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(Concluded) High 8-C Tournament: 20% Deku vs Toph
- Thread starter KingEzran
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Deku FRA
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She would probably destabilize Deku (it is her usual 1 on 1 method and he has iron in his shoe) the earth/metal armour is to protect against fire bending and takes away mobility .Kingofwolves999 said:
And lets say she does not and Deku "filcks his finger" since it's an open field that would only give her distance (she will not hit any walls and regain posture) and cover everything in dust...Plus,since she fights against benders and would clearly feel threatened by strange movements (since she is blind ).
Next Deku only has " Above Average" and Toph is "Combat Smart and an Earth Bending Master" ,she wins in fighting wits and lets not speak about how she was a ungerground fighting master from the beginning and is accustomed to fighting benders (long to short-range fighters) and would know how to doge a "Detroit Smash: straightforward punch to the opponent".
Also, a field is not Deku's element, he is better at fighting in closed spaces or confined where his maneuverability highly increases and his enemy cannot escape. In a field he is completely at loss since you cannot change directions easily when jumping (it would be easy for her to feel the force and direction).Unless he smashed her against the floor most impacts are greatly reduced and aerial movements are are not an option.
And all this is only kid Toph (before she met Aang) after meeting Aang she quicly overcame his air bending techniques and even resisted fighting combustion man with terrain disadvantage and "Superhuman Physical Characteristics ".
Midoriya has a greater destructive force and higher rank but he is not durable on his own , he would just be like a glass cannon shooting at a fly. He needs a team to display his potential.
(I clearly see her winning)
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Toph needs to touch metal to bend it, so she can't "destabilize" Deku from range. She'd sense his metal, but she can't do anything to stop his movements.
Toph can't sense air bending, so she wouldn't know she needs to dodge an air blast. Also, Deku fights by getting in close, then getting in the air and air blasting, so the distance isn't going to be large anyway.
Their intelligence is very much comparable, and Deku would analyze her earthbending moments after seeing it. Intelligence ratings are mostly arbitrary. Also, Deku isn't going to go for a Detroit smaash as a first move against an opponent at ranged while in 20%, he'd go for a Delaware Smash Air Force, which would one shot Toph.
You're correct that open spaces aren't Deku's best element, but considering he now has some form of pseudo flight, and is fighting someone that can manipulate the ground, he can still easily move in the air, or just use her earthbending against her to outmaneuver her and one shot.
Also, since the upgrades, Deku can one shot Toph's earth walls.
When did Toph overcome Aang's airbending techniques? Last I checked she never beat Aang when he was using his airbending. She also never beat Combustion Man, who consistently one shotted her Earth walls.
"Not durable"? Deku's durability and stamina are way higher than Toph's, and why would they matter if he's going to be ending this fight as fast as possible? He does not need a team to reach his potential, he can do fine on his own, don't downplay him.
Deku currently has higher AP, Dura, stamina (even at 20%, his pain tolerance is insanely high) and a maneuverability advantage, on top of his incredibly high analysis. Toph has battlefield control and skill, but can't sense his air blasts and gets one shot by any stray attack. She can't keep him away from her, he's going to read her movements and catch her eventually.
Toph can't sense air bending, so she wouldn't know she needs to dodge an air blast. Also, Deku fights by getting in close, then getting in the air and air blasting, so the distance isn't going to be large anyway.
Their intelligence is very much comparable, and Deku would analyze her earthbending moments after seeing it. Intelligence ratings are mostly arbitrary. Also, Deku isn't going to go for a Detroit smaash as a first move against an opponent at ranged while in 20%, he'd go for a Delaware Smash Air Force, which would one shot Toph.
You're correct that open spaces aren't Deku's best element, but considering he now has some form of pseudo flight, and is fighting someone that can manipulate the ground, he can still easily move in the air, or just use her earthbending against her to outmaneuver her and one shot.
Also, since the upgrades, Deku can one shot Toph's earth walls.
When did Toph overcome Aang's airbending techniques? Last I checked she never beat Aang when he was using his airbending. She also never beat Combustion Man, who consistently one shotted her Earth walls.
