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1-A Allfather Thor With Phoenix Force? Avengers Assemble Omega (2023) SPOILERS

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NaturalDestroyer

NaturalDestroyer

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Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcX032vT3cE
What happened: Allfather Thor joined with two Phoenixes to push back the power of the First Firmament that had been unleashed by Mephisto. The leftovers of its corpse, essentially.

Odin: Said that it would "Drown entire universes"
Narration: Described it as an "Unstoppable wave of multiversal destruction"
Old Man Phoenix: "Not even The Phoenix can hold it off for long." Jane Foster Valkyrie supports this by saying that "He's holding back an entire dead multiverse of energy."
Mephisto stated that there would be "...no more life or afterlife." Described as "silence stretching on into infinity."
Doom Supreme stated that he would use a small portion of the power to "remake the multiverse"
Celestial Deathlok was being torn apart after a single panel of containing the dam.

Other quotes: "Even Galactus refused to face this level of power. He returned to his own time as soon as the dam was ruptured."

The Phoenixes were holding it back temporarily, but the first time that the energy was pushed back was when Allfather Thor joined in and tapped into his own latent Phoenix energy. (9:45 in the video, the other quotes are scattered throughout the video before that point).

The Question: Should we add this as a supporting justification for Allfather Thor's 2-A rating? It seems fairly clear that this energy was going to destroy the multiverse, and Doom Supreme was also confident that even using a small portion of it was enough for him to use to remake the multiverse. It overpowered a Celestial, and Valkyrie stated that it was the entire multiverse's worth of energy. Mephisto (who we can consider an expert on these sorts of things) was confident that it would not only erase the material plane, but the afterlife as well on an infinite scale.
 
Interesting. I suppose this is the first time we've seen Allfather Thor tap into his Phoenix powers, but would it be so massive of a change that it would be worth a new key? It might be one of those one-off things since Jason Aaron's Avengers run is over.
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
Interesting. I suppose this is the first time we've seen Allfather Thor tap into his Phoenix powers, but would it be so massive of a change that it would be worth a new key? It might be one of those one-off things since Jason Aaron's Avengers run is over.
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It could just be "higher with full potential" or something.
 
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I mean, if you say it's a 1-A feat then we could be specific on the key. But just out of curiosity--and to avoid highballing unnecessarily--what makes this 1-A rather than 2-A?
 
Yes, it is likely a 1-A feat, but it creates massive scaling problems, since now suddenly all skyfathers would retroactively be of a comparable scale.
 
It may be singular to Thor tapping into his full Phoenix potential. If we include it it could be something along the lines of "2-A, far higher with the Phoenix Force" for his Odinforce key. That would be in addition to his Low 1-A via absorption, so it wouldn't seem too out of place...maybe even 1-A via Phoenix Force within that same key.
 
If i remember well this would scale to old man phonix who alone could keep the wave from destroying everything for a while, then it would scale to the rest of the phoenix since they helped out once old man phoenix got tired, and would also scale to the celestials since deathlock celestial managed to hold the wave in a much better way by filling the hole with his body. I think this might bring a lot of problems. Also Robbie ghost rider is alive in there that would make Robbie 1-A too.
For me Jason Aaron went too far.
 
Antvasima said:
So should we just ignore this story? These are explicit feats after all.
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Thats up to you to judge this as acceptable or not but for me this is just huge outlier Robbie for example is still 5-B and now he is gonna turn 1-A, it seems counter productive to have Thor and Phoenix hosts scaling to the same level as the top gods of Marvel, imagine if in a week or so Cyclops phoenix force host scales to 1-A as much as anyone who scales to him?
 
Yes, Aaron doesn't make any sense as usual.
 
It depends on how large part of it that was affected.
 
From what I understand, Robbie wouldn't scale in any way. Iron Man said that the only way to close the gateway to the First Firmament permanently was to blast it from the inside, which Robbie did. He destroyed the portal, not the FF itself.
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
From what I understand, Robbie wouldn't scale in any way. Iron Man said that the only way to close the gateway to the First Firmament permanently was to blast it from the inside, which Robbie did. He destroyed the portal, not the FF itself.
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No one here destroyed the first firmament they are scaling for stopping the energy that comes from the first firmament capable of destroying everything. He pushed through to get in the first firmament to permanently close the hole
 
Well, tier 1-A superheroes doesn't particularly seem to make sense... at all, and our scaling would end up all over the place afterwards, so I am not sure how we should handle this issue.
 
This'll be a fun headache. I'd suggest calling relevant supporters and staff to clear this up, that is, if they haven't been called yet.
 
Excel616 said:
You guys should please wait for Ultima CRT to be done. Then if he didn't touch these areas , we can then continue with this thread. 🙏🙏
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It's fine by me to wait but i dont think its gonna change, i mean this here would basically turn a bunch of 2-A into 1-A because of scaling to phoenix hosts. It would be funny to think Captain America was 1-A when he fought during the Phoenix tournament.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
It's fine by me to wait but i dont think its gonna change, i mean this here would basically turn a bunch of 2-A into 1-A because of scaling to phoenix hosts. It would be funny to think Captain America was 1-A when he fought during the Phoenix tournament.
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No street level character should get 1-A key.
 
Would it be worth considering a far higher, possibly 1-A with Phoenix potential for Allfather Thor's current 2-A key? He already has Low 1-A via Absorption so it wouldn't be that out of place.
 
After Ultima is done, we will propably have tier 0 regular superheroes, despite that this storyline helps to prove that the current Marvel Comics writers and editors never remotely intended anywhere near such extreme power structures for the setting.
 
Antvasima said:
After Ultima is done, we will propably have tier 0 regular superheroes, despite that this storyline helps to prove that the current Marvel Comics writers and editors never remotely intended anywhere near such extreme power structures for the setting.
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Why do you think that?
 
I have already mentioned that in the other thread.
 
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