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Because Asa is dumb. It was pointed out that weapon systems could never be that cheap, but Asa was naive enough to believe that she could buy it with her college funds.
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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
Zabazab
Any/All- 3,885
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The big CSM feats that remain uncalced so far, to my knowledge:
- Quanxi's 49-Person Massacre (Chapter 60) — Probably uncalcable, for now. The initial blitz is like subsonic, but there isn't really a way to calc her beheading all those Dolls. Gotta wait for the anime, maybe they'll do something crazy like having everything around her frozen while she runs.
- Gun Devil's Kinetic Energy (Chapters 75, 76) — We already have it's speed, so to get this we need to calc it's mass which... nobody really seems bothered to do, it does look time-consuming after all. Offsite calcs of it's mass would put the 20% mass at around City level, and the 100% mass at around Mountain level.
- Pochita Jumps, Destroying A Roof (Chapter 87) — When faced with 7 Weapon-Humans attacking him at once, Pochita jumps off of the building he was on before kicking Quanxi and Miri through some flats. This leap completely obliterated the roof he was on, probably around Class M.
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Well the Gun Devil is mainly made up of bones, flesh, and whatever guns are made out of. Those materials could probably be used.
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There is only 2 people who currently have knowledge on the series who would be able to calc it so Ill just ask them
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The verse already has a calculation for this. All you would have to do to find the force of it would be to apply the joule value of the feat to the work formula which is (Force (N) * s (Displacement) = Work (Joules)). Retrofitting the equation so that we could find newtons would just be (Work/Displacement = Newtons of force). All you would have to do would be to find the displacement of the Chainsaw Devil's initial jump. Though I don't know if this type of thing is allowed for lifting strength calculations.
Zabazab
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I am not talking about Pochita's 8-A destruction feat.
I am talking about Pochita's initial leap that destroyed the building he was standing on.
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Your trying to find the LS correct? If so converting his found energy in joules through the work formula would yield his LS. Lets say he had a displacement/movement of 1 meter when he initially jumped (It's likely smaller than this). Using the modified work formula shown in my earlier post we get ( 1.6919343e+12 Joules / 1 meter = 1.6919343e+12 Newtons) which I believe is Class G in terms of lifting strength. Though once again I'm not sure if this method is allowed to be used to find lifting strength.
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If someone performs a feat with a known energy output from a jump, you can in fact work backwards to get the force applied.
For jumps I think our go-to distance is 1/3 of the character's height. I remember calcing Pochita's height but I don't remember the exact value - assuming he's ~8ft tall, 1/3 of that is 0.8128 metres.
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I am here to ruin fun.
While the idea is right, you used the joules obtained from his kicking of blud through like 5 skyscrapers if I'm not mistaken?
That is not the energy of his leap that obliterated the rooftop.
Two different actions, the latter of which, the kick, can't be used to obtain LS, and even if it could you'd need the kick arc or whatever he did instead. Only the former actual leap can be used for LS.
You would need to calc the rooftop destruction separately, unfortunately
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That doesnt seem to be the case based on the panels. It seems he did a jump kick forward and impaled Quanxi mid-air, then traveled with her through the buildings. That would mean all the building busting energy came from his initial jump kick. Though if you want to say it was a jump, followed by a kick, that sent them both through the buildings, I don't see how that would generate more momentum for both Quanxi and the Chainsaw Devil instead of knocking Quanxi away. The act of kicking her in mid-air would impart some level of opposing force on the Chainsaw Devil reducing the total kinetic energy instead of increasing it. The one panel we do see of the flight shows no indication the Chainsaw Devil grabbed Quanxi after kicking through her in order to maintain the added momentum of the kick. So since we dont see Quanxi fly off of the Chainsaw Devils leg, and we don't see any attempt nor indication from the Chainsaw Devil to grab Quanxi after a hypothetical kick; Would mean the energy must have come from the initial jump.
