Cj possible upgrade

[Ahmed_Sakr_Salman]

new tier:likely 8-C

AP: likely building level ne exploder weapon from cj can destroy an andromada plane and there is inside the plane a large room as it showed on the mission: stowaway that's without talking about how large is the androwmada

speed:subsonic reactions:can dodge rockets which it able to keep up with hydra plane

durability:likely building level:Ôû¬can tank.3 rockets which is able to destroy an andromada

Ôû¬can survive after being crushed from a tank which it could destroy an andromada

standard equipment:a GPS could analyze about tens of kilometers around him

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Uh all of these require scans, but Building Level requires more reasoning then just "there's a large room inside the plane". Also I'm pretty sure in San Andreas you can't outright react to Rockets unless they're far from you, and I mean far. Finally durability portion, I don't remember at all in San Andreas being able to tank anything explosion related unless you were a certain distance away. And being crushed by a tank =/= the Tank's AP.

 

[KLOL506]

Uh all of these require scans, but Building Level requires more reasoning then just "there's a large room inside the plane". Also I'm pretty sure in San Andreas you can't outright react to Rockets unless they're far from you, and I mean far. Finally durability portion, I don't remember at all in San Andreas being able to tank anything explosion related unless you were a certain distance away. And being crushed by a tank =/= the Tank's AP.

Either way, CJ should have Wall level AP anyway. He can blow up cars after repeatedly hitting them (Even with flowers, LOL), can knock down lamp posts, metal fences and even locks (In the mission The Da Nang Thang, there is a container with a lock you have to open. You can either choose to shoot it or just punch it, either one works and the lock is completely destroyed). CJ can also mangle up car bodies, dent and then rip them apart with his strikes, just like the other 3-D protagonists, so there's that.

And yes, you can tank rocket launcher shots at point-blank range. You only need to aim a few inches away from the ground to give the rocket room to fire at top speed.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The car part is chip damage and he can only knock down lamp posts with cars. Does the mission tell you to shoot it? Cause if so the punching part is just a game mechanic. He mangles them up after like several punches.

I do not recall this, best I've ever tanked from an explosion is being 1 chip away from dying, and by that point that's not even tanking.

 

[KLOL506]

The car part is chip damage and he can only knock down lamp posts with cars. Does the mission tell you to shoot it? Cause if so the punching part is just a game mechanic. He mangles them up after like several punches.
I do not recall this, best I've ever tanked from an explosion is being 1 chip away from dying, and by that point that's not even tanking.

Wut?

Chip damage or not, that's still Wall level, as he can dent metal with a single hit and rip apart car doors, trunks and hoods, and no, you could only knock down lamp posts with cars in the games pre-GTA SA (here you can knock down anything with two to three hits, minus trees and wooden electric poles). Seriously, did you play it properly? And I could tank upto two Homing Launcher shots before dying without armor with all the Health upgrades. Also, in-game mechanics or not, it's still a feat that is consistent with the rest of the series, and no, you can one-shot the lock unarmed.

BTW, the car thing and lamp post thing is also acknowledged for GTA SA only in the GTA wiki

 

[KLOL506]

Here:


I'm playing this on the PC, BTW, and it's the beginning of the game. You can do this on all platforms. This is the stock version, BTW, no mods or any of that (Not like there are mods for stuff like this anyway).

I also tested out the Homing Launcher by spawning it via cheat. And without the health upgrades, he can survive only one, and while his health was reduced drastically, it was still take a few gunshots to end it, and while his health may go down, he'll still keep standing until the bar's reduced to zero or he refills it. Nobody said you had to tank anything to get durability. I guess you didn't finish the Ambulance missions, I could easily survive falls after that without the parachute from any height.

After maxing out his health, however, he can easily tank two of those before flat-out dying. Building his muscles up and learning combat skills will even allow him to dispatch of metal poles faster.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

That looks like game mechanics. Cause I remember you could somehow push a car in that game via running, so the scripting wasn't as good.

 

[KLOL506]

That looks like game mechanics. Cause I remember you could somehow push a car in that game via running, so the scripting wasn't as good.

Running and moving a car is a different thing. Here you have to actually punch, and you need to do it twice and use the right mouse button. Also, game mechanics like these don't contradict much, so I believe it should be safe to use anyway. You can also kill Big Smoke unarmed in the final mission, BTW, or any armored guard, for the matter.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

How are they different things when both sides show not so good scripting? They contradict a lot however, no NPC in the game can do the same thing(unless you have proof) yet can tank several hits from CJ. Unarmed part/Armored Guards also sound like game mechanic especially since the game expects you to use guns to beat these characters.

