Captain America (MCU) vs BLU Team (Team Fortress 2)

[Colonel_Krukov]

*Standard battle assumptions
*Speed Equalised
*1960's BLU Team
*Battle takes place at 2Fort starting at opposite ends
*Standard Equipment for both

Captain America: 1 (CBslayeR)

BLU Team: 7 (Jackythejack,Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan,Tybaltcapulet,Abstractions,TheGatememer,FantaRin_The_First,Knifeman29)

Inconclusive: 0 ()

Cap is 0.914 tons, BLU Teams best weapon is 0.716 tons.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean at the very least Cap is gonna have 9 people shooting at him, potentially from many different angles. Explosion splash damage to throw him off, or just in general to knock him off balance, the mercs know the terrain a lot better than Cap would, there's a lot of areas to just lead him around and shoot him. I think in like, a war of attrition, the 9 mercs would likely take it even if all their weapons can't help. There are things such as Jarate to help with hurting Cap, and Bonk could be used to distract Cap, or Crit-o-Cola to deal even more damage with weapons. Medic is mildly pointless outside of collecitng uber but an uber charge could be really helpful, same with Heavy and his own healing.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I mean at the very least Cap is gonna have 9 people shooting at him, potentially from many different angles. Explosion splash damage to throw him off, or just in general to knock him off balance, the mercs know the terrain a lot better than Cap would, there's a lot of areas to just lead him around and shoot him. I think in like, a war of attrition, the 9 mercs would likely take it even if all their weapons can't help. There are things such as Jarate to help with hurting Cap, and Bonk could be used to distract Cap, or Crit-o-Cola to deal even more damage with weapons. Medic is mildly pointless outside of collecitng uber but an uber charge could be really helpful, same with Heavy and his own healing.

Vote for the BLU team?

 

[Jackythejack]

Yeah vote for the BLU team.

 

[CBslayeR]

I don't really think Cap has a wincon here, any meaningful damage gets healed by Medic and gives them uber while the rest of the team can just nuke him with a billion projectiles, status effects, aoe, and stuff like invisibility

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I don't really think Cap has a wincon here, any meaningful damage gets healed by Medic and gives them uber while the rest of the team can just nuke him with a billion projectiles, status effects, aoe, and stuff like invisibility

Pretty sure Cap one shots everyone.

 

[CBslayeR]

Actually I thought Cap got downgraded to 9-A for some reason, gonna hold my vote for now

 

[CBslayeR]

Restrict Halloween and Mann Power power ups, it makes it stompy for the mercs since they basically have infinite uber and damage transferal, and can just stun GG and nuke him with literally everything (I had this banger analysis of everything being written but I realized all those abilities make it a stomp)

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Actually I thought Cap got downgraded to 9-A for some reason, gonna hold my vote for now

Feat got calculated to be 8-C after all.

Anyway BLU fra

 

[Tybaltcapulet]

BLU fra

 

[CBslayeR]

This is a stomp unless OP removes Halloween/Mannpower equipment, literally nothing Cap can do because of damage reflection, stun hax, and danmaku from 9 monoculus and 9 mercenaries

 

[CBslayeR]

Just realized I can't read, didn't see that it was standard equipment

 

[CBslayeR]

I'm gonna vote Cap here since the Mercs are basically haxless here, the only real big threats here are Pyro (airblast a shield toss would suck, and Cap has no resistance to fire so it'd hurt) Demo and Engineer with prep (traps and Engie building 3 sentries would be rough) Medic (uber and reviving fallen teammates is extremely useful)

Cap would not get overwhelmed by the whole team firing at him due to them starting on opposite sides, most of their weapons are most effective in close range besides Sniper obviously, Cap probably sees 9 people rushing at him and goes inside the base where there's plenty of places to hide and restrict their mobility unintentionally (lots of choke points and ceilings that force the mercs to be grounded and unable to dodge when encountering Cap)

Cap pretty much has an answer to most of the teams advantages here

Scout is outskilled, and any damage sustained is healed off by his mid low and hiding for a little bit

Soldier is outskilled and pretty stupid, he wouldn't fare well

Pyro's fire is countered by Cap jumping in the water if he's near any and Pyro is forced to get close to a guy who oneshots you to deal damage, he might just be able to outright block his fire too with his shield (no unlocks for anyone so flares aren't a thing)

Demoman's sticky traps are good but his own alcoholism screws him, he'd likely be close by his trap drinking which Cap could hear and be aware of his presence.

Heavy can't really get past the shield before Cap kills him, even if he's ubered Cap probably disarms him with higher LS

Engineer if he's unprepared gets completely ******, sentries won't try and bypass the shield so Cap just destroys it with 0 difficulty. If he has time to setup more then its a bit harder but very doable for Cap.

Medic will never be alone, but there's no one who can really save him if he gets into a fight with him since they're all oneshot and outskilled. He'd probably get targeted extremely hard by Cap once he notices him healing and reviving people. His own resurrection is countered by just knocking him out too.

Sniper is almost useless here, Cap most likely forces the fight out of his sightlines for the whole fight

Spy is completely useless here, he can't sneak up on Cap and his gun is useless.

