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CTR Fairy Tail
- Thread starter CNBA3
- Start date
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- fairy tail
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- 19,433
- 10,037
Can I also get a TL;DR?
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That's not really a TL;DR. What are the arguments for both sides?
- 3,791
- 327
- Thread starter
- #166
So, basically the opposing side does not think that magic and life force are connected because of one scene in the manga that retcons the whole thing, while the pro side shows that magic and life force are connected as there are instances where losing magic was killing the people.
And with Radiation, opposing side believes that there is not enough information that would think magic is, while pro side shows that Magic does operate like radiation as it causes contamination of the body, it is poisonous, it causes cancer, and comes from mostly natural light, fusion process and even over usage of Magic.
And with Radiation, opposing side believes that there is not enough information that would think magic is, while pro side shows that Magic does operate like radiation as it causes contamination of the body, it is poisonous, it causes cancer, and comes from mostly natural light, fusion process and even over usage of Magic.
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Because they aren't. Everyone has run out of magic multiple times, something I see you decided to ignore for your TL;DR. That one scene you refer to also required olympic level mental gymnastics on your part to refute.
The pro side has only ever said that magic and life force are interchangeable with the only people who died from magic loss being Layla despite the translation. There is no other instances as MBP are already poisonous, life existing without magic in every arc and spirits needing magic to live in a world that is poisonous to them.
The radiation point is based on the fact that magic ca act like radiation which means nothing as it also acts as fire, water, wind, earth, the color white etc. That fusion process is simply converting magic into radiation like every other spell does for the desired element. Are we also going to simultaneously grant magic the properties of every other magic now? Moon Drip (the natural light mentioned) is a spell that uses moon light that has to shine through the temple on Galuna Island so the light isn't inherently magical at all.
The pro side has only ever said that magic and life force are interchangeable with the only people who died from magic loss being Layla despite the translation. There is no other instances as MBP are already poisonous, life existing without magic in every arc and spirits needing magic to live in a world that is poisonous to them.
The radiation point is based on the fact that magic ca act like radiation which means nothing as it also acts as fire, water, wind, earth, the color white etc. That fusion process is simply converting magic into radiation like every other spell does for the desired element. Are we also going to simultaneously grant magic the properties of every other magic now? Moon Drip (the natural light mentioned) is a spell that uses moon light that has to shine through the temple on Galuna Island so the light isn't inherently magical at all.
- 3,791
- 327
- Thread starter
- #168
This mostly happens with violent removal of one's magic from their body that would cause such a thing, and Makarov was going to die due to magic loss, as well as any other case with the gradual loss of magic, even from being in different worlds, especially with Loke, you seem to forget this, as well with Mavis when she had her life sucked out of her, there was only a faint magic left, meaning there was still some life in her. It is already stated and there is nothing to say otherwise. It is as they refer to moonlight as magic as well, and is proven as it later was utilized as well to show magic power number, well magic exists in practically anything and using magic excessively does cause harmful effects
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No. Law is said to use the person's life force and not magic. I didn't forget about anything. I mentioned that Celestial Spirits have a different physiology from other magic using creatures and we have seen said magic wielding creatures exhausted of magic before and they were still alive whereas being out of magic for a CS = death. Stated for a specific species, sure, but not as a general rule.
Basic moonlight was never used on the MPF, that was Fairy Glitter which is undoubtedly magic based so of course it would be registered as magic.
All of your arguments require context of the scenes/events to be ignored entirely for them to support your CRT.
Basic moonlight was never used on the MPF, that was Fairy Glitter which is undoubtedly magic based so of course it would be registered as magic.
All of your arguments require context of the scenes/events to be ignored entirely for them to support your CRT.
- 3,791
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- Thread starter
- #170
What are you even talking about, drain forcibly removes all your magic, and Makarov was going to die from it had it not been for Mystogen's intervention, humans are the same way as they would have their magic/life force sapped away in the same manner in their world, it still holds true. Yes it was via Fairy glitter which is gsthered light from the sun, moon and stars. I did which you seem to forget I already posted them in the beginning
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Did you post the evidence of FG gathering light from those sources?
