat them in a fight/overpower them are welcomed into the tribe, should they wish. This includes particularly powerful humans.

"Because strength is their only standard of measurement, frost giants are more likely than other giants to welcome a non-giant into their group. The might of a human who hunts polar bears bare-handed as the frost giants do, or who wrestles a frost giant into submission, can't be denied. Such a human could never become the chieftan of a tribe but could earn a place of honor as one blessed by Thrym." - Volo's Guide to Monsters, pg 27
 
2e said a similar-ish thing. Other races could use giant weapons if they had the strength, its just that they lacked the proper size to make effective use of them.
 
Depends on context but potentially, yes. Zero dimensional.
 
Portable Hole is Non-Dimensional while the Bag of Holding is Extra-Dimensional, and they create a rift in Space-Time to the astral plane, blah, blah, blah.
 
Ah.

I assume it's just D&D using what I'd call dimensional techno-babble. They probably just mean they are pocket dimensions.
 
Important stuff that I don't want left by the wayside:

  • For the tiers of base giants and things that scale to them, going by their feats, I think the best way to handle it would be something like the following:
Hill giants (currently CR 5) should be rated as "At least City Block level+", which is the magnitude 4.5 interpretation of the first feat. The "At least" is due to the fact this feat is accomplished by the giant walking, and a slightly lower feat can be accomplished just by the giant yelling.

Stone giants (currently CR 7) should be rated as "Multi-City Block level", which is the magnitude 5.0 interpretation of the first feat. This rating can be justified via the feat itself, but also by being much stronger than hill giants, even if we use the lower interpretation (as even with this interpretation, hill giants are very close to MCB level just by walking).

Frost giants (currently CR 8) should also be "Multi-City Block level", just to a higher degree than stone giants.

Fire giants and cloud giants (both currently CR 9) should be "At least Multi-City Block level" due to being much stronger than stone giants and still notably superior to frost giants.

Storm giants don't pay any mind to this because they're currently CR 13 at the weakest and thus scale to the Small City level+ feats of adult dragons.

I can't remember if there are any 3rd, 4th, or 5th level spells with results higher than these, but if not, these would be the new basic ratings for CR 5-9 monsters and adventurers levels 5-9. It should be noted that if it's decided that the feat should be MCB as opposed to CB+, the only thing this changes beyond hill giants is that the "At least" should start at stone giants, and that frost, fire, and cloud giants should have a "likely higher".

  • I'm a little confused by the Mind Flayer profile, which I believe is the only profile we currently have which would be affected by this. It seems like the page is meant for the race as a whole, in which case, it should have at least six or so additional keys for the other most notable forms (Alhoon | Illithilich | Elder Brain | Ulitharid | Mindwitness | Neothelid). I'm also a little confused as to why the basic Mind Flayer Sorcerer/Arcanist is Low 7-B, as in 5e, your average MF Arcanist is only CR 8 (compared to an average Mind Flayer's CR 7). The only 5e forms that would be comparable to or vastly above your average adult legendary dragon are the Elder Brain (CR 14), the neothelid (CR 13), and the extremely powerful Illithilich (CR 22).
  • I think the beholder's intelligence is pretty undersold by "Intellectual". Going by the descriptions we're given, it should fall somewhere between extraordinary genius and supergenius.
  • The beholder's page should have Mind Manipulation (its Charm Ray is objectively this on top of empathic manipulation) and Soul Manipulation (necrotic damage is flat out stated to be capable of damaging both flesh and soul in 5e).
  • The Beholder page should have an added key for the Death Tyrant. Unlike many other monsters, it's a true beholder as opposed to just a reanimated corpse, possessed body, or beholderkin.
  • Some beholders have different types of eye rays, with some examples even listed in Volo's. I don't know exactly how we should add these to the page, as a beholder does not have all these abilities at all times, but we should make note of them. I'll list abilities these would add in parentheses. These include:
Antimagic Cone => mirage arcane (Perception Manipulation, Illusion Creation), power word stun

Charm Ray => banishment (BFR), confusion

Death Ray => circle of death, feeblemind

Disintegration Ray => chain lightning (Electricity Manipulation), eyebite

Enervation Ray => create undead (Life Manipulation), polymorph (Matter Manipulation, Transmutation)

Fear Ray => gaseous form (limited Intangibility), moonbeam (Light Manipulation)

Paralyzing Ray => modify memory (Memory Manipulation), silence (Sound Manipulation)

Petrification Ray => Otto's irresistible dance (I don't even know how to classify this), wall of ice (Ice Manipulation)

Sleep Ray => blindness/deafness (Perception Manipulation), misty step (Teleportation)

Slowing Ray => bestow curse (Curse Manipulation), sleet storm (Ice Manipulation)

Telekinesis Ray => geas (Mind Control), wall of force (Forcefield Creation)


I can probably do most of this stuff on my own. I just need to make sure everything is actually agreed upon and not forgotten. Pages that aren't god level often seem to be.
 
"Otto's irresistible dance (I don't even know how to classify this)"

Reminds me of Cal asking what Bill forcing gideon to constantly dance was. It's actually not as rare as power as you would think.
 
Oh, two more things I forgot.

  • The ogre's page mentions an "Ogre Mage". Unless this is referring to something entirely different, the "ogre mage" has been more commonly referred to as an "oni" for more than a decade now and has been clarified to not actually be an ogre, but a distant relative. The ogre mage key should be removed since they haven't been treated as remotely the same creature for a long time, to my knowledge. The Oni would also scale to something like a stone giant, making it 8-A.
  • I don't think the Empyrean's "Non-Corporeal" needs the qualifier. Its body is supposed to have a similar makeup to things like the avatars of the gods, where normal weapons and attacks pass right through it.
 
We'll have to compile a MASSIVE list of the spells, as Wee Jas actively knows and can prepare every single spell in existence and can create more on the fly, while others like Boccob CAN prepare all spells in existence.
 
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