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Maybe? Though the destruction of the rooftop being utterly incomparable to the following string of impacts is a bit of a red flag, the roof top should be exponentially more ****** up, not 1000x less.
Though looking over the scene, the bigger concern is, how do we even know he jumped? The motion is important here given something as simple as "he kicked off" the rooftop instead of actual bending of the legs while firmly planted on the ground in order to propel himself, would completely void the feat, and honestly, I feel like that's a possibility here if we go with the flying kick angle?
Baken384
He/Him- 3,615
- 3,758
Aint no way...
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I wouldn't say that's a red flag. Fiction tends to ignore recoil damage from jumps a lot of the time and it not being more damaged doesn't really conclusively prove he didn't produce that much force. We had a similar thing happen with Asa in a recent chapter where she jumped hard enough to leave a large hole in a building yet not a scratch was left on the floor; numerous other similar scenes like this also happen in both this manga and others. In fact, since Fuji actually took the time to show the recoil damage from just a push-off instead of ignoring it entirely makes it seem that the intent was to show how hard he was pushing off in order to bust through all those buildings.
Why would kicking off of an object invalidate it from being LS? He's still producing that much force without the use of speed or kinetic energy. Is that not an application of "Lifting" or is that not allowed here? Fujimoto is a big fan of quick transition panels that don't show the in-between so it's really up to interpretation, however it does seem to point to a jump kick like mentioned earlier. Though like I said before, I don't see how that wouldn't be LS.
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Then you unironically shouldnt be trying to calc it? Like a little discrepancy is understandable, but if your argument is "they ignore it so oh well", then trying to calc the thing that's being ignored is just dishonest.
Literal magnitudes apart without an excuse like ki control or something. In a vacuum, it quite literally does, the initial jump should have far more collateral as opposed to the follow-up when energy would have already begun to be expended, I'm not gonna bust your ass over this but it is a tad sus.
Multiple wrongs don't make a right, especially given the inherent vagueness of this particular feat, for all we know bro could've done a backflip and punched off the ground. Obviously, Occam's razor would imply what he did was more straightforward, but you can see the issue yes?
The Asa feat could be calced though if we know it's an actual jump.
That only matters if the motion qualifies.
Same reason kicking anything isnt treated as LS? Striking strength.
"While Striking Strength measures the energy of a character's physical attacks, Lifting Strength measures the amount of mass they can lift, which is determined by the amount of force a character can produce. This means that they measure two different physical quantities. Furthermore it can't be assumed that a character that can physically produce the amount of energy used in lifting an object by a certain height can also lift it, if it didn't demonstrate the ability to produce that level of Lifting Strength. It is a common feature within fiction to feature characters capable of vastly greater physical striking strength energy outputs than what would be required to lift weights that they are repeatedly shown to struggle with.Hence Lifting Strength and Striking Strength are in general not comparable and should be evaluated separately."
Not true? If he, says, lifts his leg, kicks the ground, and launches himself that way, that's striking strength, not lifting strength. How he does it unironically matters.
We treat stuff like that as striking strength, exceptions exist, like say, a dude throws a kick with a weight attached, like DBZ training weight, you can get LS that way as there'd be extra weight that's being accelerated.
But just punching or kicking and producing large amounts of force? Nah we don't do that, it's why lifting strength is its own category and the page even mentions the discrepancy in how we do things, which is why every planet lv dude isn't Class Y for being able to punch a dude into a planet or some shit or a dude class T for kicking someone through an island.
Exactly, at best, I can see a possibility, he could have, like 50/50, I'd be ok with a possibly rating imo based on this calc.
It being a "jump" kick, I agree on, I checked the ch, and it checks out.
Literally just how we do things.
To give you a visualization of what I mean.
Good.
Bad.
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Could the initial kick be calced?Then you unironically shouldnt be trying to calc it? Like a little discrepancy is understandable, but if your argument is "they ignore it so oh well", then trying to calc the thing that's being ignored is just dishonest.