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Because Makarov relies on his magic power as an old man, Wraith even supports this as he points out that despite his magical power, his poor health and body hold him back. Makky has been having health issues for the whole series so losing magic which was what kept him up and about would obviously screw him over. That scene also proves that magic =/= life force as he lost all of his magic as stated by everyone so explain why he was alive for hours after lacking all of his life force?
A magic spell, ie the thing that obvously contains magic, registering on the MPF as magic is exactly what is supposed to happen. This isn't proving anything except that, suprise surprise, Fairy Glitter is a magic spell.
I did which you seem to forget I already posted them in the beginning
I never said anything about you not posting stuff, I said you ignore the context of everything you talk about which you apparently agree with. Concession accepted, now we can finally close this hot mess.
A magic spell, ie the thing that obvously contains magic, registering on the MPF as magic is exactly what is supposed to happen. This isn't proving anything except that, suprise surprise, Fairy Glitter is a magic spell.
I did which you seem to forget I already posted them in the beginning
I never said anything about you not posting stuff, I said you ignore the context of everything you talk about which you apparently agree with. Concession accepted, now we can finally close this hot mess.
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Well, said scan says FG uses the energy of the light, not the light itself as you claim. Small correction.
- 3,791
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- Thread starter
- #175
There is no mention of magic power relying because of age, it has nothing to do with age. Well after Alveraz, of course he would be in bad condition. Not the whole series, It only happens every now and then, the only time it was truly bad was after the final arc. He was going to die from lack of magic powe, the only reason he was alive is because of sheer will power, which is not unsurprising as emotion or mental strength is a factor, It is magic that contains the light of natural sources to use as an attack, there is no magic inside Fairy Glitter besides natural light, there is nothing magical besides the light it uses. You seem to be the one ignoring the context.
Light is energy, which still Cana says for light to gather when casting it, even in previous pages it was described as light.
Light is energy, which still Cana says for light to gather when casting it, even in previous pages it was described as light.
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If it has nothing to do with age, then it has nothing to do with life-force. The latter concept is tied to a person's health which gets hindered over the course of the years, weakening the body and mind the older the person is.
- 3,791
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- Thread starter
- #177
Why not? Why does being old have to do with having limited magic power? It is tied to a person's life force, the fact that he was reduced to a feeble, dying old man after having his magic power removed would confirm this. This only shows that magic only grows over the years despite his aging, as Makarov puts it "Magic is Alive"
If he suffered from failing health, sure, not even magic can help him fight in those moments, but that in no way changes who he usually is at his top condition.
If he suffered from failing health, sure, not even magic can help him fight in those moments, but that in no way changes who he usually is at his top condition.
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It has nothing to do, that's the point.
He was a feeble old man from the beginning of the series. I see no difference outside of a cool beard between chapter 2 and chapter 546.
First, "Magic is alive" =/= "Magic is life". I'm alive but I'm no life.
Second, I hope you're not using that scan to prove your point. The context talks about Makarov talking about Magic's purpose, and how it responds to the user's will. It's like different types of Chakra in Naruto, according to the shinobi's nature. Orochimaru had a creepy Chakra because he's a shitty person, for example. Which is by far more developed than FT's Magic, I guess. I don't remember a similar case outside of the overwhelming magic power that a wizard may have.
He was a feeble old man from the beginning of the series. I see no difference outside of a cool beard between chapter 2 and chapter 546.
First, "Magic is alive" =/= "Magic is life". I'm alive but I'm no life.
Second, I hope you're not using that scan to prove your point. The context talks about Makarov talking about Magic's purpose, and how it responds to the user's will. It's like different types of Chakra in Naruto, according to the shinobi's nature. Orochimaru had a creepy Chakra because he's a shitty person, for example. Which is by far more developed than FT's Magic, I guess. I don't remember a similar case outside of the overwhelming magic power that a wizard may have.
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- Thread starter
- #179
He is only a feeble old man when he is actually sick or dying, not in his usual condition, two different things, being alive means you are part of life, meaning you have the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death. just like magic being alive is life, Jose's magic makes people physically sick just standing there being near People, Magic too has different types because the One Magic develops into many different varieties since the beginning.