"Not durable"? Deku's durability and stamina are way higher than Toph's, and why would they matter if he's going to be ending this fight as fast as possible? He does not need a team to reach his potential, he can do fine on his own, don't downplay him.
Deku currently has higher AP, Dura, stamina (even at 20%, his pain tolerance is insanely high) and a maneuverability advantage, on top of his incredibly high analysis. Toph has battlefield control and skill, but can't sense his air blasts and gets one shot by any stray attack. She can't keep him away from her, he's going to read her movements and catch her eventually.
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Deku also has control over his black whip quirk now, so he can just use it to lift Toph off the ground and towards him. She doesn't have the Lifting Strength to break free from black whip, nor does she have any hope of sensing it.
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Deku does have earth under his feet...(the metal would let her sense him always and she could manipulate it and even mold it a little).And unless he goes all out at the start she will trip him or at least reduce this mobility (via making everything quick sand of encasing his feet)Kingofwolves999 said:
And I did not mean stamina-wise most of his moves cause seif-harm."Using 20% of his power causes his movements to become stiff and predictable" + Toph is not dumb + terrain disadvantage .Also he can only go straight against a person that does not need to see him /expert fighter(1 on 1 is even her speciality), she even knows with how much force he is going.And he is only faster if he uses this self harming tecnique.
Plus Toph can go earth bending whilst running for more than half a day (she has quite the endourance).
Also unless he full force Detroit smashes her at the start she will make it so she senses any of his movements and they will each know their respective abilities(with Deku being in disadvantageous terrain) .And if he doesn't she will even be in more advantage .
My point is not that she defeated "Combustion Man" which she did, it is that she went unscathed against a mid aged assassin with "Superhuman Physical Characteristics "(the most similar thing to a more experienced Deku in their verse) and other abilities whilst in hostile territory (and other terrain). And I think she did win against Aang ,but the thing is she fights people who manipulate (not only throw ) air /water/fire/arrows and non earth-based weapons) and she does this only knowing their feet vibration (and then again Deku has metal on him)
Plus Toph is very agresive and an expert with talent, she probes/starts with fast attacks and taunts. Experience wise even kid Toph wins to present Deku since fighting was almost the only thing in her life. Even you say he "pseudo fights ".
Deku can only catch up to her with self harming techniques that do in streight line and he can't even control she would easily doge him and even Toph being blind maneuvering in the air in a field would only leave him open.
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Toph FRA.
GoCommitDi
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Why are people voting when this was added to both profiles forever ago? Actually why is OP still counting votes?
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Deku is going to be mid air for a majority of this fight, wdym he has earth underneath his feet? Deku fights by leaping into the air, Toph can't destabilize his footing if he's barely on the ground.
Deku is, absolutely, without a doubt, going to go all out at the start of this fight. That is what 20% Deku does. He is strained by being at 20%, so he goes all out to end fights as fast as possible.
Deku's moves do not hurt him at 20%, just being at 20% causes him doscomfort. His movements being stiff is irrelevant because all of his movements one shot her from range. I never claimed Toph was dumb, but you can't just ignore the intense disadvantages she is at.
Toph can't sense Deku properly while he's midair.
She can't sense airbending as good as she can other bending.
She gets one shot by all his attacks.
Deku can one break her earth walls easily.
Deku can analyze her abilities and counter her just like he did Overhaul and Gentle.
Deku can use his black whip quirk, which Toph cannot sense because his whips are energy, and just pick her up and punch her.
Toph has never fought anyone with this many advantages over her, how is she supposed to come out victoriously more times than not? If her only win condition is "live long enough Deku loses 20%", she's going to be trying to stall for an obscenely long time given Deku's pain tolerance, and it'll be an uphill battle because Deku will begin countering all of her attacks better and better the longer the fight goes.
Also, do you really think Deku won't realize Toph is blind and sensing him through vibrations? That would be one of the first things Deku would figure out about her as he gets close, and especially after she attacks him whenever he touches the ground with her earthbending. Deku would take advantage of Toph's blindness and limited senses immediately, and since all he needs is a single hit, I don't see how Toph can counter him.
Toph cannot fight for half a day straight, the only feat remotely similar to that was when she and the Gaang were running from Azula, and she was absolutely affected by that.