 

[KLOL506]

How are they different things when both sides show not so good scripting? They contradict a lot however, no NPC in the game can do the same thing(unless you have proof) yet can tank several hits from CJ. Unarmed part/Armored Guards also sound like game mechanic especially since the game expects you to use guns to beat these characters.

Civilians can't do it because they don't want to go towards the lamp pole in the first place without modding their script to do it, nor do they have anything against the lamp pole. But they have been shown to tear apart car doors, trunks and whatnot with their strikes, actually. It's tough to see them in action, but you can do it.

GTA really is whacky when it comes to cases like this.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You can position a civilian next to a lamp pole and have them attack it by accident and nothing happens. When have they done that?

I don't think "whacky" is a good enough excuse for a feat not being legitimate. They most of the time expect you to use guns in these missions.

 

[KLOL506]

With all that being said, I see no reason why this should be a problem. Even without increasing muscle, it overall has no effect on what CJ can dish out with his strikes.

 

[KLOL506]

You can position a civilian next to a lamp pole and have them attack it by accident and nothing happens. When have they done that?
I don't think "whacky" is a good enough excuse for a feat not being legitimate. They most of the time expect you to use guns in these missions.

Attacking it by accident won't be enough, also, you can't put a civilian in front of a lamp post like that. They're gonna have to concentrate on it and keep repeatedly hitting like CJ to knock it down or use the combat moves. Also, I already mentioned that civilians can dent cars and rip apart car hoods, doors and trunks with their hits, and this is true for the rest of the 3D series, so the lamp thing is moot.

Them expecting you to use guns isn't a good reason either. And why would the random civilians expect you to use guns if ya wanna go at 'em unarmed?

Do note that you can do the stuff mentioned outside of missions too. Also, how are the feats not legit when civilians can do it too under the right conditions?

 

[KLOL506]

Also, doesn't game mechanics involve levels, health bars and whatnot if the enemies are of the same attacking moveset? GTA SA has none of that, it's just like becoming stronger after training and building muscle, but it shouldn't matter, since he can still do the feats without building muscle or learning the combat moves.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I know of some actual feats for CJ that might potentially warrant an upgrade, provided everyone is willing to wait while I gather them all.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You can actually, I've done it several times. They still can't harm the lamp is my point, meaning it's game meachnics at the end of the day. You mentioned that and I literally asked you, "When have they done that?"

It is a very valid reason. ...? I never said that random civilians expect you to use guns, I was talking about the developers expecting you to use guns on Big Smoke and other bosses.

I don't get what this last part is referring too.

 

[KLOL506]

You can actually, I've done it several times. They still can't harm the lamp is my point, meaning it's game meachnics at the end of the day. You mentioned that and I literally asked you, "When have they done that?"
It is a very valid reason. ...? I never said that random civilians expect you to use guns, I was talking about the developers expecting you to use guns on Big Smoke and other bosses.

I don't get what this last part is referring too.

As I said, the lamp thing is moot. They can dent cars and rip off their doors, trunks and hoods off of their hinges. Developers also didn't take into account that the weapons in the game are far, far more powerful than their real-life counterparts either, but hey, that's just me.

Also, I never managed to get a single civilian to knock down a lamp post. Ever. Show me proof that they can't. Not like it would matter anyway because, well, read the first line about the car.

Just because a civilian can't do it to a lamp post but the protagonist can (and consistently too), doesn't mean the feat is invalid. It might be a mechanic, but it's consistent.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Also, doesn't game mechanics involve levels, health bars and whatnot if the enemies are of the same attacking moveset? GTA SA has none of that, it's just like becoming stronger after training and building muscle, but it shouldn't matter, since he can still do the feats without building muscle or learning the combat moves.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Game_Mechanics

Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character/entity's actual abilities. For example, in many Star Wars games, a capital ship can be destroyed by repeated laser attacks from a single fighter (namely, the fighter reduced the capital ship's HP to zero over a number of laser attacks that do a certain amount of damage based on coding in the game's programming). In an actual in-universe battle, however, this would be impossible as the Force shields would recharge faster than the fighter could damage them (HP doesn't exist, that's not how durability functions outside of games. You can't chip away at something and hope to break on through if the fire power that you are packing isn't sufficient enough). Examples include bullets doing minor damage to someone in gameplay in which they are more or less shown to be bullet proof. You once more can't chip away at durability like this in real life (if you can shrug off a bullet once, you can continue to do so without the threat of a continuous number of them hitting you over an inconsistent interval in arbitrary locations). Game mechanics are considered non-canon, and using them in an argument is considered fallacious. In recent years, it seems like numerous individuals have forgotten this basic meaning and arbitrarily call matters that aren't game mechanics, game mechanics.

