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Doesn't need to be bumped until 24 hours have passed.bump
Majority of staff have agreed with the proposal.
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Doesn't need to be bumped until 24 hours have passed.bump
We can't extrapolate a multiplier from this, so it wouldn't affect other scaling.Wouldn’t this affect how we scale characters in general vs charged ki attacks, like the moment they’re just un damaged by them ( such in the case of piccolos light grenade vs imperfect cell) they should be assumed to be tens to dozens of times stronger than the character launching them as far as physicals are concerned and then their charged attacks being assumed to be just as much as an amp over base stats and so on and so forth.
Err no, even if we ignore power levels you still end up with scaling proving at least 2x increase over most basic attacks such in the case of KHH VS raditz where he had to put up a measure of effort when he was mostly unphased by both piccolo and Gokus physicals combined, or Freezas death beam actually drawing blood from SSJ Goku who at the time is ~ 2.5x stronger than his 50%.We can't extrapolate a multiplier from this, so it wouldn't affect other scaling.
Nah, above buff cell, which would still be 4-B, just a little over 10x lower than what they are nowSo, assume this is accepted SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell gonna up scale from SSJ Gohan and Perfect Cell at best, which is....uh......High 4-C with 4-B Kamehameha then
We don't know if it was 2x times stronger, we know that it had 2x power level, but aince power levels are non linear, we don't know how much that isErr no, even if we ignore power levels you still end up with scaling proving at least 2x increase over most basic attacks such in the case of KHH VS raditz where he had to put up a measure of effort when he was mostly unphased by both piccolo and Gokus physicals combined, or Freezas death beam actually drawing blood from SSJ Goku who at the time is ~ 2.5x stronger than his 50%.
How we know it is even x10, the Solar Kamehameha could well be x20 or even x50, or just x3......Nah, above buff cell, which would still be 4-B, just a little over 10x lower than what they are now
I was talking about revived cell, not the kamehamehaHow we know it is even x10, the Solar Kamehameha could well be x20 or even x50, or just x3......
I mean, isn't you said they x10 lower from unscaled the Solar Kamehameha??I was talking about revived cell, not the kamehameha
SSJ scaling is linear and so is Freezas percentages of power, also this isn’t powerlevel related, if we accept that charged ki attacks scales above AP then the basic logic is that if two characters going at raditz hth can’t hurt him but the KHH and SBC can manage to inflict damage or even make him put effort then those techniques at bare minimum scale 2x above physical stats, so whenever a character is just tanking those techniques or punching them out their physical AP is at least 2x the base physical stats.We don't know if it was 2x times stronger, we know that it had 2x power level, but aince power levels are non linear, we don't know how much that is
which are negated by goku's pl in the begining of the series being 10, which if you divide linearly by freeza saga goku's pl will make it so that goku could dedtroy planets since chapter 1 of the seriesSSJ scaling is linear and so is Freezas percentages of power
It is, you are using power levels to make a multiplieralso this isn’t powerlevel related.
Yeah, due to them scaling 10x above the current high 4-C valueI mean, isn't you said they x10 lower from unscaled the Solar Kamehameha??
It's due to kaioken scaling and direct statements refering to the 50 times multiplierIt is, you are using power levels to make a multiplier
Because.It's due to kaioken scaling and direct statements refering to the 50 times multiplier
SSJ Goku > 100% Frieza = 2 * 50% Frieza > KK20 Goku = 20 * Base Goku
Power levels got nothing to do with these multiplier
Good to know, thank youIt's due to kaioken scaling and direct statements refering to the 50 times multiplier
SSJ Goku > 100% Frieza = 2 * 50% Frieza > KK20 Goku = 20 * Base Goku
Power levels got nothing to do with these multiplier
which are negated by goku's pl in the begining of the series being 10, which if you divide linearly by freeza saga goku's pl will make it so that goku could dedtroy planets since chapter 1 of the series
It is, you are using power levels to make a multiplier
It's not even a real downgrade tbh since Cell's Kamehameha is still just as strong as it was before. The only "downgrade" here is removing the assumption that his other stats normally scales fully to it. It's adding context to the profile.Wow every DB Thread that tries to downgrade just makes me want to disagree with the logic
Gohan who had nearly no Ki left, needed an encouragement from the afterlife to even put up a fight and had one arm down. That Gohan yes. Not healthy I kick your ass ssj 2 Gohan. Also Gohan would have died no matter what from the vacuum of space.The Solar System that was supposed to kill Gohan, who is as strong or stronger than SP Cell? Yeah, no, it obviously doesn't scale to his base stats, I agree with OP.