Toph senses the vibrations in the earth to fight benders. Fantastic for her if her opponent is on the ground.
Deku will not fight on the ground against someone who controls the ground. He will immediately leap into the air and begin using air blasts and black whip when she reveals her power.
Deku outskills and is comparable in fighting prowess to people with decades of experience over him, as well as students that are claimed as literal geniuses in combat. Toph is not the only one who has statements of talent.
I said "pseudo flight" not "fights." As in Deku can imitate flying by using air pressure. Which is what he'll do to counter Toph's earthbending.
Deku uses black whip and Toph immediately loses. Deku touches her and she immediately loses. Deku figures out Toph's fighting style and she loses.
Deku would move in a "straight line," maybe once, but after seeing her manipulating the ground, would take to the sky and begin analyzing her moves while using air pressure and black whip, one of which she can barely, but arguably defend against, while the other she has absolutely no defense against.
The only win condition for Toph is outlasting Deku, which is borderline impossible. He can easily take and dish out more damage than her, can use her own bending against her, uses one of her biggest weaknesses by being airborne, and another by using air pressure.
If Deku ever, at any point in time, uses Black Whip, Toph will lose easily,
Deku is, absolutely, without a doubt, going to go all out at the start of this fight. That is what 20% Deku does. He is strained by being at 20%, so he goes all out to end fights as fast as possible.
Deku's moves do not hurt him at 20%, just being at 20% causes him doscomfort. His movements being stiff is irrelevant because all of his movements one shot her from range. I never claimed Toph was dumb, but you can't just ignore the intense disadvantages she is at.
Toph can't sense Deku properly while he's midair.
She can't sense airbending as good as she can other bending.
She gets one shot by all his attacks.
Deku can one break her earth walls easily.
Deku can analyze her abilities and counter her just like he did Overhaul and Gentle.
Deku can use his black whip quirk, which Toph cannot sense because his whips are energy, and just pick her up and punch her.
Toph has never fought anyone with this many advantages over her, how is she supposed to come out victoriously more times than not? If her only win condition is "live long enough Deku loses 20%", she's going to be trying to stall for an obscenely long time given Deku's pain tolerance, and it'll be an uphill battle because Deku will begin countering all of her attacks better and better the longer the fight goes.
Also, do you really think Deku won't realize Toph is blind and sensing him through vibrations? That would be one of the first things Deku would figure out about her as he gets close, and especially after she attacks him whenever he touches the ground with her earthbending. Deku would take advantage of Toph's blindness and limited senses immediately, and since all he needs is a single hit, I don't see how Toph can counter him.
Toph cannot fight for half a day straight, the only feat remotely similar to that was when she and the Gaang were running from Azula, and she was absolutely affected by that.
Toph senses the vibrations in the earth to fight benders. Fantastic for her if her opponent is on the ground.
Deku will not fight on the ground against someone who controls the ground. He will immediately leap into the air and begin using air blasts and black whip when she reveals her power.
Deku outskills and is comparable in fighting prowess to people with decades of experience over him, as well as students that are claimed as literal geniuses in combat. Toph is not the only one who has statements of talent.
I said "pseudo flight" not "fights." As in Deku can imitate flying by using air pressure. Which is what he'll do to counter Toph's earthbending.
Deku uses black whip and Toph immediately loses. Deku touches her and she immediately loses. Deku figures out Toph's fighting style and she loses.
Deku would move in a "straight line," maybe once, but after seeing her manipulating the ground, would take to the sky and begin analyzing her moves while using air pressure and black whip, one of which she can barely, but arguably defend against, while the other she has absolutely no defense against.
The only win condition for Toph is outlasting Deku, which is borderline impossible. He can easily take and dish out more damage than her, can use her own bending against her, uses one of her biggest weaknesses by being airborne, and another by using air pressure.
If Deku ever, at any point in time, uses Black Whip, Toph will lose easily,
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You assume way too many things and use circular reasoning and other fallacy...Kingofwolves999 said:
Toph can sense Deku (metal in his gear + sand/dust)
She can't sense any non-earth bending ,she predicts from the vibrations/body/experience...
