Characters that can defeat/rival EoS Mark Grayson/Thragg/High-Level Viltrumites *Without Hax*

[Jcw33]

(Invincible spoilers, obviously. Potentially spoilers for other series as well. If they're obscene spoilers, please consider tagging them. Please let me know if this post somehow goes against forum rules.)

Hello, everybody. I've made similar/identical threads on other websites before, but never here. I'm a big fan of Invincible, and I'd like to find out from you guys who are some characters that, without hax, without 'because I say so, you turn into dust', without reality warping, can defeat or rival or be peers to Thragg or End of Series Mark, ideally with physical strength, but I would also accept cutting, lasers and such. I've heard Boros from OPM and S-Class demons from Yu Yu Hakusho could be good candidates, but those are the only ones from series I've watched and recognized.

We're using comics feats for Viltrumites here, and I subscribe to the notion that above-average Viltrumites are MFTL with continent/multi-continent level striking capability, and that Thragg/post-upgrade Mark are multi-continent/small moon level. To quote myself on another site-

Omni-Man, Thragg, and End of Series Mark Grayson are members of a species called Viltrumites. They're capable of psychotically fast reactions, MFTL travel speed (outrunning an FTL-capable civilization's best spaceship), continent-level attacks (this was caused by three Viltrumites, with aid from a McGuffin, but I think their exit from the planet proves that they're at least continent-level), and can tank punches from people who are continent-level themselves (other Viltrumites). No scans there because it's kind of self-evident IMO. I am only using feats from canon Invincible comics and tie-ins, no crossovers (so no Solar Man/Supreme scaling here, Viltrumites aren't equivalent to Golden Age Superman, no matter what people try to say).

In an atmosphere, BoS Mark, a newborn Viltrumite whose powers recently awakened is Mach 1700, making it from Baltimore to Antarctica in less than thirty seconds, in addition to the feats listed above, which I think are more accurate for combat scaling than pure travel speed like that. They are also resistant to matter transmutation - Eve, a matter transmutator, bloodlusted and her powers fully awoken, only succeeded in flaying Conquest, who is weaker than Thragg and EoS Mark. Mark was also implied to be able to resist nervous-system mind control more than any other species the mind controlling alien in Brit #7 had ever encountered. So I would argue Viltrumite do have limited hax resistance, but I don't really want that to be the debate here.

So, with the requirements listed here, who are some good continent-level/multi-continent level/small moon level characters that can rival Thragg and EoS Mark Grayson, or even Omni-Man, Conquest, Anissa or Mid-Series Mark Grayson? Looking for characters in the same weight class. I don't want curbstomps here.

Fights begin in an alternate universe devoid of life but otherwise an exact destructible duplicate of ours. Both participants are motivated and believe that the other needs to die.

 

[Vizer04]

This character defeated EoS Mark

 

[Jcw33]

This character defeated EoS Mark

That's pretty neat. It's a shame Steven Universe has what I would personally consider an unpleasant art style, and I haven't seen it and don't plan on it (no disrespect to you and other fans, it's just not something I'd be interested in.) Seems like that character has high-speed regeneration or intangibility. I'd agree, if it has only slightly lesser attack potency/durability, and all of that hax, Mark/Thragg aren't taking it. Haven't seen the show, so I don't really have much ground to stand on here, but from what I can see, that seems about right.

Always interested to hear about potential rivals for high-level vilches, though!

 

[Vizer04]

I think she can also be a good candidate

 

[Imaginym]

Some Legendary &/or Mythical Pokemon are within the tiers you specified.
But Viltrumites having Flight tips the scales a little, & Smart Cells are a pain in the butt even when not using very haxy stuff. Ex: Any Poison users are out the window.

& then there's the question of what actually qualifies as hax. Homing attacks like Aura Sphere & Swift? Basic Psychic attacks, many of which are telekinetic or flat out laser beams? Freezing with ice beam? Absolute Zero via the move Sheer Cold? Electric paralysis? Commonplace status effects like burn? Teleportation? Statistics Manipulation?

Maybe there's a Pokemon with the necessary skills &/or Flight, but "no hax" is kinda vague. Do you mean just non-violent win conditions? (Even though they could still continue beating up the victim? Ex: Put the Viltrumite to sleep, then beat them up?)

