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Chara vs Giratina

@PaChi

"Countless" and "Countless but also maybe this number" is not a quantifiable difference, though. That's what I mean.

Both need an actual number for there to be a real, quantifiable difference.
 
"Let's address this. No, Giratina has never beat down an idea without a physical form. Every single fight between members of the Creation Trio in the franchise, be it anime, manga, or games, has been between their physical forms. If there is an instance I'm not remembering, then please show me, but I don't ever recall the abstract selves of the Creation Trio doing battle."

Firstly, keep in mind that I still don't buy that Chara's an idea, and I didn't respond because I simply got lazy. Secondly, it's remiss to assume that they can't hit each other at all in their true forms. Chara's profile in general takes bigger leaps in logic than this.

Also, show me once Chara being untouchable in any sense of the word.

"Second, the gap between Giratina and Chara is being blown way the hell out of proportion. The sheer power Giratina is assumed to have is coming from fan theory that makes its "countless" seem way higher than it is, but it is countless all the same. There is zero quantifiable difference between the power levels of these two aside from "one is probably stronger than the other". That isn't even remotely the case for Samurai Jack and Goku. I invite you to check the Attack Potency page and look at the actual, quantifiable difference between Large Building level and baseline Universe level. Now please show me the quantifiable difference between Chara and Giratina that mirrors this, because I'm pretty sure we don't have one. Also, "It's too big"? Where is the Distortion World ever shown to be bigger than the size of a multiverse?"

If you could show me Undertale having undeniable evidence of having more than a few universes (honestly, they should be 2-C), because Resets being any more than that instead of creation of new universes being much more of a "fan theory", I'd take this with more of a grain of salt. But until you can, yes, the difference between the two is indeed astronomical.
 
If Giratina has never done this though, why are you assuming it can do so to such a degree that it actually matters, here?

It would need to beat Chara down hard enough to actually incapacitate them (since Giratina can't actually kill them), and I have no idea what that would actually take.

If Giratina has no examples of this, then we have no frame of reference, either.

That's kind of the point.
 
I edited my comment after you posted and I didn't see this. I'll respond still.

On a related note, why are you assuming that Chara is even non-corporeal when the child has a grand total of zero feats of being even as untouchable as a Gastly?
 
My dude they're a soulless spirit who spends most of the route inhabiting another character's body, and when you make a deal with them, they quite clearly don't have any body.

Though I don't think Giratina hitting non-corporeals should be any sort of problem when he himself is a ghost type, for starters. It's more that he has no way to put said non-corporeal down.
 
@Edward.

The real cal howard said:
Firstly, keep in mind that I still don't buy that Chara's an idea, and I didn't respond because I simply got lazy. Secondly, it's remiss to assume that they can't hit each other at all in their true forms. Chara's profile in general takes bigger leaps in logic than this.
Click to expand...
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
My dude they're a soulless spirit who spends most of the route inhabiting another character's body, and when you make a deal with them, they quite clearly don't have any body.

Though I don't think Giratina hitting non-corporeals should be any sort of problem when he himself is a ghost type, for starters. It's more that he has no way to put said non-corporeal down.
Click to expand...
Still not as non-corporeal as Gastly as not only is Gastly a ghost, but it's a ghost made out of an already intangible substance

Even in the best case scenario, Chara'd have to resort to resets like against Sans, and Giratina's acausality negs that.
 
The real cal howard said:
If you could show me Undertale having undeniable evidence of having more than a few universes (honestly, they should be 2-C), because Resets being any more than that instead of creation of new universes being much more of a "fan theory", I'd take this with more of a grain of salt. But until you can, yes, the difference between the two is indeed astronomical.
Click to expand...
Bruh I don't think you want to take this down the path of "show me explicit evidence of _____" with Pokemon.
 
The real cal howard said:
Even in the best case scenario, Chara'd have to resort to resets like against Sans, and Giratina's acausality negs that.
Click to expand...
"resort to resets"

Why? Giratina isn't killing them (and Sans never really killed anything but the body they were inhabiting and the SOUL they were hijacking).

Also, how does Giratina's acausality negate the part of the resets that don't affect Giratina?
 
Trying to end this fast so that Azzy can comment on the other thread

Chara can't kill Giratina via AP advantage. Giratina can't kill Chara due to being an idea. Cal, link the AP blog for AP here and Azzy will post whatever proof Chara is an idea.
 
But we're both already familiar with that?

Then, honestly, what is being discussed here? If Giratina can hit ideas? Can't Giratina fight Dialga and Palkia which are the embodiments of the concepts of space and time?
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Then, honestly, what is being discussed here? If Giratina can hit ideas? Can't Giratina fight Dialga and Palkia which are the embodiments of the concepts of space and time?
Click to expand...
How Giratina hitting something he can't kill over and over again without knowing if any of this actually does anything to help him incapacitate his foe is somehow a win and not inconclusive at best.
 
"without knowing if any of this actually does anything to help him incapacitate"

He doesn't have any means of incap (aside from BFR, which is sorta counted as a separate thing). That's the point.
 
For one, Giratina kills the soul, so that kinda takes The Anomaly out of the equation.

Two, pretty sure Giratina eventually getting bored and making it so its aura just erases Chara repeatedly and Chara reforming just to get erased again counts as a wincon.
 
Pretty sure Giratina has never done that (that one I actually can't remember, so maybe he ******' did. idk). Also, how does it take the Anomaly out of the equation when even Frisk's SOUL can just undo its own destruction?
 
Dialga and Palkia both can individually do that, so it's probably a Creation Trio thing rather than Giratina being excluded from that.

Because Frisk=/=Anomaly, as the latter isn't even technically a part of the UT-verse, being well...us.

...something tells me that was a bit hypocritical
 
Pretty sure that wasn't just completely immediate erasure though, unless you're not talking about the same movie I'm thinking of. I also have doubts about it working on an acausal, nonexistent being who exists beyond their own reality already when the things it affected were part of space-time.

Frisk isn't the Anomaly, but Chara also sorta hijacked and fed on Frisk throughout the whole route, so (and I suppose they also technically are Frisk post-genocide run).
 
>Nonexistent being

No. Chara ain't a Dark Area Digimon.

Anyway, Frisk would need to have max determination in order to survive getting his existence erased, and even then, it wears down over time.

Though, that kinda brings up a point. Giratina kills Chara enough times that the latter loses determination. Mid-Godly is reliant on that after all. That was the point with Sans and Giratina's gonna be killing Chara a lot more than Sans was.
 
">Nonexistent being

No."

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?

Your SOUL is the very culmination of your being. Chara's SOUL was absorbed by Asriel and then destroyed. Chara doesn't have their body. So what are they? They aren't Chara as they were in life, and clearly don't exist by conventional means. They lack both physical form and metaphysical SOUL. "No" isn't a proper counter to this.

"Frisk would need to have max determination in order to survive getting his existence erased, and even then, it wears down over time."

It's a good thing we're talking about Chara then, who both has Frisk's Determination and better regen that Giratina hasn't shown to be able to bypass.

"Though, that kinda brings up a point. Giratina kills Chara enough times that the latter loses determination."

Contradicted by the game itself (notably the Sans fight you mentioned), and the fact that Chara doesn't have the same personality as Frisk. Also you haven't explained how Giratina negates the regen, or how he prevents Chara from just resetting even if it doesn't affect him.
 
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