Changing the Versus Thread One-Shot Gap

[Agnaa]

Our page on One-Shots currently treats 7.5x as the gap required to one-shot someone through a blow to the torso, as this is the gap between 9-C and 10-B, something that should be considered a one-shot.

However, that's just incorrect. Ordinary humans punching at ordinary human speeds can get decently into 9-C (this is also established, albeit without a source, in our Superhuman Physical Characteristics page), but they can't one-shot ordinary people by striking their torso. They'd need to hit weak points to even knock someone out in one blow, let alone kill them.

Either we need to bump up this value significantly (50x, 150x, or 375x representing a jump to wall level), or mention that it's only a "one-shot" in that it can knock them out by hitting their head.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think raising the gap makes sense, or even striking a weak point doesn't really have much of a multiplier gap.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I think changing the one-shot multiplier to be more accurate makes sense

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Either we need to bump up this value significantly (50x, 150x, or 375x representing a jump to wall level), or mention that it's only a "one-shot" in that it can knock them out by hitting their head.

There are works in fiction have characters one shot others with only a 10x gap at most so are we assuming their 50x stronger?

 

[Agnaa]

There are works in fiction have characters one shot others with only a 10x gap at most so are we assuming their 50x stronger?

No, as the page already acknowledges with the 7.5x gap, different pieces of fiction have their own one-shot gaps. This is just for the purposes of our vs threads.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

No, as the page already acknowledges with the 7.5x gap, different pieces of fiction have their own one-shot gaps. This is just for the purposes of our vs threads.

But in our verses thread we have characters that are capable of one shoting a character with a specific calc which means where going to treat those characters as 50x more powerful than other characters in our verses threads?

 

[Agnaa]

But in our verses thread we have characters that are capable of one shoting a character with a specific calc which means where going to treat those characters as 50x more powerful than other characters in our verses threads?

No, this will not affect the ratings we will give to characters.

It's just the AP gap which needs to be reached from calcs/statements/multipliers before a character is considered able to one-shot in a vs thread.

 

[Propellus]

a 10x multiplier gap seems big enough to one shot

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I assume that speed required for speed blitzing doesn't need to be changed at all too?

 

[Agnaa]

Prop: That still doesn't work; the calc linked in the OP is about 18x above our average human ratings, and is able to be done by a real human, yet real humans cannot kill each other with punches to the torso.

Colonel: We don't have a set speed required for a Speed Blitz, as explained on that page.

 

[Greatsage13th]

This makes sense.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

No, this will not affect the ratings we will give to characters.

It's just the AP gap which needs to be reached from calcs/statements/multipliers before a character is considered able to one-shot in a vs thread.

Your missing the point...

In the vs match, the two characters will fight and both scale to a feat but combatant B can one shot characters who match combatant A. Using your knew rules, we'd be assuming combatant B is 50 times more powerful (in the verses match) since he's already one shot characters who are equal to combatant A but in verse character B only has an in verse multiplier of 5x difference

So are these characters one shot requirements going to change for vs matches? I'll make an example

Example: Character A is 100 tons of TNT. So the one shot requirements for our vs threads would be 50 times that using your new proposal.

Example 2: Character A is 100 tons of TNT. Character B one shots him but is stated to be only 5 times stronger.

So I ask, how does example 2 translate to our vs threads with your proposal when we know he isn't 50x stronger but only 5. Does the character lose their one shot scaling or do we assume for the sake of vs threads, Character B is now 50x stronger than character A because he's visually capable of one shotting characters equal to A for the sake of said match?

 

[KLOL506]

According to this link the average human can dish out roughly 135-150 joules so uh...

 

[Agnaa]

That is already an issue under our current standards with a 7.5x gap. It gets dealt with however it does now. Although idk how it is.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That is already an issue under our current standards with a 7.5x gap. It gets dealt with however it does now. Although idk how it is.

Then it is what it is I guess. If the gap is logically higher than so be it.

 

[Agnaa]

I have some ideas for how to deal with that sorta thing (deferring to the verse's standards if they demonstrate different one-shot values), but it sounds like a bit of a pain in the ass to deal with that may be best resolved somewhere else.

 

[KLOL506]

Welp. I got no horse in this race then.

 

[Agnaa]

According to this link the average human can dish out roughly 135-150 joules so uh...

This seems like more of a concern with the tier borders tbh, a bit outside of this thread's scope. And it estimates some peak athlete's punches as being in the ~1600 joules range; even if we change what we assume average humans and peak humans to be, the 7.5x multi would still be insufficient.

 

[Romeu08]

Our page on One-Shots currently treats 7.5x as the gap required to one-shot someone through a blow to the torso, as this is the gap between 9-C and 10-B, something that should be considered a one-shot.

However, that's just incorrect. Ordinary humans punching at ordinary human speeds can get decently into 9-C (this is also established, albeit without a source, in our Superhuman Physical Characteristics page), but they can't one-shot ordinary people by striking their torso. They'd need to hit weak points to even knock someone out in one blow, let alone kill them.

Either we need to bump up this value significantly (50x, 150x, or 375x representing a jump to wall level), or mention that it's only a "one-shot" in that it can knock them out by hitting their head.

