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What do the rest of you think about this?If we don't want to have arbitrary rating, I'd suggest just getting rid of the one shot page completely and use common sense to determine if something is a stomp.
Sometimes they actually are - that a 3X is really not a big AP gap in some cases, making the "use of common sense" harder and more subject to subjective points.Versus threads are not as moderated as CRTs (nor should they necessarily be), I don't think "use common sense" really works there, I've seen very silly arguments like "3x isn't a big AP gap" or "a 1.5x AP gap is basically an even fight" thrown around completely earnestly.
Yes it is wtfSometimes they actually are - that a 3X is really not a big AP gap in some cases
Then basically no fight is ever going to be considered "fair" if we were to enter this form of logic either way at all, rendering every single match to be pointlessVersus threads are not as moderated as CRTs (nor should they necessarily be), I don't think "use common sense" really works there, I've seen very silly arguments like "3x isn't a big AP gap" or "a 1.5x AP gap is basically an even fight" thrown around completely earnestly.
Believe me, I've seen enough school/real life events fights getting a good idea of how consistent people are able holding their own against people slightly stronger than him if not, stronger in general if you want to get technical depending on the kind of sport. Except, yours on the other hand doesn't seem to be this supportive enough to your own doubts for gaps this miniscule to be considered "one-shots". But if that's the way you just want to roll based on you simply not caring, then so be it, because I already know this is not going to go anywhere besides a whole series of "NO U" so I'll just stop right here.First off, no, either get an actually close AP matchup or get one where there's more wincons than raw strength. Second, I don't care. What do you suggest as an alternative, just pretending that isn't true because it's not fun?
You're right when you say "slightly stronger". I can't really say much about this specific case given it's anecdotal evidence with no detail but I would wager the strength difference between competitors of just about any IRL competition is like, 20% at most or something. Weight classes exist for this very reason, you just cannot have a fair fight between a heavyweight and even a middleweight, and that is operating off A: a smaller AP "gap" than what we have here, B: A non-simplified IRL durability system, where someone's durability isn't going to be 1 to 1 comparable to their AP, C: A set of rules that prevents the fight from turning into an all-out contest of strength. And even then when you don't have weight classes in play you get something like this where the stronger (much less skilled fighter) just kind of manhandles the weaker one (Granted neither is trying to hurt the other here but I feel like the result is pretty obvious).Believe me, I've seen enough school/real life events fights getting a good idea of how consistent people are able holding their own against people slightly stronger than him if not, stronger in general if you want to get technical depending on the kind of sport.
I'm sorry, are you sure you actually understand what something like a x5 gap is? You seem to be under the impression that is something you can see in fights IRL but it is closer to like, a very strong guy vs a gorilla.Except, yours on the other hand doesn't seem to be this supportive enough to your own doubts for gaps this miniscule to be considered "one-shots".
It is indeed the way I want to roll based on it not being an argument that's taking me in bad faith and relying on a bunch of poorly understood anecdotal evidence.But if that's the way you just want to roll based on you simply not caring, then so be it, because I already know this is not going to go anywhere besides a whole series of "NO U" so I'll just stop right here.
I think that is a good point. We may need to use 14x for practical, rather than realistic fighting conditions, reasons, due to that too many of our current matchups will have to be removed otherwise, which is not realistic for the continued maintenance of this community.In this case, I remain that a 14x gap would fit better to warrant an AP stomp - else a whole lot of matchups would be AP stomps and therefore the very need to reconsider the function of a versus debate thread.
If it is not done too often, it is probably fine.Am I allowed to bump Staff Threads as Non-Staff?
Fine with either 5x or 14x as per Armor's points above and the actual reasoning behind the two@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Migue79 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Dalesean027 @Aguywhodoesthings @DemiiPowa @Therefir Your input here would be appreciated.
I think that is a good point. We may need to use 14x for practical, rather than realistic fighting conditions, reasons, due to that too many of our current matchups will have to be removed otherwise, which is not realistic for the continued maintenance of this community.