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That doesn't work like that. Life is a metaphysical concept we're tied on. We're not life, we live, which is different.
Yet no magic power is different from another magic outside of the "type" they use. In other words, the magic power within the body shares the same properties in any user, but when they actually use the power inside them then the magic is formed. This is explained in chapter 2 when it talks about the nature of magic.
Yet no magic power is different from another magic outside of the "type" they use. In other words, the magic power within the body shares the same properties in any user, but when they actually use the power inside them then the magic is formed. This is explained in chapter 2 when it talks about the nature of magic.
- 3,791
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- Thread starter
- #181
Life is a distinction between things that are organic and those that are not, or life is the existence of a human or animal. It is as I explained, even in the same "type" developes differently, even magic energy inside them can reflect different properties. It is stated that when the energy inside the user and the energy in nature are connected, Magic is formed, it may go beyond reason but comes from reason, and requires a strong mind to utilize it. Not when they use power alone, small correction on your part. Even then magic can be inherited too
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It developes differently, yes, but in its most basic form (magic power) there's no difference between Zeref's and Wendy's MP. They have different amounts of magic and that's it. The differences start and end there. Feel free to debunk this with scans.
Said Magic Power is the one that lies in nature, in all living and non-living things. The typing appears when the wizard uses its ability to merge the MP in nature with its own energy (which, mind you, isn't stated as magic nor life-force when Makarov talks about this) to create and produce Magic.
But we agree to disagree. Let's wait on the other staff members' opinion. We've reached more than 180 replies already and this will go on for hundreds of replies if we don't stop now.
Said Magic Power is the one that lies in nature, in all living and non-living things. The typing appears when the wizard uses its ability to merge the MP in nature with its own energy (which, mind you, isn't stated as magic nor life-force when Makarov talks about this) to create and produce Magic.
But we agree to disagree. Let's wait on the other staff members' opinion. We've reached more than 180 replies already and this will go on for hundreds of replies if we don't stop now.
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- Thread starter
- #183
The most basic form of magic is Love which is the One Magic where everything starts. People are different so magic develops differently based on those individuals. So they have an extra form of energy that no one ever knew about in the manga? Magic power is already intertwined with one's life when people are born with magic power inside of them, they simply merge that with nature's energy to use actual magic. I already sent out the message a while ago, just waiting on them.
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I'm with Calaca on this.
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his points looks more solid than yours. There's not much proof that life equates to magic when there's plenty of things that contradict it.
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the same point that Blank has debunked numerous times in this thread. Again, I'm agreeing with Calaca's side.
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So I need a bit of a TL;DR
- 3,791
- 327
- Thread starter
- #192
So, basically the opposing side does not think that magic and life force are connected because they think one scene in the manga that retcons the whole thing or how they believe that when all out of magic naturally doesn't kill you, while the pro side shows that magic and life force are connected as there are instances where losing magic especially in a violent manner was killing the people or consistently drained of them kills them.Dragonmasterxyz said:
And with Radiation, opposing side believes that there is not enough information that would think magic is, while pro side shows that Magic does operate like radiation as it causes contamination of the body, it is poisonous, it causes cancer, and comes from mostly natural light, fusion process and even over usage of Magic.
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I mean the manga literally says magic is tied to life force...
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Just gonna quote thisAnonymousBlank said:
- 3,791
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- Thread starter
- #195
This mostly happens with violent removal of one's magic from their body that would cause such a thing, and Makarov was going to die due to magic loss, as well as any other case with the gradual loss of magic, even from being in different worlds, especially with Loke, you seem to forget this, as well with Mavis when she had her life sucked out of her, there was only a faint magic left, meaning there was still some life in her. Even after having no magic energy left, their life is considered magic, especially when turned into a lacrima, it is explicitly stated it contains the life force of ordinary citizens, even after Erza had no magic power left, she was still pulled away by the Anima which explicitly stated to take all magic out of Edolas, so that would mean her very life is magic. It is as they refer to moonlight as magic as well, and is proven as it later was utilized as well to show magic power number, well magic exists in practically anything and using magic excessively does cause harmful effects.
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I still disagree that Magic is Radiation, that's too large of an assumption
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