Cap basically just wins from power, skill, experience, and the teams lack of synergy due to the stock loadouts not having a lot of team support

 

[Jackythejack]

Scout is outskilled, and any damage sustained is healed off by his mid low and hiding for a little bit

Hide where? There's nowhere he can hide on 2Fort of all places. It's just not a place that lends well to hiding, especially with a whole team of 9 hunting him down. There's no way Cap can hide on a place as small as 2Fort with 9 people hunting him down. Scout's just has to shoot him multiple times to do some good damage. Cap's regeneration took several minutes to take effect, and there is no way he will hide for several minutes when the mercs know 2Fort especially well, and Cap doesn't know about 2Fort at all. Scout can also make himself temporarily invulnerable, making him a good distraction for Cap, and his Crit-o-Cola make his shots do even more damage. Cap can't protect his entire body, his shield is too small. Especially when, again, there's 9 other people shooting him.

Soldier is outskilled and pretty stupid, he wouldn't fare well

Soldier also has his die and come back stronger pills, meaning that he has many chances to come back and take more damage out of Cap, damage that he wouldn't be able to heal immediately with, again, 9 other people on him. He's one of the 9 most dangerous mercs in the world, and he has a good arsenal of which to hurt Cap, with his Righteous Bison and Cow Mangler, which even a glance from one of the shots could knock him off balance.

Pyro's fire is countered by Cap jumping in the water if he's near any and Pyro is forced to get close to a guy who oneshots you to deal damage, he might just be able to outright block his fire too with his shield (no unlocks for anyone so flares aren't a thing)

I don't see why he wouldn't have unlocks. Doesn't say anything about that in the fight. Therefor Scorch Shot/Man melter could set Cap on fire, and airblasts can likely knock him or his shield away. Unlocks would sorta have to be allowed because otherwise they wouldn't have ways of hurting Cap; the weapons that would hurt him are all unlockables (Cow Mangler, Batsaber, Capper, Pomson, etc.)

Demoman's sticky traps are good but his own alcoholism screws him, he'd likely be close by his trap drinking which Cap could hear and be aware of his presence.

Completely unfounded. Demoman may be a drunkard but he's a good demoman all the same (if he wasn't he wouldn't be sitting here yada yada), and we see RED Demo successfully lead people into a sticky trap before, and BLU is basically the same as RED for the most part (if not a bit less whacky/deranged). I don't think his drunkenness would get the best of him, when it never has before.

Heavy can't really get past the shield before Cap kills him, even if he's ubered Cap probably disarms him with higher LS

Cap would have to get close to him and I'm not even sure if he would be able to with 8 other skilled people shooting at him all at the same time. Heavy's main use here is more or less a distraction unfortunately, so if Cap even bothers to focus on him first (which he might because it's a big ******* guy with a machine gun) he's just making things worse for himself. Especially since Heavy would probably be around other people, making him risky to focus down.

Engineer if he's unprepared gets completely ******, sentries won't try and bypass the shield so Cap just destroys it with 0 difficulty. If he has time to setup more then its a bit harder but very doable for Cap.

You just...don't explain why and I don't understand that. Machine guns and rockets seem like something that would easily wreck Cap if given the chance, or at least knock him off guard. With something like the Wrangler, Engineer can even direct these things to Cap. Nothing stops him from hanging back and building a strong sentry while the other mercs distract Cap, if even temporarily. An Engi doesn't need that long to build. The Eureka Effect and build speed enhancers like the Jag would even further help him get set up.

Medic will never be alone, but there's no one who can really save him if he gets into a fight with him since they're all oneshot and outskilled. He'd probably get targeted extremely hard by Cap once he notices him healing and reviving people. His own resurrection is countered by just knocking him out too.

I don't think Cap can just knock them out when he would obliterate them with a punch. Either way Medic's ubercharge will be useful no matter what, and he can build that without really coming into contact with Cap. Afterwards he just finds someone quick and agile, like Scout, who's used to taking on bigger or tougher guys, and uber him while he goes to town. Or he does it with someone like Pyro or idk. Point is Uber is really important this match.

Sniper is almost useless here, Cap most likely forces the fight out of his sightlines for the whole fight

I think you underestimate how annoying a Sniper is on 2Fort lol. Sniper doesn't have to move in the slightest, and Cap needs to get up there to actually kill him. If he doesn't get to where Sniper is than no one wins. Sniper can also just chuck Jarate on him to make sure his teammates can actually do really good damage with mini-crits. Also with how Snipers can sorta just use any sightline ever I don't find it too difficult to believe that he can just hit Cap while he's running down some hallway. 2Fort is like 80% one big sight line, unless you're in the intel area.

Spy is completely useless here, he can't sneak up on Cap and his gun is useless.

Yeah I can't argue this Spy is just more of a distraction than anything.

teams lack of synergy due to the stock loadouts

Nothing talks about only having stock loadouts, and if they only have stock loadouts they literally cannot hurt Cap. Where are you getting this info from? Either way, I'd say the team itself would still have synergy even if they don't have synergizing loadouts (even though they will because if they don't have non-stock, again, can't hurt Cap), they've been working together for a long time. RED and BLU have constantly been at war, so it's kind of crazy to say that they wouldn't be able to work well together, especially since we've seen BLU have coordinated charges before.

Oh also they start at opposite ends on 2Fort, meaning that they should have more than enough time to set things up before Cap navigates his way there; again, he doesn't know the area, and the mercs have been fighting there for like, years.