I suppose that I am also fine with 14x in that case then.
I thought I said I was fine with 5x@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Migue79 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Dalesean027 @Aguywhodoesthings @DemiiPowa @Therefir Your input here would be appreciated.
Prolly must've missed it then.I thought I said I was fine with 5x
Well, given that it would be very hard to have any matchups at all with just a 5x matchup difference, I think that we need to use 14x for practical rather than realistic reasons, in lack of better options. Meaning that I do not support a 5x difference anymore.@Antvasima This is the current vote tally:
The current vote is 3-14-15 for 7.5X-5X-14X.
- Keep 7.5X: Mr._Bambu, Colonel_Krukov, Propellus, Armorchompy
- Change to 5X: Antvasima, DarkDragonMedeus, LordGriffin1000, Crabwhale, Emirp sumitpo, Lonkitt, KingTempest, Armorchompy, TheRustyOne, KLOL506, Psychomaster35, SeijiSetto, CloverDragon03, Dalesean027, AbaddonTheDisappointment, Dark-Carioca, Therefir
- Change to 14X: Antvasima, Mr._Bambu, Qawsedf234, DarkGrath, Elizhaa, LordGriffin1000, Maverick_Zero_X, Damage3245, Colonel_Krukov, FinePoint, DMUA, Psychomaster35, Jasonsith, Dalesean027, AbaddonTheDisappointment, Dark-Carioca
Bambu is twice on this ping list@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Damage3245 @TheRustyOne @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @KLOL506 @M3X_2.0 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Agnaa @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa @Flashlight237 @SeijiSetto
Yes. Sorry about that.Bambu is twice on this ping list
Well, they might change their minds to break the deadlock based on the very serious practical issue that I mentioned.I'd rather we tag people who haven't voted already, there's no need to tag the people who already voted prior.
what we set the gap to is entirely arbitraryWell, given that it would be very hard to have any matchups at all with just a 5x matchup difference, I think that we need to use 14x for practical rather than realistic reasons, in lack of better options. Meaning that I do not support a 5x difference anymore.
I don't recall the specifics of this thread but I don't think the 14x was made solely just so we could allow matches to happen. That was just a reason Ant is against 5x. As a whole, matches are made regardless of the number we set as mentioned so I don't believe it holds up as a solid reason.x14 is just completely irrational. If we're going to ignore realism then we might as well not have a one-shot gap at all, rather than one that's not at all reflective of how things would go down. I don't like it but if we're refusing to look at the facts we might as well be vague about it and say "yeah even a relatively small gap like x4 [random number] can lead ot a one-shot but various factors can play a role therefore we do not have a set in stone one-shot value".
It's dumb but it's better than willingly pretending that an incorrect value is correct just so that we can have vs matches happen. At the very least I demand acknowledgement, even if we do go with x14, that a much smaller gap than that can prove to be nearly insurmountable for the weaker foe and can lead to a one-shot, with 14x only being when AP stomps will basically 100% happen.
It wasn't, but arguments have been made against its validity and ignoring them for the sake of match viability rather than actual accuracy is not acceptable.I don't recall the specifics of this thread but I don't think the 14x was made solely just so we could allow matches to happen. That was just a reason Ant is against 5x. As a whole, matches are made regardless of the number we set as mentioned so I don't believe it holds up as a solid reason.
I feel some irony into this piece of the statement, considering that the people that are mostly interested in battleboarding has this same kind of amountWe are an indexing wiki first and foremost, match-ups are second fiddle. "Match-ups would become harder to make" is a terrible argument to make when most of our visitors come solely to check stats.
I technically agree, but I want our members who actually help us out to be able to have some fun here as well.We are an indexing wiki first and foremost, match-ups are second fiddle. "Match-ups would become harder to make" is a terrible argument to make when most of our visitors come solely to check stats.
"First means I missed it, second means no", perhaps?Bambu is twice on this ping list