Literal magnitudes apart without an excuse like ki control or something. In a vacuum, it quite literally does, the initial jump should have far more collateral as opposed to the follow-up when energy would have already begun to be expended, I'm not gonna bust your ass over this but it is a tad sus.
Multiple wrongs don't make a right, especially given the inherent vagueness of this particular feat, for all we know bro could've done a backflip and punched off the ground. Obviously, Occam's razor would imply what he did was more straightforward, but you can see the issue yes?
The Asa feat could be calced though if we know it's an actual jump.
That only matters if the motion qualifies.
Same reason kicking anything isnt treated as LS? Striking strength.
"While Striking Strength measures the energy of a character's physical attacks, Lifting Strength measures the amount of mass they can lift, which is determined by the amount of force a character can produce. This means that they measure two different physical quantities. Furthermore it can't be assumed that a character that can physically produce the amount of energy used in lifting an object by a certain height can also lift it, if it didn't demonstrate the ability to produce that level of Lifting Strength. It is a common feature within fiction to feature characters capable of vastly greater physical striking strength energy outputs than what would be required to lift weights that they are repeatedly shown to struggle with.Hence Lifting Strength and Striking Strength are in general not comparable and should be evaluated separately."
Not true? If he, says, lifts his leg, kicks the ground, and launches himself that way, that's striking strength, not lifting strength. How he does it unironically matters.
We treat stuff like that as striking strength, exceptions exist, like say, a dude throws a kick with a weight attached, like DBZ training weight, you can get LS that way as there'd be extra weight that's being accelerated.
But just punching or kicking and producing large amounts of force? Nah we don't do that, it's why lifting strength is its own category and the page even mentions the discrepancy in how we do things, which is why every planet lv dude isn't Class Y for being able to punch a dude into a planet or some shit or a dude class T for kicking someone through an island.
Exactly, at best, I can see a possibility, he could have, like 50/50, I'd be ok with a possibly rating imo based on this calc.
It being a "jump" kick, I agree on, I checked the ch, and it checks out.
Literally just how we do things.
To give you a visualization of what I mean.
Good.
Bad.
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That's not even what I'm trying to calculate. That would be the buildings being busted as a result of that jump and it's resulting force in newtons using the work formula.
Good, because this line of thinking could apply to any number of things in this manga and countless other mediums as a reason to deny actual valid feats. It's far too common in fiction to be a deal breaker. In extreme cases maybe, but this is far from an extreme case.
I do, but as you said Occam's razor allows us to infer what happened. A similar argument could be said for just about any manga panel that doesn't break down every action in-between panels showing any type of movement. Take this panel right here showing Aki moving from one spot to another. Sure he could have hopped over, skipped, cartwheeled, or did any number of other movements in order to get to his second running position, but the go-to assumption would be that he ran based on his movement on the second panel, his dialogue, and normal common sense. The same can be said of the roof kick; Just because we don't see the jump doesn't mean we can't infer from the evidence given that a jump/kickoff is the most likely option as to how he caved in a roof behind him and traveled with Quanxi in the opposite direction with his leg through her. When comic/manga artists do this, it's usually because the motion is simple enough to be assumed between panels.
It's a similar situation to this where they just show the before and after of the scene and we are left to infer what happens.
I was actually referring to the top gif when I said kick-off though I suppose I could have worded it better, this is what I was intending to reference (Minus the running start and more straight than sideways).That only matters if the motion qualifies.
Same reason kicking anything isnt treated as LS? Striking strength.
"While Striking Strength measures the energy of a character's physical attacks, Lifting Strength measures the amount of mass they can lift, which is determined by the amount of force a character can produce. This means that they measure two different physical quantities. Furthermore it can't be assumed that a character that can physically produce the amount of energy used in lifting an object by a certain height can also lift it, if it didn't demonstrate the ability to produce that level of Lifting Strength. It is a common feature within fiction to feature characters capable of vastly greater physical striking strength energy outputs than what would be required to lift weights that they are repeatedly shown to struggle with.Hence Lifting Strength and Striking Strength are in general not comparable and should be evaluated separately."
