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I think that Matthew applied this earlier, but forgot to mention it.
Is there anything left to do here then, and if so, what?
I do not know. Sorry.
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Cthulhu Mythos Revisions (Part 1.5)
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Is there anything left to do here then, and if so, what?
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Should Azathoth's intelligence section be re-classified as "unknown" as well? He is basically described the exact same ways as the rest of the Ultimate Gods, so it might need a rewrite. Also an additional question - how "literal" should the descriptions of these beings be taken (especially "mindless")?
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Thank you for bumping this thread. I agree.
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Here is more of my incessant ranting.
Some points to consider with Azathoth intelligence section:
* Just how "mindless" is Azathoth (and the Other Gods) supposed to be? And what context should the word be taken?
- We know the Other Gods are "blind, mindless" and "possessed of singular (strange/unusual) hungers and thirsts"
- In terms of characterization of these entities, common descriptions (when characters like Randolph Carter or Walter Gilman come close to these outer voids) include "hideous laughter/cackling/tittering", "screaming", "gnawing/ravenous/hungrily" as well as the "gibbering/muttering" of Azathoth himself
2) Possessing no sense of reason/rationality and driven by alien instincts. Perhaps in "Freudian" terms, they don't possess "ego/super-ego" (the rationality/decision-making/sense-of-self) and are purely "id-driven" (id being the instincts, desires that stem from the unconscious). That being said, the "id" of the Other Gods is completely alien in of itself (singular/strange hungers and thirsts). David Punter, a professor of Gothic studies, says this in "The Literature of Terror: Volume 2: the Modern Gothic: "...human life must be bounded by convention and by the rigid schemes of social classification, a view which Lovecraft bore out in his person; only conventions and classes protect us from the mindless and destructive pleasure of the instincts - which are, surely, the blind "gargoyles" of which he speaks."
3) Don't possess a "mind" humans can understand, therefore "mindless" by our perspective (Nyarlathotep himself refers to them as mindless in Dream-Quest, though he may be dumbing-it-down for a human like Randolph Carter).
4) Mad or insane (they do dance insanely as the poem puts it, and Nyarlathotep is mentioned as a "Mad faceless god howling blindly" in Rats in the Walls, and another quote from a correspondence seems to add weight to this: "Humour is but the faint terrestrial echo of the hideous laughter of the blind mad gods that squat leeringly and sardonically in caverns beyond the Milky Way. It is a hollow thing, sweet on the outside, but filled with the pathos of fruitless aspiration". It seems Lovecraft's common usage of "idiot" in relation to these entities could also be a synonym for this.
I think points 2, 3 and 4 are the most likely due to evidence, and point 1 is the most unlikely, which is ironic as this is how they might be perceived by many people.
Concluding thoughts:
The Other Gods and Azathoth
Now you know the extent of my OCD
Some points to consider with Azathoth intelligence section:
- Described in the same manor as the rest of the Other Gods, "blind, mindless"
- "...spiral black vortices of that ultimate void of Chaos wherein reigns the mindless daemon-sultan Azathoth" The strange conjunction of his idiocy/mindlessness and him "ruling all time and space" seems almost paradoxical or contradictory. I don't know if this is intentional or just an oversight, but it reminds me of "....are eager to work the will of those blind and mindless things in return for the favour of their hideous soul and messenger, the crawling chaos Nyarlathotep." which is similarly strange with them having a will despite their descriptions
- Azathoth is a name that "mercifully cloaks" a "monstrous nuclear chaos" as we learn in The Whisperer in Darkness. Therefore, most of what the narrators say about it is merely a signifier for something unsignifiable
- Azathoth supposedly mutters his dreams (dreams he can't understand). I think this is not necessarily due to a lack of cognition from Azathoth himself, but the dreams are totally incomprehensible and chaotic in of themselves - a poetic way of describing an emergence of pure, nonsensical chaotic energy/force/reality-substance that holds within itself completely new and untranslated laws of existence to be then aimlessly piped to create and define new universes
* Just how "mindless" is Azathoth (and the Other Gods) supposed to be? And what context should the word be taken?
- We know the Other Gods are "blind, mindless" and "possessed of singular (strange/unusual) hungers and thirsts"
- In terms of characterization of these entities, common descriptions (when characters like Randolph Carter or Walter Gilman come close to these outer voids) include "hideous laughter/cackling/tittering", "screaming", "gnawing/ravenous/hungrily" as well as the "gibbering/muttering" of Azathoth himself
- Get angry at those trying to contact Dreamlands gods
- Carter falls through "endless voids" of "sentient blackness"
- "Mindless" could be possibly interpreted in these ways in regards to the entities
2) Possessing no sense of reason/rationality and driven by alien instincts. Perhaps in "Freudian" terms, they don't possess "ego/super-ego" (the rationality/decision-making/sense-of-self) and are purely "id-driven" (id being the instincts, desires that stem from the unconscious). That being said, the "id" of the Other Gods is completely alien in of itself (singular/strange hungers and thirsts). David Punter, a professor of Gothic studies, says this in "The Literature of Terror: Volume 2: the Modern Gothic: "...human life must be bounded by convention and by the rigid schemes of social classification, a view which Lovecraft bore out in his person; only conventions and classes protect us from the mindless and destructive pleasure of the instincts - which are, surely, the blind "gargoyles" of which he speaks."
3) Don't possess a "mind" humans can understand, therefore "mindless" by our perspective (Nyarlathotep himself refers to them as mindless in Dream-Quest, though he may be dumbing-it-down for a human like Randolph Carter).
