Cosmic Cubes and Phoenix Force revisions

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Arguments that were brought up in the Odi revision thread :

• "Reed Richards used the Cosmic Cube to defeat Doctor Doom with Galactus' power and the later defeated Odin with ease "
• "Small fragments of a single cube can each create their own reality, which implies the whole thing could have 2-C power"
• "A single immature cube was able to keep four universes stacked/merged together, albeit making them all unstable"
• "The Cosmic Cubes can be as powerful as the Infinity gems but they restrict themselves ."

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I think some people in that thread were arguing for 2-A cubes but idk what the feats are.

 

[Antvasima]

The main arguments for upgrading the cubes to "At least 2-C" (We should probably create an explanation profile in conjunction) are that 5 cubes were together able to render universal Eternity catatonic during the original Infinity War event, combined with the Galactus feat that you mentioned above.

We should also explain that the obscure mention of the Celestials being orders of infinity above them seems to have been retconned, ignored, and outdated at this point.

Also, we need to discuss if the multiversal version of the Phoenix Force should scale to High 1-B from the other abstract entities.

 

[Hykuu]

All Multi Abstracts are High 1-B, they are all generally treated as equals (the likes of Eternity, Infinity, Death, LE and MC, etc. not TLT and oblivion and those lot)

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

wasnt living tribunal slain by master of order and chaos and king thanos or those were elseworld story? wasnt living tribunal described as multiverse taking its form to protect itself from beyonders who comes from outside multiverse and killed him ? werent few of those beyonders killed by starband and thor in time ran out storyline? how does doom killed the entire race of beyonders with a bomb which he make by killing molecules man by going in past which was said to destroy 1000s of universe ? and wasnt oblivion was bested by iceman ? can you clarify these i dont think their is much difference in abstract being in current marvel stories and their tier fluctuate a lot writer to writer.

 

[Antvasima]

There are a lot of massive inconsistencies in Marvel stories, yes. We have to try to use approximations that seem to make sense.

 

[Shivansh_Garg]

Lol those 'inconsistencies' tho

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I found this scan going through old threads. The Phoenix Force is the resurrection force that renews creation after Oblivion embraces all. Seems like a usable scan for High 1-B Multiversal PF.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Hykuu]

>first scan talks about it being the universe

I have this shit regarding the phoenix

The Phoenix Force was capable of scaring every Abstract and IG Thanos (Multiversal)

Encompases all the energies of the multiverse within it: , I.e multiversal constant

[http:// https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q1pUaUP7...AAJKc/I1VgycSi2cAECJdpUaC4U0Dx78fYNTWFACLcBGA The Nexus of all realities is The White Hot Room]

The Room is the heart of the Phoenix

(I mostly have things for 2-A, not sure about high 1-B, I also have 1-A wank if y'all wanna take a peek hmu on my message wall)

 

[Ercosore]

A bit off topic, but Matthew mentioned in the previous thread that Low 2-C seems to be more consistent for Odin. Personally I am ok with 2-C Odin, but I think I should mention it.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

odin has legit feats of 2-c so he should be 2-c unlike 2-a comsic cube and high1-b pf which seem way too weird and vague.

 

[Hykuu]

explain how please?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

odin has legit feats of 2-c so he should be 2-c unlike 2-a comsic cube and high1-b pf which seem way too weird and vague.

High 1B PF is not vague at all... We have discussed the matter for 1,5 year in numerous threads as to why the Phoenix is High 1B.

• Thread 1
• Thread 2
• Thread 3
• Thread 4

Phoenix Force and Jean Grey (Marvel Comics) pages need to be upgraded. Phoenix can have 2 or 3 keys. One for Universal/Fragments of the Force and one for Full Phoenix Force.

Marvel about the Phoenix Force.

One of the oldest cosmic entities in existence, The Phoenix Force represents life not yet born. Acting as the nexus of all psionic energy that does, has, and could exist in all realities of the Omniverse, the Force is known as the Guardian of Creation and a guardian of the M'Kraan Crystal—which houses a gateway to another plane of existence known as the White Hot Room.

The Phoenix Force destroys all that does not work or has become stagnant in the universe—and regrows a better, healthier version as a replacement. To intervene in worlds that voluntarily become stagnant and ease them to the way of progress, The Phoenix Force can utilize host bodies…with its most famous—and powerful—connection being to Jean Grey.

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask Matthew to comment here again.

 

[PRIDEXEGO]

wasnt high1-b refer to beings who are infinite dimensional beings can you show me scan where its mentioned that pf was infinite dimensional and it exsist in all space and time at once or trancend them regarding multiversal she can be multiversal in her true incarnation that is white crown but still no where high1-b and mr mxy feat are much more legit and better or outclassed her feats by miles who is still high 2-a. If pf has a comic series that i missed where its mentioned she is infinite dimensional or beyond dimnesional then i can agree she is but as you yet i havent read or find any story like that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Phoenix Force as a whole being 2-A or even High 1-B is genuinely fine, but it wouldn't scale to any incarnation of the Phoenix as characters.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Phoenix Force as a whole being 2-A or even High 1-B is genuinely fine, but it wouldn't scale to any incarnation of the Phoenix as characters.

We have discussed this. The only character that can scale is The White Phoenix of the Crown.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

wouldn`t full power phoneix be 1A since it can protect people fom the chaos wave which not eve the beyonders could stop

 

[Shivansh_Garg]

That beyond refers to Otherworld, not the Beyond (Outerverse) where Ivory Kings come from

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

Thank you. Is it fine if we give the full multiversal Phoenix Force a High 1-B tier then?

 

[Antvasima]

So would the rest of you be willing to help get this done?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I am, but are there actually conclusions?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need Matthew to clarify his stance first.

 

[Ercosore]

People seem to agree with at least 2-C cosmic cubes and high 1-B Phoenix Force.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but we preferably need a confirmation from Matthew. He is the one who started organising our Marvel statistics.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

I didn't see this before, but several posts above he did say that even High 1-B Multiversal Phoenix Force is genuinely fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he said 2-A or High 1-B. I am not sure if that is enough confirmation.

 

[Antvasima]

It has been mentioned that the Phoenix Force hosts should be 4-A based on Rachel Summers defeating a starving Galactus.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Rachel_Summers#4-B.3F

 

[Ercosore]

If Rachel defeating starving Galactus isn´t an outlier then it seems fine for them to be 4-A

 

[Kappatalism]

Well, we need Matthew to clarify his stance first.

Mathew is backlogged almost a year on marvel revisions

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

If Rachel defeating starving Galactus isn´t an outlier then it seems fine for them to be 4-A

Phoneix Force host have feats already that proves it isn't.

 

[Ercosore]

Then I agree with the upgrade

 

[Antvasima]

I am also fine with it, but we shouldn't scale other 4-B superheroes from the feat. Only the Phoenix Force hosts.

 

[Antvasima]

It is too bad that Matthew comments so seldom in Marvel revision threads.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Phoenix Hosts have better feats than just 4A... There are strong and weak hosts.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can probably upgrade the ones with 4-B statistics to 4-A at least.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Hmm, do you have the list of which profiles need to be changed?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Of the top of my head:

• Phoniex Force 5
• Jean Grey
• Hope Summers
• Rachel Summers
• Wolverine
• Emma Forst

 

[Antvasima]

That probably summarises it, although we do not include alternative future Phoenix Wolverine in his ordinary character profile.

Anyway, can somebody ask Matthew to confirm that we can go ahead with the Phoenix (and preferably cosmic cube) revisions? I am getting tired of waiting for him.