Changing Top 15 Strongest Characters (Poll)

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This thread was created in relation to the "Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier" discussion.

Currently, to be considered for the list, a character's Tier, Attack Potency (AP), and Striking Strength must be equivalent, with Durability either matching these statistics or exceeding them.

However, I believe this approach limits the list, as it does not truly reflect the Top 15 Strongest per Tier but rather a subset of characters. This excludes characters who may possess Tier 2 abilities, such as Reality Warping, yet have ordinary human physiques, leading to their AP surpassing their Durability and other statistics. From my point of view, this makes the whole list a lot less dynamic, as battles between characters of the same tier but with different stats could definitely be more interesting.

So, the poll below will determine whether anything should happen. It will last a week, and once that period is over, based on the number of votes @Setsuna_tenma will either change things or leave things be.

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Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier - StrawPoll.com

What is your opinion? Vote now: Maintain the current criteria, where a character's Tier/AP and Striking Strength must be equal, and their Durability must match or exceed them to be i

strawpoll.com

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think the tier based idea just makes more sense for what the thread is.
Although, in theory, nothing stops us from doing both. Aside that experience wise only one of the two would ultimately get attention.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean if someone is willing to do it I have no issues with that. There's already a bunch of Top 15 Variants.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Bruh

 

[XDragnoir]

What is the difference between a being with Smurf Hax, because that's just how their verse works, versus a being who has High Tier Gear?

First and foremost, smurf hax and really just hax in general often doesn't go in the Tier/AP section to begin with given it's hax, not an energy release that effectively could have a tier, this mostly changes only when hax gets to L2C or higher levels of reality warping (since at this level the line between AP and hax starts to disappear).

And again, I quoted the rule itself which already give a full explanation on why one case was accepted while the other "wasn't", but let me quote it again:

"Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology."

If their L2C magic can make them physically L2C, in both AP and Dura... like, just have Goku as an example, it's not exactly magic but whatever

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I always thought it should just be your AP that qualifies you for one of the tiers.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

First and foremost, smurf hax and really just hax in general often doesn't go in the Tier/AP section to begin with given it's hax, not an energy release that effectively could have a tier, this mostly changes only when hax gets to L2C or higher levels of reality warping (since at this level the line between AP and hax starts to disappear).

But it's the same result either way, is it not? If someone who is 9-B has a Low 2-C Person Annihilator Weapon, they would win a 9-B Spot. If someone who is 9-B has Low 2-C Smurf Existence Erasure Hax they would get a 9-B Spot.

Likewise, if the 9-B person with a Low 2-C Weapon tried to go into the Low 2-C Top 15, they would get obliterated by 1-A or even High 1-A Smurfs with their super Hax.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

The point of the matter is, that it's arbitrary to decide who gets to go into a Top 15 or not, based on how they get a Tier. Because at that point it's no longer about who is the Top 15 Strongest, it's who is the Top 15 Strongest in a way I think is acceptable/honorable.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Going by physicals also sometimes just disqualifies characters for really weird reasons.
The primary example is how an incorporeal entity is basically disqualified from being on the list, because it has no such thing as physical stats.
A 7-A ghost that has no SS or dura should just be in 7-A.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The poll misrepresents the current rules, and I know for a fact my changes I'd make would be taken to the other extreme, so I will not be voting at all

 

[DaReaperMan]

If you really want to know my changes, here's my example.

Khatep.

currently, hes 9-B exclusive, however the change I'd make would let him qualify for High 6-C and High 6-B

"To qualify for a tier a character must, in some way, have two of three statistics in the tier, represented as Attack Potency, Striking Strength, and Durability. for instance, Ainz Ooal Gown would qualify for both 9-A and Low 7-C, as he has has Attack Potency and Striking Strength for 9-A and Attack Potency and Durability for Low 7-C."

Notice how Ainz qualifies for Low 7-C, his magic is in that tier for AP, and his dura is that tier, so he's got 2 of 3 stats in it. Same applies to Khatep in High 6-C and High 6-B, he has both magic and barriers in those tiers, so he qualifies.

However, if you only have one stat in the tier, like Deathmaster Snikch, you do not qualify for it.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

My opinion is that their attack potency should match their durability. Their striking strength is irrelevant, so is how they qualify for their durability rating.

 

[XDragnoir]

Going by physicals also sometimes just disqualifies characters for really weird reasons.
The primary example is how an incorporeal entity is basically disqualified from being on the list, because it has no such thing as physical stats.
A 7-A ghost that has no SS or dura should just be in 7-A.