"She gets one shot by all his attacks" since he can't fully control the 20% but she is an underground fighting champio
Some of your claims are groundless,iske his experience,and out skilling...
"Deku can one break her earth walls easily" , against a large attack a pit is the best choice.
,,,(at least give some arguments or feats)
All is on the assumption thar he survives after some close range losses in the ground. Overhaul had less practice han Toph (going all out with his quirk) even then Deku only survived and pulled it off thanks to Eri.
It is true I didn't give much thought to the black wip .But being in the air is his loss. He maneuvers worse than in earth (if the terrain was normal) staying in the air would consume his stamina faster and fill the air with dust giving Toph greater advantage (she is also sand bender) and giving him less visibility.Having no target he cannot do anything.
In the sky the greater the distance, the weaker his attacks are and if he getos close he won't see.
Has he ever used the whip when flying an extended period?
It irritates me how in your reasoning only Deku analyzes.
The truth is that is the Deku has a time limit but that is his certain loss condition not Toph's win condition.
And just as flying and the whip are not Dekus main options Toph can also go underground .But before that if he falls to the ground he will surely lose
As you can reason Deku can win only if he catches Toph but he has no precision with his top speed and this top speed and speed advantage is based that he has his feet on a wall or the ground which are of earth...
And then again she can go aginst pro benders why not against Dekus new quirk?
And it is even in the wiki " Using 20% of his power causes his movements to become stiff and predictable due to the pain in his bones and muscles, and will eventually cause damage to Izuku if used for too long. He can only use Blackwhip for a second."
He cannot maintain 20% a long time.
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what is he even supposed to do with a second of Blackwhip ?
Jackythejack
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Toph FRA
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I did not say anything unreasonable it is just that we did not vote before. Plus MHA is not finished so most result will be a bit too favourable since it has an active fandom.
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They can't vote on a concludes match. It's past grace period. If they have a big enough issue with it, they can make a rematch thread.
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,020
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So the match was added?
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,020
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Ah, my bad
GoCommitDi
Any/All- 4,831
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GoCommitDi said:
GoCommitDi
Any/All- 4,831
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Wait nvm
Someone should close this, if people disagree that much make a rematch
Someone should close this, if people disagree that much make a rematch
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I have not used any fallacy or circular reasoning whatsoever though??? I have literally just stated what advantages Deku has over Toph and claimed that he would win based on those. You're the one who commented on an already concluded thread with arguments that I've addressed previously.
I know Toph can sense Deku midair,thats why I said she can't do it well. Compare Toph being able to sense metal in Korra's bloodstream to her sensing the metal on Deku. The only parts of Deku she can see at all would be his boots and gloves. What does that even tell her for her to reliably block all of his attacks when he's mid air? I've addressed this point several times, Toph is not going to know that air pressure waves are coming her way just from sensing Deku flicking his fingers in her general direction through his gloves. That is far fetched at best.
She predicts from vibrations through the ground, yes. That doesn't help her when Deku is midair and she can only sense the small metals on his equipment.
Toph DOES get one shot by any attack from Deku, her being better than other featless fodder is not going to increase her durability.
Deku at 20% is much stronger than his 8% key, so much so that he can one shot people comparable to his 8% self, which is 3.19 tons. Toph's earth walls scale to somewhat over 3 tons at best, as no one on team avatar scales to combustion man other than Aang with air/fire bending and Zuko. Toph's earth walls are not strong enough to stand up to Deku at 20%, he can break them easily, and has shown himself capable of doing so to other high 8-c earth walls.
You want feats of Deku breaking earth? Deku vs Overhaul, he breaks the ground so badly it fragments into pieces so small Overhaul can't even use them. He stomps the ground so hard he blocks Overhaul's quirk several times. He blocks attacks from Overhaul by breaking the rocks attempting to stab him.
You want feats of intelligence? Deku analyzed the speed at which Overhaul could use his quirk in the 2 minutes he's seen his quirk in action. Deku beat the Gentle Criminal by analyzing his fighting style and countering him through superior tactics like fake outs and improvisation. He used Gentle's own elasticity quirk against him several times, and could predict every single instance of his quirk being used, while midair, after having been unable to do so not even a minute earlier. That isn't even regarding the fact that Gentle has been honing his powers for decades, and could causally stomp pro heroes with more experience than Deku as well.
