CW Flash Revision

[ByAsura]

? Also it’s all about acceleration with Wally vs Savitar, not speed.

They never say that. They just say the level of speed Barry needs, from his current level, is far higher than any progression he's ever had.

Imma need a clip on that one cause that’d be a massive multiplier.

Season 3 Episode 11.

• Julian: This is your current top speed, and this is where you need to be in May to cover that distance in 0.21 seconds. At your current rate of improvement, impossible.

You'll have to see the graph itself.

That was in reference to King Shark and Grodd, I edited my comment.

Same thing applies to them. In fact, they don't train nearly as much as the Legends, let alone Barry (I'm excluding Wally, btw).

Even if you compare speedsters as active as him, especially someone with a higher natural progression rate like Wally, his amps completely eclipse them.

 

[ByAsura]

Alright, pending those calculations, these are my placeholder ratings.

Firstly, I'll have to explain something that I talked about before. Kid Flash in the Rival timeline was stated to be mach 2, and Wally was at mach 2 when his powers by Invasion!

• I make you a friction-proof suit so your clothes don't explode at mach 2, and you leave me out of your brother/sister war on crime.

When Barry also gets back to the normal timeline, his speed is put at mach 3 alongside Jesse.

So Rival, for certain, scales to Season 1/2 Flash.

Secondly, Season 1 Barry has broken bones running. So I think his durability should only scale by the time of his Season 1 Episode 7 amp. This is supported by the fact that he goes from breaking his wrist to taking no damage from supersonic punches.

Attack Potency: Wall level physically, Large Building level+ with the Speed Force (Faster than Rival, who can generate F3 tornadoes). At least City Block level with amp (Severely injured Zoom, even after he added Barry's speed to his own) | Wall level physically. At least Large Building level+ with the Speed Force (Superior to his early Season 2 levels of speed. Consistently defeated the Rival) to at least City Block level (Appears to have regained his previous levels of speed by the Dominator Invasion. Increased his speed enormously throughout the Season) | Wall level physically, Large Town level+ with the Speed Force (Destroyed DeVoe's satellite after he increased its mass a thousand-fold)

Durability: Wall level physically, Large Building level+ with Speed Force Aura (Can withstand his own lightning, which is generated from the energy he produces while running). At least City Block level with amp | Wall level physically. At least Large Building level+ to at least City Block level with the Speed Force | Wall level physically, Large Town level+ with the Speed Force

Key: Late Season 1/Season 2 | Speed Force Amp | Season 3 | Season 4

 

[Greenshifter]

Season 3 Episode 11.

• Julian: This is your current top speed, and this is where you need to be in May to cover that distance in 0.21 seconds. At your current rate of improvement, impossible.

You'll have to see the graph itself.

Hmm I see. Technically this does not mean that Zoom can’t backscale AP-wise.

Same thing applies to them. In fact, they don't train nearly as much as the Legends (barring Wally), let alone Barry.

They’re metas so their powers would just grow over time. This isn’t really the case for the legends, only some people get amps there. The amps of Shark and Grodd seem to be relative to the speedsters’ amps.

 

[Greenshifter]

(Appears to have regained his previous levels of speed by the Dominator Invasion. Increased his speed enormously throughout the Season)

Did he ever lose it?

Also why are we discarding the nuke thing again?

 

[Greenshifter]

Anyways I think now is a good time to mention my season 5 speed scaling based on smth else.

First off, do we argue that electricity amps give Barry a durability increase?

If we don’t then we can argue Barry during his time slow feat with Supergirl is going faster than when he was amped by electricity since his speed force aura was no longer protecting him from his own speed.

 

[ByAsura]

It's never stated (with some exceptions) that meta randomly grow over time. It's stated that abilities are like muscles, as they get stronger with exertion. Even then, the person that said this does A) is not Gorilla Grodd or King Shark, who don't exert themselves as much as these characters, let alone get speed force amps, and B) does not get hundreds of times stronger per season.

I'm 100% certain it's inconsistency. Girder of all people went from dead to equal to season 2 Flash.

Did he ever lose it?

He, Kid Flash and Rival are very consistently at mach 2-3 levels of speed. So probably.

Barry's powers were failing due to the Flashpoint event, so it makes sense that he needs to recover speed in the new timeline.

 

[Greenshifter]

It's never stated (with some exceptions) that meta randomly grow over time. It's stated that abilities are like muscles, as they get stronger with exertion.

Who stated it?

Even then, the person that said this does A) is not Gorilla Grodd or King Shark, who don't exert themselves as much as these characters, and B) does not get hundreds of times stronger per season.