He was half his Ki down, he needed encouragement to overpower Cell, proving again he was stronger than the dude even at half ki, I don't think the state of your arm influences your durability.Gohan who had nearly no Ki left, needed an encouragement from the afterlife to even put up a fight and had one arm down. That Gohan yes. Not healthy I kick your ass ssj 2 Gohan. Also Gohan would have died no matter what from the vacuum of space.
How is it? He either could use his remaining ki to take cell out or try to survive the attack and then die lf asphyxiation anyways together with everyone.He was half his Ki down, he needed encouragement to overpower Cell, proving again he was stronger than the dude even at half ki, I don't think the state of your arm influences your durability.
This is still a very significant contradiction
Proposal: Make Revived Cell's rating be "4-B, higher with Solar Kamehameha".
I think that we have enough.how much more staff agreement we need?
I personally do not mind that proposal actually. Though, I am positive various Buu saga cast upscale from Solar Kamehameha or better yet Teen Gohan's Kamehameha wave that would have been 2x stronger.@Nullflowerblush To keep track of where we're at:
Agree: Damage3245, KingTempest, Maverick_Zero_X, LordGriffin1000
Disagree: DarkDragonMedeus
Unclear: DemonGodMitchAubin
I don't think anyone would scale directly to the Father-Son Kamehameha as that is a combo move between Gohan and Goku, with Goku sending Gohan energy from Otherworld according to the databook, and the manga shows Goku in his Kamehameha-firing stance throughout.I personally do not mind that proposal actually. Though, I am positive various Buu saga cast upscale from Solar Kamehameha or better yet Teen Gohan's Kamehameha wave that would have been 2x stronger.
Is there any statement that goku gave energy? Always thought Goku's voice just hyped him up.I don't think anyone would scale directly to the Father-Son Kamehameha as that is a combo move between Gohan and Goku, with Goku sending Gohan energy from Otherworld according to the databook, and the manga shows Goku in his Kamehameha-firing stance throughout.
Yeah:Is there any statement that goku gave energy? Always thought Goku's voice just hyped him up.
who would you say that would scale to the father son kamehameha and solar kamehameha, if any?Yeah:
Well, nobody would directly scale to either of them, but other characters would scale above it later on through multipliers and so on.who would you say that would scale to the father son kamehameha and solar kamehameha, if any?
I mean everyone having above the totality of a newly transformed ssj2 and a super saiyan should scale.who would you say that would scale to the father son kamehameha and solar kamehameha, if any?
Shouldn't basically everyone scale to it? I mean buu and ssj3 goku and anyone above for sure had more ki but I don't know about Majin Vegeta. Even he should scale but it's kinda ambivalent.Well, nobody would directly scale to either of them, but other characters would scale above it later on through multipliers and so on.
El manga legendario states that. If anyone knows Spanish they can help. I think it says the kamehameha not thrown only by Gohan.I feel like "borrowing power from goku" just refers to it in a symbolic sense and inheriting his father's will to never give up, rather than literally using goku's power, that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
That's one interpretation yeah, but the databook provides two statements that could also be interpreted very literally and the manga visual of Goku backs up that he is contributing energy.I feel like "borrowing power from goku" just refers to it in a symbolic sense and inheriting his father's will to never give up, rather than literally using goku's power, that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Wouldn't anyone above a basic ssj2 and a ssj still scale to it? Actually scratch that Gohan had half his ki which is much more than what Goku had so shouldn't basically every Ssj2 and above scale?That's one interpretation yeah, but the databook provides two statements that could also be interpreted very literally and the manga visual of Goku backs up that he is contributing energy.