How is that ghost 7A if he has no physicals to begin with? He would ultimately be Unknown and qualify for that tier since 7A is everything minus his actual tier, from what you said.

Like, most verses with people who in theory shouldn't have physicals have someone who can interact with them and end up having physical stats (just search for any NEP 1 or 2 character, it shouldn't be hard to find some examples).

But it's the same result either way, is it not? If someone who is 9-B has a Low 2-C Person Annihilator Weapon, they would win a 9-B Spot. If someone who is 9-B has Low 2-C Smurf Existence Erasure Hax they would get a 9-B Spot.

Likewise, if the 9-B person with a Low 2-C Weapon tried to go into the Low 2-C Top 15, they would get obliterated by 1-A or even High 1-A Smurfs with their super Hax.

What? It's not the same result at all, not what you're proposing and what is currently accepted.

I also don't get your examples? Isn't your entire point that the 9B would get a spot in both 9B and L2C? Now you're saying the 9B would only get a spot in 9B?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What? It's not the same result at all, not what you're proposing and what is currently accepted.

I also don't get your examples? Isn't your entire point that the 9B would get a spot in both 9B and L2C? Now you're saying the 9B would only get a spot in 9B?

My point is this: On a Top 15 Speed List, the fastest character wouldn’t need to meet benchmarks in other statistics. The same principle applies to a Top 15 Lifting Strength List. If we’re going to have a Top 15 Tier List, the only criteria should be the Tiers themselves. Otherwise, it would be more appropriate to create a Top AP, Durability, and SS List, since those are the physical stats we seem to be focusing on rather than the actual Tiering.

For a Top 15 Tier List to stay true to its purpose, the Tier should be the only factor that truly matters. Once a character meets the Tier’s benchmark, their ranking should be determined like any other matchup. Introducing physical criteria into a Tier List is separate from its purpose, and just unnecessary. Who cares how a Character wins their place in a Tier List, the method shouldn't skew the results.

 

[XDragnoir]

My point is this: On a Top 15 Speed List, the fastest character wouldn’t need to meet benchmarks in other statistics. The same principle applies to a Top 15 Lifting Strength List. If we’re going to have a Top 15 Tier List, the only criteria should be the Tiers themselves. Otherwise, it would be more appropriate to create a Top AP, Durability, and SS List, since those are the physical stats we seem to be focusing on rather than the actual Tiering.

Two different types of lists, there's a great difference between a list that aims at finding the fastest characters (thus not even needing matches or anything, it's just a matter of comparing stats and calcs) which strength wise would be our Highest AP for every tier threads.

The Top Strongest isn't measuring any stat, it simply has basic pre-requisites for someone to be a contender.

For a Top 15 Tier List to stay true to its purpose, the Tier should be the only factor that truly matters. Once a character meets the Tier’s benchmark, their ranking should be determined like any other matchup. Introducing physical criteria into a Tier List is separate from its purpose, and just unnecessary. Who cares how a Character wins their place in a Tier List, the method shouldn't skew the results.

Ehhhh sure? I definitely don't think this is as important as you're making it sound, but whatever.

 

[DontTalkDT]

How is that ghost 7A if he has no physicals to begin with? He would ultimately be Unknown and qualify for that tier since 7A is everything minus his actual tier, from what you said.

He would fight at a 7-A level. Imagine the guy fights via telekinesis. Then he can oneshot below 7-A and do little to nothing above it. Sounds like a 7-A fighter to me.
Like, he is 7-A in the most direct way: By 7-A being the only tier he has.
Putting all incorporeal fighters without physicals into one category, regardless of whether they are Tier 1-A or 9-B, is just not rating them by which tier they actually fight in.

Similarly, a mage with 7-A attacks and 7-A magic shields, but tier 9-B physical stats that are entirely irrelevant to their fighting style and never come into play, is really more 7-A than 9-B. So I see no reason they shouldn't be allowed to participate.
Or take someone like Lucy. It's silly to keep her constrained to the physical tier, as it virtually never is relevant, as her vectors give her higher defense and attack.

 

[Livinmeme]

Put an option where the only stat that matters is SS, because dura doesn't determinate how "strong" someone is, in the conventional sense

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

My opinion is that their attack potency should match their durability. Their striking strength is irrelevant, so is how they qualify for their durability rating.

Ok, but what about glass cannons?

 

[XDragnoir]

Ok, but what about glass cannons?

Glass cannons usually have their SS and Durability at the same level (as SS scales directly to Dura with very few exceptions), so they're good to go in the current rules

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well, that's it then.