I mean that seems like a general statement about metas + I think we outright see Grodd’s mind abilities increasing + gaps can be individualistic + how do you even know what Grodd gets up to in his free time, apparently it’s stuff like time travel at one point so.

 

[ByAsura]

I thought you were going by Supergirl's statement.

What general statement.

And what does Grodd use most commonly? Telepathy.

Given that all the Gorillas are vying for power, I doubt it.

We've seen what he's been doing with his free time and his battles against the other Gorillas. If he had a personal ape-man gym or muscle boosts, they'd say as such.

From this, it's probably just massive inconsistency, but since you weren't even talking about the characters I thought you were before, it doesn't matter.

 

[ByAsura]

Also why are we discarding the nuke thing again?

Bad terrible terrible CW math.

 

[Greenshifter]

I thought you were going by Supergirl's statement.

Oh yeah no that only applies to aliens.

And what does Grodd use most commonly? Telepathy.

sure but it does explain his increases in strength.

Given that all the Gorillas are vying for power, I doubt it.

Huh? Also isn’t Grodd the only meta technically?

From this, it's probably just massive inconsistency

Grodd has way more scaling to later seasons Barry than season 1 at this point. So I’d just argue season 1 is inconsistent then.

Bad terrible terrible CW math.

I mean 3 megatons to take out a nuke seems fine. Disregard everything else that doesn’t make sense lol.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Should there straight-up be a ban on using CW numbers at this point?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Honestly yeah unless we’re gonna be taking 8-A infinite planet busting and 10-C Singularities into consideration

 

[Hellbeast]

prolly
Maybe a Note saying

"Do not attempt to use official statements given by the ArrowVerse shows since they suck"

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Should there straight-up be a ban on using CW numbers at this point?

Yes. Just YES. We can't use deliberately ignorant information when it so happens to fit our narrative.

 

[ByAsura]

sure but it does explain his increases in strength.

That’s called inconsistency.

Huh? Also isn’t Grodd the only meta technically?

If anything, that makes them consistently scaling to him worse.

Grodd has way more scaling to later seasons Barry than season 1 at this point. So I’d just argue season 1 is inconsistent then.

Which? That’s right, all of them.

Him scaling to any season of Flash is consistent in its own right.

I mean 3 megatons to take out a nuke seems fine. Disregard everything else that doesn’t make sense lol.

They say 3 billion joules, specifically, because they’re under the assumption that 3 lightning bolts with 1 gigajoule each is the equivalent to 3 megatons.

Also, this was apparently an equal level of power among 3 people with season wide gaps of scaling.

 

[Greenshifter]

That’s called inconsistency.

It’s called adding consistency

If anything, that makes them consistently scaling to him worse.

They do? Wasn’t only Solovar comparable? I mean clearly they are mutated apes so we have no idea how they grow stronger and what not so all we can really do is scale them of of Grodd.

Which? That’s right, all of them.

I mean I have several seasons of Barry at comparable power so.

They say 3 billion joules, specifically, because they’re under the assumption that 3 lightning bolts with 1 gigajoule each is the equivalent to 3 megatons.

Just go of of the megaton stuff then. Billion joules doesn’t make any sense.

Also, this was apparently an equal level of power among 3 people with season wide gaps of scaling.

I mean Jay was unable to do it and Jesse might have Wally’s potential so. It’s not like we know what exactly they got up to while Barry was inside the SF and the beginning of season 4.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Should there straight-up be a ban on using CW numbers at this point?

At this point, I suppose yes

 

[ByAsura]

It’s called adding consistency

You can't force what's not there to begin with.

They do? Wasn’t only Solovar comparable? I mean clearly they are mutated apes so we have no idea how they grow stronger and what not so all we can really do is scale them of of Grodd.

They all did about the same damage to the speedsters.

So they all just grow randomly at the same inconsistent rate as Barry and King Shark?

I mean I have several seasons of Barry at comparable power so.

And there's also not that.

Just go of of the megaton stuff then. Billion joules doesn’t make any sense.

The statement itself doesn't make sense. So no.

It's like if someone took a car battery to power the empty power cell of a gun and uses it to blow up a planet because 'thirteen gigajoules could smash a moon, let alone a planet.' They just have no concept of how powerful gigajoules or megatons are.

I mean Jay was unable to do it and Jesse might have Wally’s potential so.

Jay was unable to do it because he's old and lacked stamina. His lightning bolts were still powerful enough.

It’s not like we know what exactly they got up to while Barry was inside the SF and the beginning of season 4.

Jay certainly wasn't getting any faster or stronger in his twilight years.

Given that Jesse wasn't trapped in the Speed Force for months and had a far slower rate of progress than Wally, I think we can say she wouldn't be on par with Barry either.