 

[Jcw33]

Some Legendary &/or Mythical Pokemon are within the tiers you specified.
But Viltrumites having Flight tips the scales a little, & Smart Cells are a pain in the butt even when not using very haxy stuff. Ex: Any Poison users are out the window.

& then there's the question of what actually qualifies as hax. Homing attacks like Aura Sphere & Swift? Basic Psychic attacks, many of which are telekinetic or flat out laser beams? Freezing with ice beam? Absolute Zero via the move Sheer Cold? Electric paralysis? Commonplace status effects like burn? Teleportation? Statistics Manipulation?

Maybe there's a Pokemon with the necessary skills &/or Flight, but "no hax" is kinda vague. Do you mean just non-violent win conditions? (Even though they could still continue beating up the victim? Ex: Put the Viltrumite to sleep, then beat them up?)

I don't mind homing attacks. Viltrumites should be largely immune to freezing if they can survive vacuum for long long-times.

I'd oppose psychic attacks that were not purely physical. Like, if you can use your psychic powers to create a telekinetic field around yourself, that's great. I love to see it. But if you use your psychic powers to trap people in a nightmare realm, that's not good. I'm skeptical that paralysis would really work on Viltrumites, but I don't know if I'd necessarily mind someone with electrical paralysis attacks. Burn and teleportation are fine. Statistics manipulation isn't. That's an instant win power, IMO.

I don't want nonviolent win conditions, I guess that's what I'm saying, yeah!

 

[Imaginym]

I don't mind homing attacks. Viltrumites should be largely immune to freezing if they can survive vacuum for long long-times.

Viltrum Empire

The Viltrum Empire is a major alien civilization from the planet Viltrum. The Viltrumites achieved a perfect society after a civil war that resulted in killing the weak so that only the strong will survive. The war resulted in the death of half their population but in a short time the survivors...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Resistance to High Heat and Absolute Zero (Viltrumites have smart atoms that release energy allowing them to survive extreme conditions, however their atoms have a limit to the temperatures they can withstand) as well as Cosmic Radiation (Viltrumites are able to consistently travel through space without suffering any issues)"

I'd question them resisting "Absolute Zero" in the absence of scans, if they have "limits" to the temperatures they can resist, Absolute Zero is going to be beyond those limits, because you can't really go to a further extreme of cold than that; It's when atoms stop moving all together, & lose their cohesion. Atoms move naturally, & a lot, so the explanation that they release energy seems insufficient; Most would do that anyway.

But nonetheless, Absolute Zero (In Pokemon's case, JUST the Sheer Cold move) would be an "insta-win", so kinda off-topic.

I'd oppose psychic attacks that were not purely physical. Like, if you can use your psychic powers to create a telekinetic field around yourself, that's great. I love to see it. But if you use your psychic powers to trap people in a nightmare realm, that's not good.

The majority of Psychic-type attacks in Pokemon aren't Mind Manipulation.
Confusion is a weak telekinetic attack, & Psychic is a strong telekinetic attack.
Psywave & Psyshock are waves, Psybeam is a beam, etc.
Almost no Pokemon move attacks with Mind Manipulation, & that's Night Shade, a Ghost-type attack that most Psychic types don't learn, & that's just as much Illusion Creation as it is Mind Manip anyway, since it's a "frightening mirage".
Telekinesis around one's self is... sort of a thing? Barrier is a barrier, as are Reflect & Light Screen. Gravity increases Gravity, & some Psychic-type Pokemon do fly by what might be telekinesis on themself.

Burn and teleportation are fine. Statistics manipulation isn't. That's an instant win power, IMO.

I don't see how it'd be an "instant win power". In the absence of evidence for other multipliers, most Pokemon Status Manipulation don't change stat stages by more than 1, maybe 2 stages at a time. (One stage being 50% of base when raising from base or above, with stat stages decreasing to below base or lower giving diminishing returns, progressing towards 25% of the victim's maximum.). A Pokemon can't have a stat more than 6 stages above or below its baseline.

Meaning Pokemon Statistics Manipulation will never result in more than a 4x difference in any 1 stat (Unless they ALSO stat drop the opponent, & no move stat drops the foe & stat raises the user both at once.), & it'll still involve investing time & effort into using stat changing moves instead of fighting back or such.

It's hardly an instant win condition.

I don't want nonviolent win conditions, I guess that's what I'm saying, yeah!

Good to know. So I guess that removes things like Perish Song or Curse from the table, in theory.