CTR Fairy Tail

[OneBleachHurricane]

My opinion is that Magic is not equal to Life Force. I think that Ethernano or Natural Energy exists in everything, but Magic exists and is only ever used by Mages, Dragons, Spirits, Monsters and certain magical objects.

Civilians: Have Ethernano and Life Force but can't combine the two to make nor use magic.

Mages: Have Ethernano and Life Force, can combine the two to make and use magic.

My reasoning that civilians also have Ethernano is that they can be turned into Lacrima same as Mages. Does this make sense?

 

[CNBA3]

@Rin, they are.

 

[CNBA3]

Ethernano is found in all things and is within all living things in Earthland, but that doesn't mean it's Radiation

when Excessively over used and/or in high concentration, Magic is poisonous based on consumption, cause body contamination and even cause cancer, it even is dangerous when it comes from real sources such as moonlight and that is radiation too. as radiation is the emission of energy or movement or particles.

Aslo, Etherion is both Fusion based magic and is described as a Light, which would fit perfectly

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

But the Magic tumor wasn't actually a magic tumor, it was END's Power forming inside Natsu because he was doubting his humanity

It turned out he didn't have Magic Cancer at all, so there's no proof that it's radiation

 

[CNBA3]

But the Magic tumor wasn't actually a magic tumor, it was END's Power forming inside Natsu because he was doubting his humanity
It turned out he didn't have Magic Cancer at all, so there's no proof that it's radiation

just because it is END power does not change that the Magic tumor does exist in the past, especially from a medical expert, otherwise, she would not make a statement with such exposition, despite this, it is easy to mistake a seed for a tumor as they have many things in common, even in real life, they are small, and can grow via dividing cells and do harmful effects to the body, especially on a genetic level, even a Dragon Seed grows when over using DSM, just like how a Magic Tumor grows when over using magic.

 

[The_Calaca]

I was talking about Scarlet, who was drained of magic and still fought H2H.

Provide some scans about this magic lose causing death.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Losing your magic doesn't mean you die, that makes little sense, you just are drained of energy

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Uh CNBA3 .... anything is poisonous if taken in excessive quantities. Iron is poisonous if you have too much, same with vitamin C, sugar etc etc. Too much magic isn't evidence of it being radiation as it only counts as radiation poisoning if you can prove magic is radiation but your point of magic being in everything directly disproves this as it would just be "this magic acts like radiation" rather than "magic is radiation"

 

[CNBA3]

@Calaca, Erza was simply using a different magic source that is not naturally how it forms, it is unnatural compared to how EL wizards use magic.

It is simply the cause where a Wizard overuses or has all of their magic power spent all at once, Where one's life force becoming magic power for a spell. and even with Drain that forces Magic Power out of the perso that would cause that person to die if they do not fight back.

 

[CNBA3]

Uh CNBA3 .... anything is poisonous if taken in excessive quantities. Iron is poisonous if you have too much, same with vitamin C, sugar etc etc. Too much magic isn't evidence of it being radiation as it only counts as radiation poisoning if you can prove magic is radiation but your point of magic being in everything directly disproves this as it would just be "this magic acts like radiation" rather than "magic is radiation"

I did though, as High Concentration of Magic power or overusage of magic causes not just poisoning, but all sorts of physical effects, even cancer, and even real light (which is magic power by the way) does cause contamination to the body.

 

[The_Calaca]

What? Why would Erza use a different magic source as the one she always use? Aren't you still thinking that I'm talking about Knightwalker?

>Layla's scan

She falling ill might be the so called magic tumor Natsu was diagnosed with.

It says she used her life force to create magic, not that life force = magic. Plus that didn't even killed her to begin with.

>Makarov's scan

That was retconned in Edolas tho. They have fought while drained before and after that, and they don't die. Heck, they don't even fall unconscious. This might be an inconsistency for plot reasons to keep Makarov out of the screen.

Edit: Blank's right, BTW. It most likely shows that magic works like radiation, not that it is radiation. On the other side, it has to be a very vainilla radiation since not even gigantic fire explosions produce a single similar effect to the enviroment like an actual bomb with radioactive properties would do.

 

[CNBA3]

EL wizards have zero access to using their magic, even then they have to take an X-ball to generate any magic power within them rather than gather magic power from the atmosphere. The magic tumor is when one's magic is overused repeatedly thus developing a malignent mass inside them.