Edit: On second thought, it's probably going to be irrelevant by the time someone calculates DeVoe's satellite.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The statement itself doesn't make sense. So no.

It feels like the one Flash scan where the narration simultaneously says that he run under the speed of light and 13 trillion times faster than light.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It feels like the one Flash scan where the narration simultaneously says that he run under the speed of light and 13 trillion times faster than light.

DC speed of light refers to speedforce wall sometimes

 

[ByAsura]

Should there straight-up be a ban on using CW numbers at this point?

Said this already, but we should include multipliers, although I think Marleez's 1000-fold thing can stay. It's not a multiplier as such, and it's perfectly consistent with what DeVoe did with gravity powers.

 

[ByAsura]

Alright, so speed ratings with no numbers and multipliers (barring Zoom absorbing Barry's speed).

I don't really see a reason for having a separate key for Season 5 anymore.

High Hypersonic, Massively Hypersonic+ after his amp | Relativistic, Higher after his amp (After increasing his speed naturally, he eventually outclassed Zoom even with Barry's speed) | Relativistic (Somewhat faster than his Season 2 self) to at least Relativistic (Outclassed Supergirl during the Dominator Invasion. Could keep up with Wally and Savitar by the end of the season; Julian Albert previously suggested that Barry would need to surpass his current speed by the same level that he eclipsed his early season 1 self) | FTL (Blitzed Wally. Moved so fast that lightning appeared to stand still. Lapped the world several times in quick succession), far higher with Electricity Absorption (Managed to run across an entire corridor before DeVoe's portal closed, despite previously being unable to even approach it from a much shorter distance)

Key: Season 1 | Late Season 1/Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I need to recalc the HHS feat because 1. snail speed is outdated 2. too many assumptions but other than that looks good if we decide not to include the officially stated speed values

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Do we have clear tiers for the seasons?

 

[ByAsura]

Mostly, but I guess I'll start on those calculations again to see if there's higher values.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Good option then (especially since a large part of the verse will be impacted by the edits), though simply having actual values is already a good thing considering how inconsistent the show is.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

It feels like the one Flash scan where the narration simultaneously says that he run under the speed of light and 13 trillion times faster than light.

Oh, I know the one you're talking about!

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Oh, I know the one you're talking about!

Guess my brain erased it to protect what's left of my sanity but what are we talking about here?

 

[InfiniteSped]

The classic:

 

[Greenshifter]

The classic:

Oh, no that makes total sense within the context of DC. Speed of light there is waaaaaaaaay above our speed of light. Very consistent too.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm pretty sure they speak about light-speed being 186 thousand miles a second in many Flash comics.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm pretty sure they speak about light-speed being 186 thousand miles a second in many Flash comics.

Oh yes but going at that speed just makes you able to perform many speed feats which we’d consider immeasurable speed.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'm pretty sure they speak about light-speed being 186 thousand miles a second in many Flash comics.

186282.397 Miles per second, according to the statement I saw. That's roughly equal to ~300000km/s, right?

 

[Greenshifter]

Never said it makes a lot of sense btw. But people doing like MFTL+ or higher speed feats while they are approaching the speed of light just happens a lot. Main reason being that the Speed Force Wall is actually the speed of light.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Oh yes but going at that speed just makes you able to perform many speed feats which we’d consider immeasurable speed.

Oh that's the "Lightspeed is actually causality" type of interpretation. We don't treat those as immeasurable I don't think, verses which treat FTL as "time travel with sheer speed" doesn't get Immeasurable Speed. Just FTL + a Time hax.

 

[ByAsura]

It's the speed of light.

I said 186 thousand mi/s specifically because I recall that being the verbiage they in DC (being 'murcan-based an all).

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh that's the "Lightspeed is actually causality" type of interpretation. We don't treat those as immeasurable I don't think, verses which treat FTL as "time travel with sheer speed" doesn't get Immeasurable Speed. Just FTL + a Time hax.

The thing is that these characters are doing things that characters who just time travel by going FTL in other verses can’t. Like entering higher-D realms above space and time or breaking the bonds of infinity or whatever.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

The classic:

 

[InfiniteSped]

They can just time travel by going FTL, like how you can time travel in the Arrowverse by going at mach 2. Just how the verse works, although people also go way MFTL without any reality breaking shenanigans, but that's just comics being comics.

 

[Greenshifter]

They can just time travel by going FTL, like how you can time travel in the Arrowverse by going at mach 2. Just how the verse works, although people also go way MFTL without any reality breaking shenanigans, but that's just comics being comics.

So you’re just gonna ignore everything I said?