It is not an assumption that Deku will survive the initial assault on Toph from the ground, it is an absolute. There is nothing in Toph's arsenal that Deku has not already seen and can predict or react to in seconds. Deku will easily figure out what Toph's powers are and counter her accordingly, learning more and more about her as the fight goes on, while she's going to be given more and more disadvantages.
Are you kidding with the Overhaul example? Deku lost to Overhaul not because of his power, but because Overhaul has some of the best prediction abilities in the verse, and even then Overhaul couldn't kill Deku in retaliation because Deku destroyed most of the battlefield. There was a lot more going on in that battle than "Deku didn't beat someone similar to Toph so he loses to Toph". That battle was months ago to Deku, who has become far more skilled and now has the experience to deal with people like Overhaul, he's not just perpetually bad at fighting earth manipulators now.
Deku can maneuver just as well mid air as he can on the ground currently in the manga. He has not had issues midair for literally months, your information is absolutely outdated on this front. He learned to apply precise movements while midair from breakdance training with Mina, and applied it perfectly against Gentle several times in the fight. Every instance of Deku using black whip has been him using it midair. When he wants to use Air Force, he goes into the air. You have no idea what you're talking about if you're still saying Deku has trouble fighting in mid air.
What dust is being kicked up, they're in an open plain??? I'm assuming there's just grass and dirt, Deku isn't punching dust clouds into existence. Any air pressure hits from Deku that hit the ground are just breaking the ground further. Also, Toph has never shown the capability to bend the dust kicked up from other people's attacks to attack them back. She is a sand bender but that doesn't means she can do what you're claiming she can.
> "Has he ever used the whip while flying an extended period"
> Every instance of Deku using black whip is him in midair
Deku uses black whip almost exclusively in midair, idk what you mean when you ask this question. He would leap into the air, pull out black whip, and grab Toph. She has no counter to this.
Also Deku can't fly for long, that's why I said he'll react to her when he lands on the ground again. Also, Deku touching the ground does not guarantee a loss, what are you talking about? Toph has no way of hurting Deku without him reacting, and he'll just escape into the sky again, or break any attempts at attacking him with his sheer AP.
I honestly don't care if it irritates you that Deku analyzing Toph's moveset and abilities will result in a win for him, because I'm just stating what he can do. Deku's analysis is better than what Toph can handle at the severe disadvantages she is under. He will predict her bending attacks and will beat her.
Deku's time limit with 20% is incredibly arbitrary as he says that he can't hold it for long due to pain, which in the current manga isn't even as bad anymore, but then proceeds to hold it for several minutes, while being impaled several times. Deku's pain tolerance is high enough, especially currently, that he can hold 20% longer than what you're assumig just from reading his profile and taking his words from months ago at face value. There is a time limit, but it not only has definitely increased from the Overhaul arc, but is already not even much of a factor to Deku because of his pain tolerance.
Toph will not go underground in character, you yourself said her fighting style is agressive. By the time she could ever come to that conclusion, she'll have been one shotted or tangled by the black whip.
Deku wins if he touches Toph with any of his moves that immediately one shot her, and that she can barely sense.
What do benders have to do with dealing with black whip????? Name a single bender in Avatar that Toph has beaten while they are mid air and reaching to grab her from several meters away with no tell or sign of what they are doing, or them being capable of doing so.
By this logic, Deku beat the Gentle Criminal who beat professional heroes, so why can't he deal with Toph? The line of reasoning you just used for Toph dealing with black whip is faulty.
Read above for what 20% full cowl is like in the current manga, it doesn't even damage Deku anymore by his own words, just causes pain, which he can deal with. Stiff movements are true, but any one of those "stiff" movements would one shot Toph from several meters away, and she can't even capitalize on them because she can barely sense his presence when he's mid air.
Black whip being usable for only a second is incorrect, Deku can clearly hold it for longer than that currently in the manga, and it should be updated. He just recently grabbed several villain bots from tens of meters away from, pulled them in, and destroyed all of them with a single kick. "Can only be used for a second" is either clear misinformation or a hyperbole on how long he can use it currently. He can very easily extend black whip out far enough to reach and grab Toph, then pull her in for an attack, him holding it for only a single second is ridiculous.