4) Mad or insane (they do dance insanely as the poem puts it, and Nyarlathotep is mentioned as a "Mad faceless god howling blindly" in Rats in the Walls, and another quote from a correspondence seems to add weight to this: "Humour is but the faint terrestrial echo of the hideous laughter of the blind mad gods that squat leeringly and sardonically in caverns beyond the Milky Way. It is a hollow thing, sweet on the outside, but filled with the pathos of fruitless aspiration". It seems Lovecraft's common usage of "idiot" in relation to these entities could also be a synonym for this.
I think points 2, 3 and 4 are the most likely due to evidence, and point 1 is the most unlikely, which is ironic as this is how they might be perceived by many people.
Concluding thoughts:
The Other Gods and Azathoth
- characterized as ravenous, screaming, cackling/laughing
- explicitly stated to have a will (despite seemingly contrary descriptions)
- get angry at those who defy them (Barzai the Wise, lava on Ngranek, setting their "seal")
- the fact they even have a "soul and messenger" which further proves they have desires and wills
Now you know the extent of my OCD
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Maybe
"Unknown. Exists in a realm of ultimate Chaos beyond dimensioned space and mathematics, and is described in the same manor as the Ultimate Gods - being perceived as idiotic, blind, ravenous and muttering the chaotic contents of his dreams; although is ultimately inscrutable."
"Unknown. Exists in a realm of ultimate Chaos beyond dimensioned space and mathematics, and is described in the same manor as the Ultimate Gods - being perceived as idiotic, blind, ravenous and muttering the chaotic contents of his dreams; although is ultimately inscrutable."
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Feel free to completely reword it or whatever. I'm sure others could do a better job.
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Have a look, they are just flying space monsters
That reminds me of
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Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
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Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
Azathoth is the lord and master of all existence, governor of the outer chaos that serves as the residence of the all-powerful Ultimate Gods and primordial creator of all things, who resides on a black throne at the center of the Abyss, from which he rules all of time and space, lying in a...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I thought the other guy was going to do it. Done.
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Hunting Horrors
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath The hunting-horrors are the vicious servants of the Crawling Chaos, sent to do its bidding when the god does not feel like doing the task itself. Being mythical entities whose apparitions haunt the Dreamlands, the writhing beings are said to constantly shift...
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They need to be replaced by completely unknown.
And Randolph Carter's profile has yet to be revised
Randolph Carter
Randolph Carter is the protagonist of several stories written by H.P. Lovecraft, as well as the focus of Lovecraft's first novella, The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath. His bloodline had lived in Arkham for many years, dating all the way back to the wizard Edmund Carter, who had come to Arkham...
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@Matthew_SchroederHunting Horrors
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath The hunting-horrors are the vicious servants of the Crawling Chaos, sent to do its bidding when the god does not feel like doing the task itself. Being mythical entities whose apparitions haunt the Dreamlands, the writhing beings are said to constantly shift...
They need to be replaced by completely unknown.
And Randolph Carter's profile has yet to be revised
Randolph Carter
Randolph Carter is the protagonist of several stories written by H.P. Lovecraft, as well as the focus of Lovecraft's first novella, The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath. His bloodline had lived in Arkham for many years, dating all the way back to the wizard Edmund Carter, who had come to Arkham...
Please elaborate regarding exactly what you intend to do in each case.
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Hi.
Hunting Horrors are not High 1-A. BUT they also don't scale to The Night Gaunts either it would seem so they are completely unknown.
Randalph Carter's profile is completely outdated and has never ever been revised.
Hunting Horrors are not High 1-A. BUT they also don't scale to The Night Gaunts either it would seem so they are completely unknown.
Randalph Carter's profile is completely outdated and has never ever been revised.
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Poetry
Darksmash
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That tier 0 justification is fanfiction tbh considering the supreme archetype is explicitly stated to be an inhabitant of the ultimate abyss
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Looking deeper into philosophical concepts related to Yog-Sothothery, Schopenhauer's Will seems similar in concepts with Azathoth. I wonder if that influenced Lovecraft at all? Azathoth seems to me a conglomeration of various ideas, including Mana-Yood-Sushai, aforementioned Schopenhauer's will and Mythological Greek Chaos.
Darksmash
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That thread does not relate to what I said at all. Mind elaborating on the specifics?
Also first line is just kek.
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I really appreciate it bro, thank you so much. Going to finish this problem and take a break, was getting very frustrated and it's just stonewalling me.
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the dreaming part is from some version of hindusim where everything is vishnu dream
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Quote, please
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Hunting Horrors
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath The hunting-horrors are the vicious servants of the Crawling Chaos, sent to do its bidding when the god does not feel like doing the task itself. Being mythical entities whose apparitions haunt the Dreamlands, the writhing beings are said to constantly shift...
They need to be replaced by completely unknown.
And Randolph Carter's profile has yet to be revised
Randolph Carter
Randolph Carter is the protagonist of several stories written by H.P. Lovecraft, as well as the focus of Lovecraft's first novella, The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath. His bloodline had lived in Arkham for many years, dating all the way back to the wizard Edmund Carter, who had come to Arkham...
@Matthew_Schroeder
I think that you can update the Hunting Horrors, but please elaborate regarding Carter.
@Ultima_Reality @Event_Horizon
Your help would also be appreciated here.
Darksmash
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I saw the Randolph Carter profile draft and it got me so excited.
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KingPin0422/Sandbox2
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I think the Hunting Horrors page should just be deleted, if they become Unknown in every stat all they'll have is Flight and Dimensional Travel
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