 

[Naito-desu]

I find this interesting, how do matches work between characters where one is outnumbered but trumps them in AP?

 

[Abstractions]

I think the biggest carry of the team here ends up being Medic, if they didn't exist I'd probably give it to Cap here but having incredibly good healing and Invulnerability gives mercs multiple chances. Nothing prevents Medic from hiding behind Heavy either so reaching him will be difficult and any use of firearms will likely be soaked up by the big Russian man.

Cap can use cover and play it safe but he's inevitably outgunned despite the stat and skill advantages he has.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Snip

Snip

Voting for the Mercs?

 

[Abstractions]

Voting for the Mercs?

Yeah, purely because of the impact Medic has.

 

[TheGatememer]

Basically, anyone without 8-C weapons (with the exception of Spy) aren't really gonna harm Cap, due to the AP gap. So only Scout, Engineer, Soldier, Pyro, Sniper, and Spy can actually harm Cap at all. With that said, I'm probably gonna vote for BLU Team here.

The amount of debuffs that are gonna be put on Cap will already put him at a disadvantage, Scout and Sniper (and to a lesser extent Soldier) can increase the amount of damage Cap takes by marking him with the Fan O'War, covering him in Jarate, or increasing via the Buff Banner, Pyro is gonna be setting him on fire, Heavy and Scout will slow down his movement speed via the Natascha and Sandman, Heavy can temporarily incap Cap by making him laugh uncontrollably via the Holiday Punch, Demoman and Pyro can knock him back with the Loose Cannon and Airblast, There will be two Bread Monsters on his face attempting to eat him, etc.

Cap also has to worry about the various buffs/heals that the BLU team has such as the Mad Milk, Conch, Whip, Sandviches, Dispensers, and of course, Medic's various Mediguns, which can even make someone invulnerable for several seconds.

Not to mention, Cap is at a major numbers disadvantage, as Cap will have at least 7, if not 8 or 9 people firing at him at once, possibly even more if Engineer can build a couple Sentries, and there will also be two Bread Monsters attempting to eat his face. Even if some of those don't hurt cap very much, they will sure cause big distractions.

On top of all that, Cap's main method of fighting is completely ineffective against Pyro, as his Airblasts will both reflect his shield back at him, and will halt any of his advances towards the mercenaries hence why he hard-counters demoknight.

Even if Cap could somehow power through getting bombarded by all directions, he will probably be distracted enough to the point where Spy can get a backstab off, and even if that fails, there is nothing stopping Sniper from head-shotting him with a fully charged Shooting Star, which only takes a few seconds to fully charge. And Sniper doesn't even need to wait for it to fully charge to shoot at Cap.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Snip

Just making sure. Is all this stuff part of the standard equipment?

 

[TheGatememer]

I just assumed that we were using all equipment. Do the mercenaries only have access to stock + their vaporizing weapons?

If so, I'll still vote BLU team via Cap being distracted enough for Sniper to be able to headshot him, or Spy being able to backstab.

 

[Jackythejack]

Just making sure. Is all this stuff part of the standard equipment?

These are all weapons that mercs just have access to. It should be standard.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

These are all weapons that mercs just have access to. It should be standard.

Well, they have whatever they commonly start with, plus access to any weapons they can get their hands on in the match, up to 8-C as mentioned in the OP

 

[TheGatememer]

These are all weapons that mercs just have access to. It should be standard.

Honestly yea, but that's not on the profiles currently for some reason.

 

[Jackythejack]

Well, they have whatever they commonly start with, plus access to any weapons they can get their hands on in the match, up to 8-C as mentioned in the OP

All their 8-C weapons are non-stock equipment, which you could argue means non-standard but if they start in 2Fort they could probably find this shit at the resupply cabinet anyways.

I legitimately don't know why every acquirable normal weapon isn't considered standard.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

All their 8-C weapons are non-stock equipment, which you could argue means non-standard but if they start in 2Fort they could probably find this shit at the resupply cabinet anyways.

I legitimately don't know why every acquirable normal weapon isn't considered standard.

Because I was a console scrub and was brought up on the Orange Box

 

[Jackythejack]

Because I was a console scrub and was brought up on the Orange Box

Ah that'll do it lol.

 

[CBslayeR]

Hide where? There's nowhere he can hide on 2Fort of all places. It's just not a place that lends well to hiding, especially with a whole team of 9 hunting him down. There's no way Cap can hide on a place as small as 2Fort with 9 people hunting him down. Scout's just has to shoot him multiple times to do some good damage. Cap's regeneration took several minutes to take effect, and there is no way he will hide for several minutes when the mercs know 2Fort especially well, and Cap doesn't know about 2Fort at all. Scout can also make himself temporarily invulnerable, making him a good distraction for Cap, and his Crit-o-Cola make his shots do even more damage. Cap can't protect his entire body, his shield is too small. Especially when, again, there's 9 other people shooting him.


Soldier also has his die and come back stronger pills, meaning that he has many chances to come back and take more damage out of Cap, damage that he wouldn't be able to heal immediately with, again, 9 other people on him. He's one of the 9 most dangerous mercs in the world, and he has a good arsenal of which to hurt Cap, with his Righteous Bison and Cow Mangler, which even a glance from one of the shots could knock him off balance.