He also doesn't hold 20% for as short of a time as you're implying. The time Deku can hold 20% is arbitrary, but considering his pain tolerance, we can assume it's for a decent portion of his stamina, especially since it doesn't even damage his body anymore by his own admission. If all the information about Deku you're getting is from only his profile, and you haven't actually read the MHA manga, then your information isn't accurate as you have no context. Deku's pain tolerance has only increased, as has his ability to use higher percents of OFA. He isn't going to run out of 20% 30 seconds into the fight.
I know Toph can sense Deku midair,thats why I said she can't do it well. Compare Toph being able to sense metal in Korra's bloodstream to her sensing the metal on Deku. The only parts of Deku she can see at all would be his boots and gloves. What does that even tell her for her to reliably block all of his attacks when he's mid air? I've addressed this point several times, Toph is not going to know that air pressure waves are coming her way just from sensing Deku flicking his fingers in her general direction through his gloves. That is far fetched at best.
She predicts from vibrations through the ground, yes. That doesn't help her when Deku is midair and she can only sense the small metals on his equipment.
Toph DOES get one shot by any attack from Deku, her being better than other featless fodder is not going to increase her durability.
Deku at 20% is much stronger than his 8% key, so much so that he can one shot people comparable to his 8% self, which is 3.19 tons. Toph's earth walls scale to somewhat over 3 tons at best, as no one on team avatar scales to combustion man other than Aang with air/fire bending and Zuko. Toph's earth walls are not strong enough to stand up to Deku at 20%, he can break them easily, and has shown himself capable of doing so to other high 8-c earth walls.
You want feats of Deku breaking earth? Deku vs Overhaul, he breaks the ground so badly it fragments into pieces so small Overhaul can't even use them. He stomps the ground so hard he blocks Overhaul's quirk several times. He blocks attacks from Overhaul by breaking the rocks attempting to stab him.
You want feats of intelligence? Deku analyzed the speed at which Overhaul could use his quirk in the 2 minutes he's seen his quirk in action. Deku beat the Gentle Criminal by analyzing his fighting style and countering him through superior tactics like fake outs and improvisation. He used Gentle's own elasticity quirk against him several times, and could predict every single instance of his quirk being used, while midair, after having been unable to do so not even a minute earlier. That isn't even regarding the fact that Gentle has been honing his powers for decades, and could causally stomp pro heroes with more experience than Deku as well.
It is not an assumption that Deku will survive the initial assault on Toph from the ground, it is an absolute. There is nothing in Toph's arsenal that Deku has not already seen and can predict or react to in seconds. Deku will easily figure out what Toph's powers are and counter her accordingly, learning more and more about her as the fight goes on, while she's going to be given more and more disadvantages.
Are you kidding with the Overhaul example? Deku lost to Overhaul not because of his power, but because Overhaul has some of the best prediction abilities in the verse, and even then Overhaul couldn't kill Deku in retaliation because Deku destroyed most of the battlefield. There was a lot more going on in that battle than "Deku didn't beat someone similar to Toph so he loses to Toph". That battle was months ago to Deku, who has become far more skilled and now has the experience to deal with people like Overhaul, he's not just perpetually bad at fighting earth manipulators now.
Deku can maneuver just as well mid air as he can on the ground currently in the manga. He has not had issues midair for literally months, your information is absolutely outdated on this front. He learned to apply precise movements while midair from breakdance training with Mina, and applied it perfectly against Gentle several times in the fight. Every instance of Deku using black whip has been him using it midair. When he wants to use Air Force, he goes into the air. You have no idea what you're talking about if you're still saying Deku has trouble fighting in mid air.
What dust is being kicked up, they're in an open plain??? I'm assuming there's just grass and dirt, Deku isn't punching dust clouds into existence. Any air pressure hits from Deku that hit the ground are just breaking the ground further. Also, Toph has never shown the capability to bend the dust kicked up from other people's attacks to attack them back. She is a sand bender but that doesn't means she can do what you're claiming she can.