Where do you see that it only applies to health bars?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

As I said, the lamp thing is moot. They can dent cars and rip off their doors, trunks and hoods off of their hinges.

Also, I never managed to get a single civilian to knock down a lamp post. Ever. Show me proof that they can't.

Third time I'm asking you, when do they do this?

"Developers also didn't take into account that the weapons in the game are far, far more powerful than their real-life counterparts either, but hey, that's just me." When are weapons far more powerful then their real life counterparts?

You're asking me to prove a negative. Adding on that you just admitted 2 sentences ago you never managed to get them to knock down a lamp post.

 

[KLOL506]

As I said, the lamp thing is moot. They can dent cars and rip off their doors, trunks and hoods off of their hinges.

Also, I never managed to get a single civilian to knock down a lamp post. Ever. Show me proof that they can't.

Third time I'm asking you, when do they do this?
"Developers also didn't take into account that the weapons in the game are far, far more powerful than their real-life counterparts either, but hey, that's just me." When are weapons far more powerful then their real life counterparts?

You're asking me to prove a negative. Adding on that you just admitted 2 sentences ago you never managed to get them to knock down a lamp post.

Because you can't even get the civilians to hit the lamp posts or even get them close to the lamp posts. But as I said, they can dent cars. I tried getting them to the lamp posts, but they don't seem to move towards it at all. But when beating up other civilians under cars, they dent them with ease.

Also, the game mechanics section doesn't say much about the striking strength part.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

And as I said, when do they do this?

"Examples include bullets doing minor damage to someone in gameplay in which they are more or less shown to be bullet proof. You once more can't chip away at durability like this in real life (if you can shrug off a bullet once, you can continue to do so without the threat of a continuous number of them hitting you over an inconsistent interval in arbitrary locations)." ^Mentions striking strength in this paragraph giving an example of "chip damage".

 

[KLOL506]

As I said, the lamp thing is moot. They can dent cars and rip off their doors, trunks and hoods off of their hinges.

Also, I never managed to get a single civilian to knock down a lamp post. Ever. Show me proof that they can't.

Third time I'm asking you, when do they do this?
"Developers also didn't take into account that the weapons in the game are far, far more powerful than their real-life counterparts either, but hey, that's just me." When are weapons far more powerful then their real life counterparts?

You're asking me to prove a negative. Adding on that you just admitted 2 sentences ago you never managed to get them to knock down a lamp post.

Ummmmm, the weapons can blow up cars and trucks with utter ease.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Weapons can blow up cars and trucks overtime not with "utter ease". The only way it's with utter ease is if they hit the gas tank.

 

[KLOL506]

Besides, why are we bickering about the lamp post? Did you not see the part where I said that civilians can dent cars and tear apart hoods, doors and trunks after repeatedly hitting them?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I've been stopped talking about the lamp post, I've asked you several times when do they dent the cars?

 

[KLOL506]

Dismissing the feats as game mechanics despite the reasonings being shown and it being heavily consistent really doesn't cut it. At all. Civilians in GTA are not your everyday civilians, they do all sorts of crazy crap no one would even expect them to do, and you have CJ effortlessly mow his way through the in-game counterpart of Area 51 with nothing but a pistol. Now that's not game mechanics, is it? Because the mission gives you the weapons for those tasks.

 

[KLOL506]

And as I said, when do they do this?
"Examples include bullets doing minor damage to someone in gameplay in which they are more or less shown to be bullet proof. You once more can't chip away at durability like this in real life (if you can shrug off a bullet once, you can continue to do so without the threat of a continuous number of them hitting you over an inconsistent interval in arbitrary locations)." ^Mentions striking strength in this paragraph giving an example of "chip damage".

CJ bleeds, he doesn't shrug it off. And he can dent cars with a single hit, not by repeatedly hitting them.

 

[KLOL506]

I've been stopped talking about the lamp post, I've asked you several times when do they dent the cars?

When you see them beating up other pedestrians and they suddenly get near the cars. I've seen it happen many times, actually. Hell, even the police with batons and flowers can do it given the right circumstances, and it's a hell lot easier and more probable than getting them to hit lamp posts.