I don't see why he wouldn't have unlocks. Doesn't say anything about that in the fight. Therefor Scorch Shot/Man melter could set Cap on fire, and airblasts can likely knock him or his shield away. Unlocks would sorta have to be allowed because otherwise they wouldn't have ways of hurting Cap; the weapons that would hurt him are all unlockables (Cow Mangler, Batsaber, Capper, Pomson, etc.)


Completely unfounded. Demoman may be a drunkard but he's a good demoman all the same (if he wasn't he wouldn't be sitting here yada yada), and we see RED Demo successfully lead people into a sticky trap before, and BLU is basically the same as RED for the most part (if not a bit less whacky/deranged). I don't think his drunkenness would get the best of him, when it never has before.


Cap would have to get close to him and I'm not even sure if he would be able to with 8 other skilled people shooting at him all at the same time. Heavy's main use here is more or less a distraction unfortunately, so if Cap even bothers to focus on him first (which he might because it's a big ******* guy with a machine gun) he's just making things worse for himself. Especially since Heavy would probably be around other people, making him risky to focus down.


You just...don't explain why and I don't understand that. Machine guns and rockets seem like something that would easily wreck Cap if given the chance, or at least knock him off guard. With something like the Wrangler, Engineer can even direct these things to Cap. Nothing stops him from hanging back and building a strong sentry while the other mercs distract Cap, if even temporarily. An Engi doesn't need that long to build. The Eureka Effect and build speed enhancers like the Jag would even further help him get set up.


I don't think Cap can just knock them out when he would obliterate them with a punch. Either way Medic's ubercharge will be useful no matter what, and he can build that without really coming into contact with Cap. Afterwards he just finds someone quick and agile, like Scout, who's used to taking on bigger or tougher guys, and uber him while he goes to town. Or he does it with someone like Pyro or idk. Point is Uber is really important this match.


I think you underestimate how annoying a Sniper is on 2Fort lol. Sniper doesn't have to move in the slightest, and Cap needs to get up there to actually kill him. If he doesn't get to where Sniper is than no one wins. Sniper can also just chuck Jarate on him to make sure his teammates can actually do really good damage with mini-crits. Also with how Snipers can sorta just use any sightline ever I don't find it too difficult to believe that he can just hit Cap while he's running down some hallway. 2Fort is like 80% one big sight line, unless you're in the intel area.


Yeah I can't argue this Spy is just more of a distraction than anything.


Nothing talks about only having stock loadouts, and if they only have stock loadouts they literally cannot hurt Cap. Where are you getting this info from? Either way, I'd say the team itself would still have synergy even if they don't have synergizing loadouts (even though they will because if they don't have non-stock, again, can't hurt Cap), they've been working together for a long time. RED and BLU have constantly been at war, so it's kind of crazy to say that they wouldn't be able to work well together, especially since we've seen BLU have coordinated charges before.

Oh also they start at opposite ends on 2Fort, meaning that they should have more than enough time to set things up before Cap navigates his way there; again, he doesn't know the area, and the mercs have been fighting there for like, years.

Unlocks aren't listed as standard equipment, there's a separate tab on all of their profiles for their unlocks. Scout (the most used merc and likely the one with the most work done on his profile) has them listed as optional in the equipment section too. There needs to be a CRT to get them listed as optional equipment on everyone's profile (that way we can have unique loadouts for matches and not forced to use omega haxlord tf2 merc who carries everything on him like Mario before getting revised)

2fort is an amazing place for Cap to be, he doesn't know the layout but he does have a photographic memory so he'll become familiar really quick once he realizes both areas are mirrors of each other. Most of the Mercenaries are comically stupid so they'd probably struggle to find Cap regardless with his stealth mastery.

Cap can basically restrict most of the classes from being mobile by forcing the fight into choke points like the most of the indoor parts and sewers. He's also not gonna use higher areas since he'd clearly see the guy holding a Sniper rifle likely on top of the battlements. Their pushes are also worse because of chokepoints

Cap basically forces all of the mercenaries to separate or prepare (which they do in character judging by how they hunted the Yeti separate in the jungle inferno video) They likely don't all stick together to overwhelm him since to them he's just a guy with a shield, they don't know that they all get gored by him.

I'm gonna assume they have unlocks for now.

Scout's only useful unlock here is Bonk, everything else is useless here because of how badly outskilled Scout is. Scout likely encounters Cap alone in most scenarios since his job doesn't really have him stay with his team unless he's defending (he isn't here) Scout never stacks drinks either, if he can it's OOC. Cap can likely outlast Bonk anyways by just blocking his shots due to skill and enhanced senses.

Soldier's banners are useful if he can deal enough damage but that's assuming Cap doesn't just shield toss him instantly, and the Come back stronger pills we've literally never seen in action or if it's even combat applicable. Obviously 8-C stuff is useful but that's assuming Soldier even uses it before his other weaponry (Nobody knows that Cap is far stronger than him)

Pyro flares are good here but they just get blocked probably, Airblast isn't disarming Cap (Class 100 LS) and he has to get close to do that which is a death sentence against Cap. Jetpack is useless since there aren't gonna fight where there's airspace for him, and Cap could probably just snipe him with a shield anyways

Demo's obviously gonna play his role as a defense class here, he likely isn't pushing as hard as the other classes especially in a closed space like 2fort where he'll hurt himself with his own explosions. Cap also isn't stupid enough to just blindly follow Demo around a corner when he has explosives, he could also just chuck his shield while he's running and oneshot.