Layla would die afterward, nothing different there, still she had developed the disease just like Makarov which their Magic Power/Life Force was rapidly drained away from them and would die.

Again, Edolas has different rules compared to Eartthland, and even the visitors must obey them, so they are no different to that of regular people there without magic, the X-balls allows them to generate magic power, internally, not gather magic power externally as usual.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Don't the Edolas counterparts use magical items to fight and that they specifically use Lacrima to power their weapons. Was it stated that they themselves used Magic and not their items?

 

[CNBA3]

Don't the Edolas counterparts use magical items to fight and that they specifically use Lacrima to power their weapons. Was it stated that they themselves used Magic and not their items?

They can't use magic because they have no magic inside them, so they use magic items, X-balls are no different, so Natsu and the others do not use their natural magic, but operate on the same rules and use magic items for their magic

 

[The_Calaca]

>EL wizards have zero access to using their magic

>they have to take an X-ball to generate any magic power withing them

Get your mind together. They can or not?


Didn't someone else opened the gate in the manga? Wasn't it Future Rogue? How is he doesn't get sick from it? Wouldn't that be Layla's case because, as stated, she had a frail body already?

Dude, I'm talking about Earthland Erza. Stop bringing Edolas to this point. Pay attention.

 

[CNBA3]

As long as they are in Edolas, they are no different from everyone there, meaning they have no magic, X-balls are just another magic item that lets them use magic and generate magic power. Future Rogue likely got his hands on the gate keys in that universe.

I am well aware that you are talking about Earthland Erza, she is no different than that of Edolas Erza as long as EL Erza is in Edolas, using magic items (X-Balls) to use magic.

 

[The_Calaca]

That point ignores a major plot point.

If they have no magic then there's no point in kidnapping the Slayers to suck their magic.

 

[CNBA3]

How so? What I mean is that they have no access to magic, their magic power is no longer tied to their life force but acts like a battery or gas tank, they have it, but cannot replenish it without some external means

 

[Davidsteel1]

B4 I say anything at all I want to say that I really don't want to be drawn into this discussion, these things last forever and in the end more often than not they usually end up being a waste of time. I am on no side of this debate, but if there is some information that I feel needs to be clarified I'll comment.

In regards to the Eclipse Gate, it isn't always on succ mode. It's on succ mode when accumulating magic power by drawing from the wizards in the city, but when it's time to actually use it that energy is used up.

As for Makarov and loss of magic causing death, well there's literally something called "magic deficiency disease" by the very definition of that, it insinuates that there is a point that excess loss of magic causes illness. But judging from how often ppl run out of power in the series it isn't a very common thing, the instances we see it is when magic barrier particles (or bane particles) come into play, and that destroys whatever magic it comes into contact with. Makarov's case of magic loss resulting in near death was because his condition was exacerbated by his poor health and age.

Also going back and reading through the Edolas arc, the Earthland mages are never outright said to have no magic by Carla (at least from what I remember) the closest she says is "You can't use magic at will"

 

[CNBA3]

I understand how you feel, but age and health was not a factor when he rapidly lost all his magic power/life force all at once. Usually MDD happens when a wizard super exceeds their usage of magic or loss all their magic at once. Same with Layla

Also, magic and magic power are two different things which is why I said they can't use magic, which is no different from being regular people who have no magic

 

[The_Calaca]

The fact that they can't replenish their magic through external means doesn't mean that they wouldn't die if drained from their magic. In fact, it'd accelerate the process if anything, since they can't take the Ethernano in the enviroment to try and hang up to their tiny life force left in their bodies.

 

[CNBA3]

But that is the thing, yet there are cases where they literally are drained of their life force as magic power, and stated as such, however that is in Earthland, not Edolas where the rules are different and people have to play by them where magic power and life force are not connected

 

[The_Calaca]

They have to play by their rules because they couldn't use their magic, not because Edolas magically reformed their bodies.

 

[Davidsteel1]

As mentioned above, entering Edolas didn't necessarily punt magic completely out of their bodies, all we are told is that they are not able to utilise magic as they'd like. This is proven when later Natsu and Wendy were both robbed of magic; it should be noted that prior to taking the X-balls neither was recovering from this loss but upon being given the balls both recovered rapidly.