> "Has he ever used the whip while flying an extended period"
> Every instance of Deku using black whip is him in midair
Deku uses black whip almost exclusively in midair, idk what you mean when you ask this question. He would leap into the air, pull out black whip, and grab Toph. She has no counter to this.
Also Deku can't fly for long, that's why I said he'll react to her when he lands on the ground again. Also, Deku touching the ground does not guarantee a loss, what are you talking about? Toph has no way of hurting Deku without him reacting, and he'll just escape into the sky again, or break any attempts at attacking him with his sheer AP.
I honestly don't care if it irritates you that Deku analyzing Toph's moveset and abilities will result in a win for him, because I'm just stating what he can do. Deku's analysis is better than what Toph can handle at the severe disadvantages she is under. He will predict her bending attacks and will beat her.
Deku's time limit with 20% is incredibly arbitrary as he says that he can't hold it for long due to pain, which in the current manga isn't even as bad anymore, but then proceeds to hold it for several minutes, while being impaled several times. Deku's pain tolerance is high enough, especially currently, that he can hold 20% longer than what you're assumig just from reading his profile and taking his words from months ago at face value. There is a time limit, but it not only has definitely increased from the Overhaul arc, but is already not even much of a factor to Deku because of his pain tolerance.
Toph will not go underground in character, you yourself said her fighting style is agressive. By the time she could ever come to that conclusion, she'll have been one shotted or tangled by the black whip.
Deku wins if he touches Toph with any of his moves that immediately one shot her, and that she can barely sense.
What do benders have to do with dealing with black whip????? Name a single bender in Avatar that Toph has beaten while they are mid air and reaching to grab her from several meters away with no tell or sign of what they are doing, or them being capable of doing so.
By this logic, Deku beat the Gentle Criminal who beat professional heroes, so why can't he deal with Toph? The line of reasoning you just used for Toph dealing with black whip is faulty.
Read above for what 20% full cowl is like in the current manga, it doesn't even damage Deku anymore by his own words, just causes pain, which he can deal with. Stiff movements are true, but any one of those "stiff" movements would one shot Toph from several meters away, and she can't even capitalize on them because she can barely sense his presence when he's mid air.
Black whip being usable for only a second is incorrect, Deku can clearly hold it for longer than that currently in the manga, and it should be updated. He just recently grabbed several villain bots from tens of meters away from, pulled them in, and destroyed all of them with a single kick. "Can only be used for a second" is either clear misinformation or a hyperbole on how long he can use it currently. He can very easily extend black whip out far enough to reach and grab Toph, then pull her in for an attack, him holding it for only a single second is ridiculous.
He also doesn't hold 20% for as short of a time as you're implying. The time Deku can hold 20% is arbitrary, but considering his pain tolerance, we can assume it's for a decent portion of his stamina, especially since it doesn't even damage his body anymore by his own admission. If all the information about Deku you're getting is from only his profile, and you haven't actually read the MHA manga, then your information isn't accurate as you have no context. Deku's pain tolerance has only increased, as has his ability to use higher percents of OFA. He isn't going to run out of 20% 30 seconds into the fight.
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Deku explaining to Endeavor his current power. Directly says 20% doesn't actually do damage to him.
Deku being clearly able to grab MULTIPLE opponents from several meters away and bring them in for an attack.
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The Endeavor statement is even still from a weaker version of Deku btw since he couldn't even use Black Whip properly yet. So after his training under him, he can likely hold 20% for even longer.
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I will not be commenting further on this page. If a rematch is made, I will be there, but for whoever is making the rematch:
Please make sure to actually specify the version of Toph, as well as the AP/Dura's of both her and whichever version of Deku is being used. Having to scour through the wiki to find her AP was annoying, and 20% Deku sucks to debate with because of his arbitrary time limit and AP.
Please make sure to actually specify the version of Toph, as well as the AP/Dura's of both her and whichever version of Deku is being used. Having to scour through the wiki to find her AP was annoying, and 20% Deku sucks to debate with because of his arbitrary time limit and AP.
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The first pannel agrees with my statements,mainly :Kingofwolves999 said:
Deku explaining to Endeavor his current power. Directly says 20% doesn't actually do damage to him.
Deku being clearly able to grab MULTIPLE opponents from several meters away and bring them in for an attack.