Heavy likely sticks with Medic (that's their in character combo), the other mercenaries that aren't defending a position (Engie, Demo likely, Sniper) will separate since they'd cover more ground that way and they aren't aware that the guy is far stronger than anyone they've ever faced. The mercenaries will never be in a position that allows them all to jump Cap after the initial bridge fight since its all chokepoints while he's indoors. Uber is a big factor here though (There needs to be a CRT that gives them 8-C dura while ubered since they can no sell the vaporization weapons btw) Uber would be useless if Heavy didn't have unlocks since if he gets disarmed he just pulls out another Minigun through hammerspace. Cap encountering an Ubered Heavy likely makes him target Medic afterward though which could be bad since they won't have a guy to revive them after a while.

Engineer's sentries don't try and use splash damage, so they can't get past Caps shield unless Engie Wrangles it but then he has to deal with the short startup of the wrangler. The sentry gets oneshot anyways still.

Sniper won't be chasing Cap down, in character he camps. He's also too far to hit Cap with a Jarate from across the map at the start. He also wouldn't lead with a Piss Gun since he wants to kill the guy and doesn't know he'd be better off supporting his team. If Sniper is in a range where he can use Jarate he's already dead.

Medic is the big team player here but he also becomes the biggest target once Cap notices the people he's killed are coming back to life or are becoming invulnerable. Cap can very easily incap Medic by just choking him out too, he's able to hold back enough to not kill regular Soldiers too so I don't think incap is out of the question.

Spy is still useless because Cap can hear dead ringer and I don't even think it prevents a oneshot here.

Basically even with unlocks Cap can very easily force the mercs to separate to cover more ground (which they will in character, like with the yeti) and take them out one by one or multiple of them. They also won't figure out that Cap can oneshot everybody here unless they actively tell Medic (assuming he even finds anyone since they don't seem to have any means of radio communication or anything) The teams main wincon here is just Cap ending up in a fight with the majority of them at once with team support from Medic which isn't very likely due to how Cap would likely approach the situation (stealthily and cautiously)

 

[Jackythejack]

Most of the Mercenaries are comically stupid so they'd probably struggle to find Cap regardless with his stealth mastery.

You're downplaying the mercs like...mega hard here. All 9 of them are considered the most dangerous mercenaries in the world. They're the best the administrator has to offer. Every other one of her teams got taken down by the TF:Classic guys, and they were all also very skilled warriors. The Administrator doesn't just hire dumbasses; she hired them for a good reason. They are still good fighters with years of experience, some even before joining the Gravel Wars. This is just like, incredibly gross downplay. They're weird and whacky, yes, but the only one I'd call comically stupid is Soldier, while the rest are fairly intelligent or at least capable, with Scout the only other one being iffy about.

Unlocks aren't listed as standard equipment,

I will state again...If their unlocks can't be used then they cannot hit Cap because only their unlocks are actually 8-C. I don't want to have to repeat it again. They need the unlocks, otherwise this is a stomp. They literally can't hurt Cap then.

Scout's only useful unlock here is Bonk, everything else is useless here because of how badly outskilled Scout is.

Don't need to be terribly skilled to know to shoot the guy with the guns you have. Bonk is good as a distraction to help his team out in making sure they can hit Cap. His Capper and Batsaber can also hit him.

Scout never stacks drinks either, if he can it's OOC. Cap can likely outlast Bonk anyways by just blocking his shots due to skill and enhanced senses

Never said he would stack drinks, just saying that both drinks are useful. Cap can block his shots, sure, but Scout's entire team are likely to follow behind him (there's literally one guy in 2Fort they're not stupid enough to just do their own thing), and he'd have to worry about like the 7 or 8 other people shooting at him.

Soldier's banners are useful if he can deal enough damage but that's assuming Cap doesn't just shield toss him instantly, and the Come back stronger pills we've literally never seen in action or if it's even combat applicable.

We still know that he will come back stronger. We've seen ressurection in the TF2 comics. We see it works pretty quickly. Merasmus is a wizard and odds are he can handle the same amount of instant ressurection. And we see Merasumus like, die in the Scream Fortress game mode, pretty sure. He just comes back in like, a couple of minutes. They're Merasmus' pills, so they likely function similarly to his own respawning method.

but that's assuming Cap doesn't just shield toss him instantly

Cap wouldn't know to do that to him. He can only toss his shield so many times and if he tosses it at one person he leaves himself vulnerable to, again, like 7-8 other people who will just shoot and debuff him. This is just like, a certainty, especially since Soldier would likely be more willing to stick around his teammates (again, Blu is less chaotic than their RED counterparts as depicted in cinematics, but still somewhat out there).

Pyro flares are good here but they just get blocked probably

Pretty sure splash damage would still get him. Pyro can shoot at his feet and light him on fire that way. Cap literally, physically cannot block his entire body. He has to pick and choose.

Airblast isn't disarming Cap

Never said it would. Said it would knock his shield out of his planned trajectory, potentially leaving him completely unarmed. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that yes, the shield would be moved out of the way of its intended path. Airblasts move heavier things all the time, like a Heavy or a Soldier. The shield could at most weigh like 12 pounds? 50 if we use logic but this is comics/movies. It could easily be knocked off course. Since speed is equalized Pyro would have enough time to react to such things.