Occams razor would suggest that the X-balls allowed them full access to the abilities they had back on Earthland on Edolas. And this would include recovering magic over time. Magic in Edolas is scarce not non-existent

 

[CNBA3]

I didn't say it does, but cuts them off from any magic or magic power. And I didn't say Magic was nonexistant in Edolas, just that it is limited, there i sno magic in the body of it's residents, and without accessing their magic or magic power, they were no different form normal human capabilities, instead of being tied to their life force, it just becomes a separate vessel of their magic power. the rules is literally they can't use their magic, not because, one cannot effect the other without the one being the rule. After far as we have seen it does, seeing as FT members pre X-balls have not even shown any superhuman capabilities or even defeat average soldiers even with magic weapons

 

[The_Calaca]

They can't use their magic =/= They have no magic or they lose their magic.

In fact, if they used it some chapters after, then it's more likely they had their magic powers sealed.

Obvious PIS is obvious. That or they are 10-B without magic

 

[Davidsteel1]

@Calaca I feel like I need some clarification, what are you arguing?

 

[CNBA3]

I did not say that, I said that they can't access their magic or magic power, their powers were not sealed, that is not PIS, physical efforts have magic power behind them, proven during the magic games, that is why they could not defeat any soldier from edolas even with magic weapons.

 

[The_Calaca]

@David I'm arguing against life force=magic. Edolas is the obvious example of this not being the case, as Erza said.

@CNB but your argument is that if they lack magic they lose their life force and therefore they die.

 

[Davidsteel1]

What does Erza say?

 

[CNBA3]

in Edolas it does not work like that, that is why they can't access the magic they use or their magic power, this shows they they are separate from any living being besides the Exceeds. Magic in Earthland is treated as a part of life and nature, while in Edolas, they are separate and Magic is a finite resource,

 

[CNBA3]

Erza said that even though they are out of magic power, they are still alive, however, that is because

1. she did not spend all her magic power at once.

2. They are still in edolas and is using a magic item to fight.

Also, Erza Knightwalker is just deluded in thinking that without a natural resource they would die when in reality you can still live without it.

 

[The_Calaca]

When Scarlet fought Knightwalker both were all out. Scarlet drained her magic power and Knightwalker drained her weapons. Then they engaged in CQC while KW yells the world is dying because of lack of magic, but Erza replies that they had no magic in them and they were still alive and fighting.

@CNB Yeah, good thing the FT members are from Earthland and not Edolas. I suggest you to stop arguing the same point without paying attention to this.

 

[CNBA3]

what same point? where EL wizards are using magic items to use their magic? because that what is all about, besides Erza was just giving some inspiration speech for the people in Edolas to live on without it, while magic in Earthland is indistinguishable from nature.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Ok

As far as I can tell, Edolas doesn't prove or disprove this theory at all. In Edolas they cannot use magic, but seeing as they can have it stolen from them that means it hasn't left them it is simply inaccessible, we cannot use Edolas humans as the standard to judge this particular phenomena because they're from a completely different universe and these rules do not apply.

On Erza's speech, you can't use that to judge this at all. For one it's all fuelled by emotion so it's likely hyperbolic to make her point. And secondly when it comes to total magic exhaustion, using it all up overtime and naturally e.g via fighting doesn't cause as much exhaustion as when it's all forcibly pulled out of u as we've seen a number of times- so basically it's circumstantial

 

[The_Calaca]

They still had no magic left. She experienced no debilitating effect outside of that during the fight against a comparable opponent.

Losing all the magic power from one single shot is deadlier, yes, but she had no magic power and nothing changed. She kept fighting despite that.

 

[CNBA3]

1. The magic Scarlet was using was not tied to her life force as it was the result of a magic item. they were still in Edolas, it is no different from people using magic items in their world as well

2. Despite having used up her magic power, that would just be her standard capabilities while in Edolas

3. Erza was always different from the others, as she was a durable woman in many situations

 

[Davidsteel1]

In all fairness to CNBA3 as far as I can tell from browsing through the replies on the thread, his arguments have been largely rooted in the magic being rapidly drained, not being spent overtime (note I browsed through the replies, ain't nobody got time to read all of them in depth. So it's entirely possible I've missed something).

Any other arguments, especially those based on Edolas affecting how the system works I can't agree with. It's imposing our own made up rules where the series didn't and I don't agree with that

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Yeah magic isn't life force. Merc didn't die upon having his magic destroyed by Natsu, the Wind God Slayer didn't die when she lost her magic either.

 

[CNBA3]

That was debunked with Chelia can use magic later on, and I am not so certain about that for Merc as he retains a human form rather than return to his true dragon form.