 

[KLOL506]

Weapons can blow up cars and trucks overtime not with "utter ease". The only way it's with utter ease is if they hit the gas tank.

The weapons do it much faster than the real life counterparts tho, not over an insatiably long period of time.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Dude, I'm being civil, but what are you doing? You're jumping from point to point and ignoring my question now for the fifth time. Now to refute this part:

"Dismissing the feats as game mechanics despite the reasonings being shown really doesn't cut it. At all. Civilians in GTA are not your everyday civilians, they do all sorts of crazy crap no one would even expect them to do, and you have CJ effortlessly mow his way through the in-game counterpart of Area 51 with nothing but a pistol. Now that's not game mechanics, is it? Because the mission gives you the weapons for those tasks."

>The only "reasons" you showed is because CJ can do it, nothing else. Ok, can you show instances of the "crazy crap" they do please? Does the mission imply he only uses a pistol or can you use other weapons? If the latter, then yes it is.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

"The weapons do it much faster than the real life counterparts tho, not over an insatiably long period of time." >Ok proof?

 

[KLOL506]

Dude, I'm being civil, but what are you doing? You're jumping from point to point and ignoring my question now for the fifth time. Now to refute this part:
"Dismissing the feats as game mechanics despite the reasonings being shown really doesn't cut it. At all. Civilians in GTA are not your everyday civilians, they do all sorts of crazy crap no one would even expect them to do, and you have CJ effortlessly mow his way through the in-game counterpart of Area 51 with nothing but a pistol. Now that's not game mechanics, is it? Because the mission gives you the weapons for those tasks."

>The only "reasons" you showed is because CJ can do it, nothing else. Ok, can you show instances of the "crazy crap" they do please? Does the mission imply he only uses a pistol or can you use other weapons? If the latter, then yes it is.

For the last part, not in all the missions.

Also, I already showed how civilians can dent cars.

And I'm legit sure it's impossible to get them to even go near the lamp-posts at all without modding the script.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

What do you mean by this?

You never showed once how civilians can dent cars, you just kept stating they could.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

When you see them beating up other pedestrians and they suddenly get near the cars. I've seen it happen many times, actually. Hell, even the police with batons and flowers can do it given the right circumstances, and it's a hell lot easier and more probable than getting them to hit lamp posts.

"Given the right circumstances" so that's not a legitimate feat, that's chip damage. Didn't you say the lamp post was moot and complaining about me bringing it up(when I didn't after a while)? Why are you suddenly bringing it back up?

 

[KLOL506]

What do you mean by this?
You never showed once how civilians can dent cars, you just kept stating they could.

You didn't see the part where I said "I've seen it happen many times", have you?

Simple, they punch it or use other melee weapons.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

And I'm legit sure it's impossible to get them to even go near the lamp-posts at all without modding the script.

Literal quote from you:

Besides, why are we bickering about the lamp post? Did you not see the part where I said that civilians can dent cars and tear apart hoods, doors and trunks after repeatedly hitting them?

Why are you bringing it back up if you said it's moot?

 

[KLOL506]

When you see them beating up other pedestrians and they suddenly get near the cars. I've seen it happen many times, actually. Hell, even the police with batons and flowers can do it given the right circumstances, and it's a hell lot easier and more probable than getting them to hit lamp posts.

"Given the right circumstances" so that's not a legitimate feat, that's chip damage. Didn't you say the lamp post was moot and complaining about me bringing it up(when I didn't after a while)? Why are you suddenly bringing it back up?

Because you weren't believing me when I said that the civilians don't go near the lamp posts.

Also, the right circumstances thing, it happens a lot. Repeatedly.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You didn't see the part where I said "I've seen it happen many times", have you?

Simple, they punch it or use other melee weapons.

That's.... that's not showing at all. I'm asking for a scan.

 

[KLOL506]

You didn't see the part where I said "I've seen it happen many times", have you?

Simple, they punch it or use other melee weapons.

That's.... that's not showing at all. I'm asking for a scan.

Oh. Okay. Lemme get it.

Or you could try it out for yourself.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Because you weren't believing me when I said that the civilians don't go near the lamp posts.

Also, the right circumstances thing, it happens a lot. Repeatedly.

Nothing you're providing proves they don't and you attempted to ask me to prove a negative. What grounds do I need to believe you on?

Right circumstances implies it needs to be done under a certain situation.