1) he cannot start with black whip (so forget nearing the limit of 20% wich is necesary for air blast +whip combo+stress+taunts )
2)20% is a danger zone (for 20% Deku if he could do more he would not be 20% Deku)
BNHA battles are reatively short do not have ther tension of prolongued battles, (in comparasion Toph&co have been wanted since the start and always in tension / warzone in the span of years)
Next I will do an incise on the other coment
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He didn't have control over black whip in the first panel, so no, it doesn't agree with you, as it's from an earlier point in time to current Deku.
I never said it wasn't a danger zone, just that the argument that Toph is going to outlast Deku is hard to make as he can hold the form for longer than is suggested by his statement several arcs ago, as he not only can still operate in 20% while impales with spikes, but is no longer damaged by the the form as well.
I never said it wasn't a danger zone, just that the argument that Toph is going to outlast Deku is hard to make as he can hold the form for longer than is suggested by his statement several arcs ago, as he not only can still operate in 20% while impales with spikes, but is no longer damaged by the the form as well.
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1)gloves and boots are what let Deku near his limt (protecting his limbs and enhancing him) but they are also the most important parts she needs to look out for (an coincidentaly have metal) and knowing these 4 she surely knows what he is doing and is ging to do .
2)of course she can sense a piece of metal let alone 4 (peomle usualy have 8mg/L that is less than a needl)
3)Stop using Overhaul that is 100%ish Deku with the asistence of Eri that reverted him to when he was fine.
4)Anyhting that is not stated is your asumption just as I am doing mine .Plus even Toph kid end series could one shot her initial-self (I am just saying that starting that;
starting kid Toph has at least 20% of winnig and surely can resist some time,
final series kid Toph at least 90%
lastly her adult self is proficient enough to control his key equimpent and stop him from moving and all this is current Deku ,20% Deku is even weaker.
5)flight is still a bad option for him (sock waves are cuadratically weaker with distance ) and will make everything dusty even a tier 10 can make it dusty hitting the floor.
6)here some Naruto quote "were there is earth y will make sand"
7)lets agree to disagree wether Toph can dogge the whip
8)I do not consider the whip because Toph outranges him he will get continuously hit by derbiss(medium rocks and sand prob.) Toph can win with this alone since the beggining
9)please keep it shorter
2)of course she can sense a piece of metal let alone 4 (peomle usualy have 8mg/L that is less than a needl)
3)Stop using Overhaul that is 100%ish Deku with the asistence of Eri that reverted him to when he was fine.
4)Anyhting that is not stated is your asumption just as I am doing mine .Plus even Toph kid end series could one shot her initial-self (I am just saying that starting that;
starting kid Toph has at least 20% of winnig and surely can resist some time,
final series kid Toph at least 90%
lastly her adult self is proficient enough to control his key equimpent and stop him from moving and all this is current Deku ,20% Deku is even weaker.
5)flight is still a bad option for him (sock waves are cuadratically weaker with distance ) and will make everything dusty even a tier 10 can make it dusty hitting the floor.
6)here some Naruto quote "were there is earth y will make sand"
7)lets agree to disagree wether Toph can dogge the whip
8)I do not consider the whip because Toph outranges him he will get continuously hit by derbiss(medium rocks and sand prob.) Toph can win with this alone since the beggining
9)please keep it shorter
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some Fallacies you use:
1. Ad Hominem:You have no idea what you're talking about
straw man(inmediately negated):She predicts from vibrations through the ground, yes. That doesn't help her when Deku is midair and she can only sense the small metals on his equipment.(just ctrl F "you")
Red Herring:You want feats of Deku breaking earth? Deku vs Overhaul, he breaks the ground so badly(the pooint was he was 100% + asistence)
many circular reasoning
...
1. Ad Hominem:You have no idea what you're talking about
straw man(inmediately negated):She predicts from vibrations through the ground, yes. That doesn't help her when Deku is midair and she can only sense the small metals on his equipment.(just ctrl F "you")
Red Herring:You want feats of Deku breaking earth? Deku vs Overhaul, he breaks the ground so badly(the pooint was he was 100% + asistence)
many circular reasoning
...
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