Not true? If he, says, lifts his leg, kicks the ground, and launches himself that way, that's striking strength, not lifting strength. How he does it unironically matters.
We treat stuff like that as striking strength, exceptions exist, like say, a dude throws a kick with a weight attached, like DBZ training weight, you can get LS that way as there'd be extra weight that's being accelerated.
But just punching or kicking and producing large amounts of force? Nah we don't do that, it's why lifting strength is its own category and the page even mentions the discrepancy in how we do things, which is why every planet lv dude isn't Class Y for being able to punch a dude into a planet or some shit or a dude class T for kicking someone through an island.
Exactly, at best, I can see a possibility, he could have, like 50/50, I'd be ok with a possibly rating imo based on this calc.
It being a "jump" kick, I agree on, I checked the ch, and it checks out.
Literally just how we do things.
To give you a visualization of what I mean.
Good.
Bad.
In regards to the feat itself if we take it as valid, which in my opinion we should, how exactly would we go about finding the movement? I'm all for using a lowball such as that one meter value I mentioned earlier. Or if you would try your hand at calculating the feat using a different method than discussed that would also be appreciated. In regards to the validity of it, I am not opposed to a compromise, though I do feel we should get some other calc members opinions first. Should they say the same thing you said, I believe the feat should at least receive a "Likely" rating. Since the only "inconclusive" thing about the feat is the exact method of the initial action, which has decently conclusive evidence that it was some sort of jump. What do you say?
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Then why even bring it up? Though this is just semantics, both are the destruction resulting from the same action.
Hate to break it to you, but we already apply that line of thinking to most calcs and feats, most notably KE feats, we straight up don't accept them if the collateral is too far off the calculated value. You can't just whip out a number disproportionately larger than the actual effects, at least not to an unreasonable degree.
Yeah, he jumped, but how did he jump? Like it or not, it matters, and we don't see it.
You're right, and they should be scrutinized just the same?
Idk why you think multiple wrongs make a right. Though, usually it ultimately doesn't make a difference, dude attacked, building blew up, the exact angle or arm motion usually doesn't matter, this is just a odd case of the exact action he did making or breaking the feat as a whole.
False equivalence, especially given the the fact that CSM isn't just going from Point A to Point B, he's launching a mf through 5 buildings while obliterfucking a rooftop, all we know, is that he propelled himself somehow based on how he was standing, proceeded to be air-borne, and a leg impaled throug Quanxi. Presumably with his leg, that is it. Did he kick off? Did he bend down and leap? In most cases this wouldn't matter, but being overtly anal and extrapolating manga to get funny number, kinda calls for this.
Normally I'd say wait for the anime to see what they show, but this is a case of the motion not being shown, not because of medium, but because he's nothing personalin' them.
A kickoff would invalidate it being LS, which is what I'm saying, and why it's only a possibly imo, yeah it could be a jump, or he couldve kicked-off, both are likely options, we do not see it, so we can not say which actually occurred, only that he likely used his legs to launch himself, and from there presume.
Yeah, it can be inferred he used his legs to propel himself, unfortunately, the exact motion can validate or invalidate the whole calc. Which, unfortunately once again, needs to be accounted for.
Do we at least see knee-bending or bending, because you don't bend knees when kicking off 99% of the time
I know what you were referring to, and I'm saying both types of movement, among others, are likely here, only some qualify for LS.
In order to take it as 100%, you would need to prove, 100%, he jumped as per standards.
In such a case, we'd just assume 1/3rd Pochita's height given standard jumping shit as Seiji explained already.
I wouldn't call that a lowball, I'd call it the literal average given his huge height.