Demo's obviously gonna play his role as a defense class here

I mean have you seen Demoknights-

Cap also isn't stupid enough to just blindly follow Demo around a corner when he has explosives, he could also just chuck his shield while he's running and oneshot.

Okay, then neither of them kill one another lol. Cap can't just through his shield unless he does some weird ricochet tactics, and even then 2Fort in the close quarters areas has a lot of turns and 90 degree angles. On top of that, would he bother throwing his shield at a dude who is currently running away when he has other people that are currently shooting at him? I don't think so. Demo is mainly the distraction here, but he can still trip up Steve by just shooting grenades at him.

The mercenaries will never be in a position that allows them all to jump Cap after the initial bridge fight

I don't think this will go past an initial bridge fight, if we want to go down that route. All it takes is one headshot from a sniper to do Cap in. Sniper is a really good shot, and also not stupid like you're trying to make him out to be. If Cap is occupied fighting, again, like 7 or 8 other people, he will have a really hard time dodging a sniper shot that is also coming directly for his head. Sniper could hit the writhing and rampaging tentacles of the bread monsters, which move erratically and without any real pattern to them. He can hit Cap's head if he wants, and Cap would have no time to really block it.

guy to revive them after a while.

He doesn't have any revives btw. That's a MVM thing and we're not considering that. Medic can revive himself though by making deals with Satan with his certain amount of souls that he has, giving himi quite a few tries, and I think it's something that Steve would expect and would be a good edge during the fight. Medic is super important because his uber would make others invulnerable to attacks on Cap's level. That allows someone to just go in and wallop on Cap, or distract him even further for a well aimed Sniper shot.

Engineer's sentries don't try and use splash damage

They're missiles, they do splash damage. At the very least there's potential to push Cap back. The Wrangler can be drawn out before he sees Cap if he worries about the start up time. Engineer is like, the smartest dude on the team. He'd know what to do here.

Oh and I forgot to mention that Engineer's Short Circuit has an attack which removes enemy projectiles. Idk how that interacts with Cap's shield but that is food for thought. This is one of his vaporization weapons too so he could use it.

Sniper won't be chasing Cap down

Never said he would but I do think he could throw Jarate on him. he can throw that damn jar pretty far. He can just throw it on the initial bridge fight, if we wanna be hoenst here. It has a big AoE. If he wants to support his teammates (which he might after seeing Cap gib some unlucky Merc), then he could just pull out the Sydney Sleeper right afterwards. Or, again, the Shooting Star just one taps on Steve's head. He ain't regenerating from that. The bridge is like one of the best sightlines for Sniper. There's no reason he wouldn't be there and make it impossible for Steve to leave one side of the map in the conventional way, forcing him down a really weird path through the sewers.

Spy is still useless

Never said he wasn't dude lol.

cover more ground (which they will in character, like with the yeti)

The Yeti was at Mercenary Park, which is a really big place that they didn't know about. It was a new map. This is 2Fort for god's sake, a map where they've been fighting for years. they don't need to cover more ground. In the comics the team has always stuck together a lot more, because they're depicted as more rational there. BLU is a more rational version of RED team, so that's what they'd likely be doing here as well.

The teams main wincon here is just Cap ending up in a fight with the majority of them at once with team support from Medic which isn't very likely due to how Cap would likely approach the situation (stealthily and cautiously)

Medic/team pushes are common in TF2 so I can see the whole team just rushing him with the help of Medic. It's not out of the question. Cap can take this as steathily as he wants. It doesn't matter when the first attack he makes will alert literally the entire team of mercs to his location. After that, there's literally no way he can hide. 2Fort is not a map where you can hide. It's very open. These guys have been fighting in 2Fort for years. They know this place like the back of their hand. Cap may have photographic memory but the mercs would be just as familiar with the location. It's ridiculous to say otherwise. And again, barely anywhere to sneak around on 2Fort of all places. Cap is skilled, but he really just can't take on 9 people at once when a few shots from any of them would severely wound him.

(also OP you forgot to count TheGatememer's vote. We're 1-5-0)

 

[Tybaltcapulet]

I'm sorry CB, but your argumentation skills are honestly rather poor, at least when it comes to this battle in particular. A good chunk of your arguments are either based upon an entirely different scenario than a 2Fort battle, strawmen, or are simply predicated on what I would say are pretty flimsy premises. And some of the arguments here lead me to believe that you simply don't play TF2, and are operating off of a complete outsider's perspective.

Unlocks aren't listed as standard equipment, there's a separate tab on all of their profiles for their unlocks. Scout (the most used merc and likely the one with the most work done on his profile) has them listed as optional in the equipment section too. There needs to be a CRT to get them listed as optional equipment on everyone's profile (that way we can have unique loadouts for matches and not forced to use omega haxlord tf2 merc who carries everything on him like Mario before getting revised)

I'm not going to get into this because it seems that unlocks are required for this match to work at all. So there's no point in making this a big issue whatsoever.

2fort is an amazing place for Cap to be, he doesn't know the layout but he does have a photographic memory so he'll become familiar really quick once he realizes both areas are mirrors of each other. Most of the Mercenaries are comically stupid so they'd probably struggle to find Cap regardless with his stealth mastery.