A average person taking a punch like that would fold tho so i don't see the problem
Also the person you're using as a example is a "heavy" outlier in human Ke (pun intended) and he would absolutely fold a normal person with a single blow

 

[KLOL506]

This seems like more of a concern with the tier borders tbh, a bit outside of this thread's scope. And it estimates some peak athlete's punches as being in the ~1600 joules range;

Correction, 1600 joules is referring to Mike Tyson's punches. Only one man hit harder than him, Frank Bruno, at about 1420 ft-lbs or roughly 1925.3 J.

even if we change what we assume average humans and peak humans to be, the 7.5x multi would still be insufficient.

Shit.

 

[Agnaa]

A average person taking a punch like that would fold tho so i don't see the problem
Also the person you're using as a example is a "heavy" outlier in human Ke (pun intended) and he would absolutely fold a normal person with a single blow

That's just what my point is; someone would get heavily injured, but they wouldn't die from a single punch like that to the torso, which is how it's currently treated.

 

[DMUA]

or mention that it's only a "one-shot" in that it can knock them out by hitting their head.

Honestly just go with this

It's not like a normal person taking a punch from like, mike tyson is going to be fine just because it's a hit to the ribcage, so it still emphasizes an insurmountable gap but it's better to go with incapacitation to a target you'll often see people hitting for than just an instant kill at center mass

 

[KLOL506]

A average person taking a punch like that would fold tho so i don't see the problem
Also the person you're using as a example is a "heavy" outlier in human Ke (pun intended) and he would absolutely fold a normal person with a single blow

That's just what my point is; someone would get heavily injured, but they wouldn't die from a single punch like that to the torso, which is how it's currently treated.

Maybe they would get knocked out at best and receive massive internal bleeding at worst?

 

[Livinmeme]

A average person taking a punch like that would fold tho so i don't see the problem
Also the person you're using as a example is a "heavy" outlier in human Ke (pun intended) and he would absolutely fold a normal person with a single blow

That's just what my point is; someone would get heavily injured, but they wouldn't die from a single punch like that to the torso, which is how it's currently treated.

Outliers..... In real life
Did VS have gone to far and we have gone back to jungle spaceboard arguments?
You just don't do "outliers" in real life, if you get hit by a car you die no matter what unless you are special or that car was made out of paper, for example

 

[DMUA]

Outliers..... In real life
Did VS have gone to far and we have gone back to jungle spaceboard arguments?
You just "outliers" in real life, if you get hit by a car you die no matter what unless you are special or that car was made out of paper

An outlier is an actual term, look it up on the internet. Something that lies outside the normal trend for data, and people surviving things they logically shouldn't absolutely counts

 

[Livinmeme]

An outlier is an actual term, look it up on the internet. Something that lies outside the normal trend for data, and people surviving things they logically shouldn't absolutely counts

Why would we count this as an outlier? Not even counting how he hasn't sayed why is an outlier anyway

 

[Aachintya31]

Outliers..... In real life
Did VS have gone to far and we have gone back to jungle spaceboard arguments?
You just don't do "outliers" in real life, if you get hit by a car you die no matter what unless you are special or that car was made out of paper, for example

Lol.

 

[Agnaa]

That piece of wording is not relevant to this thread at all.

Please take it to someone's message wall instead of spending 5+ posts here talking about it.

 

[Livinmeme]

That piece of wording is not relevant to this thread at all.

Please take it to someone's message wall instead of spending 5+ posts here talking about it.

You can't just say that the entire point of an oration isn't important. But yes better not derail

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I feel like there are too many variables to slap an objective number on one shots. It depends on where you hit, and the endurance of said person getting hit. Characters of equal strength can knock each other out. Just look at this clip.

So I definitely think it's a more case by case thing.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I feel like there are too many variables to slap an objective number on one shots. It depends on where you hit, and the endurance of said person getting hit. Characters of equal strength can knock each other out. Just look at this clip.

So I definitely think it's a more case by case thing.

Yeah but a standard still needs to be placed.

 

[Agnaa]

Eh, we don't need a standard, we survived for years without one, but the current one does need to change.

 

[WrongIdea21]

This is okay, but some Verse have their own One shot thing, there is a verse that only require 1/5 of power diffrent to One shot their enemy and another verse need 5x gap to one shot his enemy.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Let's just attempt to apply real world physics and generalize a scenario.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To be fair, the requirement to oneshot someone or something has less to do either energy gap and more to do with how precise and well placed a strike is; it's possible to oneshot someone with more AP/Durability than you do via pressure points. Though some characters such as ghosts don't really have those. As for energy gaps, it depends on type of attack; 7.5x is not enough to oneshot someone via bodyslamming, but not so sure about like punching someone in the solar plexus.

 

[Agnaa]

To be fair, the requirement to oneshot someone or something has less to do either energy gap and more to do with how precise and well placed a strike is; it's possible to oneshot someone with more AP/Durability than you do via pressure points. Though some characters such as ghosts don't really have those. As for energy gaps, it depends on type of attack; 7.5x is not enough to oneshot someone via bodyslamming, but not so sure about like punching someone in the solar plexus.

My issue is that the current page says that 7.5x is enough to oneshot someone via a punch to their torso, which is not realistic.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Maybe give AP one shot multipliers for certain parts of the body.

 

[Greatsage13th]

For example it may take hundreds of thousands of times more force to fist through the chest than punching off a finger.

 

[Aachintya31]

Just look at this clip.

This is Damn True !!!
Why were you watching such a dead old 144p clip ?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

This is Damn True !!!
Why were you watching such a dead old 144p clip ?

I looked it up for the sake of this thread. Point is, there isn’t and shouldn’t be a number slapped onto one shots.