Oh no, the formula and idea is right, I'm just saying we do not see how he propelled himself, and this is quite literally the most important part of a jumping LS feat.
Others should weigh in, but I still feel that possibly is the best option given it's quite literally just "idk I feel like he couldve jumped this specific way", which then leads to his best feat bar none by like a 1000x over, while already discounting any other possible options he did in that timeframe given we see seconds later he blitzes them so bad he can do numerous complex actions before they even notice him. I'm not saying it didn't happen the way you present, I'm just saying it's like a 50/50,
"Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.".
I'm ok with the feat and calc, just as a possibly.
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I made the calculation using Seji's suggested method. Is this good enough to be used if it is accepted? If so can I a post on the calculation discussion section discussion whether it should be a full value or not?
vsbattles.fandom.com
The Chainsaw Devil Jumps Hard
vsbattles.fandom.com
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In retrospect I really don't want to spend a large amount of time defending my point only for it likely to not get accepted as a full value. Chariot you expressed that you would be okay with the rating if it was rated "possibly" correct? If so, could you give your approval on the calculation so I could go ahead and make the CRT related to the upgrade?
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What is Pochita's height, I know we said 8ft, but I'm pretty sure that was a "yo he's tall af" and not an actual canon height.
Even a 1ft diff can affect the calc by like 30%, so check if we got an actual height for him.
Even a 1ft diff can affect the calc by like 30%, so check if we got an actual height for him.
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If Pochita is 8 feet tall then my name is Yao Ming.
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Here are some height shots that could maybe be used to find his height.
Here are some relevant characters heights
Here are some relevant characters heights
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Isn't there a shot of him standing right behind the Katana Devil? That might be best.
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It doesn't show either characters full body.
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idk exactly where but there's some panels where he absolutely TOWERS over kobeni a little prior to this whole thing happening
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Yuki Tsukumo VS. The Falling Devil
Former Star Plasma Vessel (Jujutsu Kaisen) VS. The Falling Devil (Chainsaw Man) The Falling Devil Upscales to 5.8 Kilotons of TNT Yuki Upscales from 1.72 Kilotons of TNT & scales to 130.80 Yottatons with her Black Hole Speed is equalized Time: Day Location: Central Park, New York City (Humans...
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I remade Quanxi's profile again
vsbattles.fandom.com
GunshyFever/Quanxi
vsbattles.fandom.com
Hiiilt
Any/All- 735
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looks good, would her barrage of arrows be considered danmaku?I remade Quanxi's profile again
GunshyFever/Quanxi
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Not really, there is nothing really suggesting that but instead it would just mean she has incredibly precise aim
Giannysmag
He/Him- 4,273
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So I've been thinking, wouldn't Quanxi's Hypersonic feat fall under the Hybrids speed boosting power, thus not scaling to her combat speed or any other character?
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I don't think there is much indicating that its a speed boost but just rather her travel and combat speed since she's mainly depicted to be extremely fast
Giannysmag
He/Him- 4,273
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Idk the whole set up of the blitz feels too similar to KatanaMan's to just be a coincidence
Zabazab
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I remade Quanxi's profile again
GunshyFever/Quanxi
Reword this as something like "Yoshida admits that a direct hit from her would kill him, calling her strength inhuman."
Justifications that start with "Is able–" should start with "She is able–".
The note for the speed value uses a number without any units, i.e "Speed = 6.02". I believe it should be preceeded by "Mach".
I edited your speed justification to correct typos & weird grammar.
Zabazab
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Absolutely not. Not only was she untransformed, she is just doing it all the time in combat, especially in Part 2.
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All fixed
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Speaking of CSM profiles, I fixed all my other ones to look far more neat
You can still find them here; https://vsbattles.com/threads/chainsaw-man-ap-speed-ls-and-profile-revision.164544/
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Would you be willing to find the height with one of the shots provided?
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