2Fort is a very bad place for stealth, with a lot of open space, even in the smaller and tighter places of the map. Cap would find utilizing stealth to be generally more difficult, especially since he's got nothing similar to invisibility like the Spy has. This is not a great place for Cap to be simply because it has a simple layout. That simple layout also limits Cap severely in how much stealth he can engage in. And to consider all the mercs comically stupid is either indicative on a total lack of knowledge of the characters or an inability to differentiate wackiness from stupidity. And considering how competent they are in taking down multiple threats, including other merc groups and all sorts of magic entities, it's not hard to see that this depiction of them is obvious downplaying.

Cap can basically restrict most of the classes from being mobile by forcing the fight into choke points like the most of the indoor parts and sewers. He's also not gonna use higher areas since he'd clearly see the guy holding a Sniper rifle likely on top of the battlements. Their pushes are also worse because of chokepoints

I mean at that point he also restricts his own mobility and room to fight in, and more importantly, makes it harder for him to avoid splash damage. If he's in a more compact area stuff like rockets from Engie and Soldier will have an easier time actually doing damage. This also would apply to Demo's pills, and furthermore allows him more compact areas in which to set up sticky traps should Cap make his way through the sewers. And an Uber push through a chokepoint where they can concentrate all their firepower, again including the splash damage can be immensely powerful, so that presents another challenge for Cap here. The inside areas of 2Fort aren't as helpful to Cap as you might think they are.

Cap basically forces all of the mercenaries to separate or prepare (which they do in character judging by how they hunted the Yeti separate in the jungle inferno video) They likely don't all stick together to overwhelm him since to them he's just a guy with a shield, they don't know that they all get gored by him.

This is entirely based off an entirely different unfamiliar map that required different preparations to be successful at all. 2Fort is not Mercenary Park, not even close. Therefore this argument is completely irrelevant.

I'm gonna assume they have unlocks for now.

Scout's only useful unlock here is Bonk, everything else is useless here because of how badly outskilled Scout is. Scout likely encounters Cap alone in most scenarios since his job doesn't really have him stay with his team unless he's defending (he isn't here) Scout never stacks drinks either, if he can it's OOC. Cap can likely outlast Bonk anyways by just blocking his shots due to skill and enhanced senses.

First off, the mixing drinks argument is a strawman. Jacky never indicates that they were arguing that Scout does this in any capacity. Also this entirely ignores that the Capper and Batsaber exist, which also can damage Cap. And even if Scout is alone when he finds Cap, the sounds of his scattergun going off or hell just his screams in general will immediately alert the rest of BLU. So stealth will be even more difficult, especially if Spy is on the lookout.

Soldier's banners are useful if he can deal enough damage but that's assuming Cap doesn't just shield toss him instantly, and the Come back stronger pills we've literally never seen in action or if it's even combat applicable. Obviously 8-C stuff is useful but that's assuming Soldier even uses it before his other weaponry (Nobody knows that Cap is far stronger than him)

If Cap is going about the inside route, then based on that Soldier's rockets would generally be able to get more damage. A more enclosed space would make it harder for Cap to avoid this, which would allow Soldier to more consistently use his banners, and any of them will give his team an immediate and powerful bonus that Cap won't be immediately prepared for.

Pyro flares are good here but they just get blocked probably, Airblast isn't disarming Cap (Class 100 LS) and he has to get close to do that which is a death sentence against Cap. Jetpack is useless since there aren't gonna fight where there's airspace for him, and Cap could probably just snipe him with a shield anyways

The flares really aren't that important in my personal opinion. But considering the fact that the main purpose of Pyro's airblast is to block incoming rockets, I don't think he's just going to entirely fail in blocking a flying shield. And without his shield, Cap is without his primary weapon and primary form of defense. This again also momentarily opens Cap up to damage from multiple angles, which can also put him on the backfoot.

Demo's obviously gonna play his role as a defense class here, he likely isn't pushing as hard as the other classes especially in a closed space like 2fort where he'll hurt himself with his own explosions. Cap also isn't stupid enough to just blindly follow Demo around a corner when he has explosives, he could also just chuck his shield while he's running and oneshot.

One, Demoknight exists, so Demo isn't entirely limited to a defensive playstyle. And Demo doesn't have to make Cap follow him anywhere. He can launch stickies to block off certain areas of the map while Cap is focusing on other mercs. He can spam grenade launcher pills under his feets and in his general area. Demoman isn't stupid enough or limited enough in weaponry for this to be necessary. This is built upon a misunderstanding of Jacky's argument. Jacky wasn't saying that Demo would specifically try to lead Cap to a trap as if that's the strategy They were using this to establish that Demo's drinking doesn't really affect his combat ability in any significant way. Demo is perfectly capable of fighting regardless of his drinking.

Heavy likely sticks with Medic (that's their in character combo), the other mercenaries that aren't defending a position (Engie, Demo likely, Sniper) will separate since they'd cover more ground that way and they aren't aware that the guy is far stronger than anyone they've ever faced. The mercenaries will never be in a position that allows them all to jump Cap after the initial bridge fight since its all chokepoints while he's indoors. Uber is a big factor here though (There needs to be a CRT that gives them 8-C dura while ubered since they can no sell the vaporization weapons btw) Uber would be useless if Heavy didn't have unlocks since if he gets disarmed he just pulls out another Minigun through hammerspace. Cap encountering an Ubered Heavy likely makes him target Medic afterward though which could be bad since they won't have a guy to revive them after a while.

I think saying "the guy is far stronger than anyone they've ever face" is some serious and gross downplay here. At the end of the day Cap is pretty much a really strong dude with a shield. His actual options for offense and defense pretty much entirely come down to said shield. The mercs again have gone up against enemies far more varied than Cap , and hell they went against the bread monster which was stronger than them and was an absolute bullet sponge. They are perfectly capable of working together to defeat technically superior opponents. And especially with Uber that makes them flat out immune to damage, which allows them time to converge on Cap's position and put him in an awkward spot.

Engineer's sentries don't try and use splash damage, so they can't get past Caps shield unless Engie Wrangles it but then he has to deal with the short startup of the wrangler. The sentry gets oneshot anyways still.

This is where I really start thinking you just haven't played the game. Anyone who has played it for any amount of time will know about the rockets on Level 3 sentries. I won't get into the Wrangler startup and oneshot potential, but it's very obvious that sentries can utilize splash damage. I'm also not keen on his Dispensers being pretty much ignored here, as they provide a portable healing and ammo supply station for all the mercs here. So they don't always need to suck off Medic's heal beam to get back into the fight. This allows Medic to prioritize healing targets without needing to constantly worry about healing everyone. And Engie's a straight up genius, so he's smart enough to put it in a useful place for his comrades.

Sniper won't be chasing Cap down, in character he camps. He's also too far to hit Cap with a Jarate from across the map at the start. He also wouldn't lead with a Piss Gun since he wants to kill the guy and doesn't know he'd be better off supporting his team. If Sniper is in a range where he can use Jarate he's already dead.

Ok so the Sydney sleeper is specifically designed to be a support weapon CB. You shoot the enemy and cover them in piss (which causes those doused in it to take more damage) so that your allies can use that against them. That's literally what the weapon is designed for. And to act as if in 2Fort Sniper is just completely unable to lob an AOE jar of piss far enough to hit Cap is just ignoring a crucial part of 2Fort. And this is that 2Fort isn't that large of a map, especially when things get started in the bridge battle. It's not that hard to chuck that thing over to Cap when it's within one of Sniper's best sightlines in the entire game. This is another point that makes me question whether you've actually played the game since it seems to not understand how Sniper's sightlines on 2Fort and one of his weapons in general works. And if you want to get into the chokepoints, sewers, indoor areas etc. then it's even easier for Sniper to get a Jarate in there with the limited room.

Medic is the big team player here but he also becomes the biggest target once Cap notices the people he's killed are coming back to life or are becoming invulnerable. Cap can very easily incap Medic by just choking him out too, he's able to hold back enough to not kill regular Soldiers too so I don't think incap is out of the question.

To be able to do this he has to get through all the other mercs protecting him, while also getting through Heavy's overheal, Uber etc. And choking him out would open Cap up to further damage. And furthermore, Medic isn't always required to assist in mitigating damage. Heavy's got the sandvich, Soldier can straight up resurrect himself and continue to blast Cap, and like I said before Engie's Dispenser exists. This requires a specific scenario to go Cap's way, with multiple other people to give him a hard time should he attempt this.

Spy is still useless because Cap can hear dead ringer and I don't even think it prevents a oneshot here.

First off, I don't necessarily think Spy is totally useless unlike what others may think. In a direct fight, sure Spy is pretty ******. However simply being a distraction for even a few seconds opens him up to other attacks or just allowing BLU team to move in on him quicker. It's not a huge amount of assistance, but it's certainly something. And secondly, yeah even a cursory look at Jacky's previous post shows that they didn't say that Spy wasn't, so you're strawmanning again.

Basically even with unlocks Cap can very easily force the mercs to separate to cover more ground (which they will in character, like with the yeti) and take them out one by one or multiple of them. They also won't figure out that Cap can oneshot everybody here unless they actively tell Medic (assuming he even finds anyone since they don't seem to have any means of radio communication or anything) The teams main wincon here is just Cap ending up in a fight with the majority of them at once with team support from Medic which isn't very likely due to how Cap would likely approach the situation (stealthily and cautiously)

Again this was such an entirely different scenario it's not even funny. The Yeti incident happened in a much larger, and unfamiliar area to the mercs. That's why the Yeti was as successful as it was. 2Fort has way less places to do that in. And to treat Cap doing what you're saying he can just wreck them in setting knowledge, even with a photographic memory is laughable given the sheer amount of time the Mercs have spent here. They're aren't just going to let him force them into that situation. They know what type of battles they're ill-suited for and which ones they're great at. Both 2Fort's general layout and the knowledge of the mercs themselves simply don't allow for the tactics Cap needs to do what you say he can. Once he goes for an attack on a merc, there's a pretty good chance the others will notice there's an issue, and then that precious stealth is lost.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Dropping by to say that I've been lurking around this thread for a bit, and want to simply chime in and say BLU Team FRA.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Bump

Just dropping in once more to say that OP is also entitled to one vote in their thread. So if it takes to long, you can vote to get to grace.

 

[Knifeman29]

Blu team FRA