Cal's Base Sonic CRT

[Emissary_From_Hell]

If Eggman had started the game with all 7 Chaos Emeralds, he'd have alrealdy been fully capable of reaching his endgame. He wouldn't just split the planet in half and then spread the Emeralds around for Sonic and the others to collect while simultaneously trying to build Eggmanland. He'd already be able to build Eggmanland from the start. It's quite clear he split the Earth to cause Chaos so he could then collect the Emeralds and achieve his ultimate goal. If Eggman had all Emeralds from the start, he'd have been way more powerful and capable than he actually was, the idea he had all Emeralds at his posession is pure conjecture. You talk about consistency, DDM, but what you're suggesting is happening in the plot makes zero sense. The Keys that you need to reach the Special Stage aren't even in Eggman's possession.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sometimes his powerful weapons also cause the Emeralds to scatter naturally. And if he kept the Emeralds united, he then Sonic would just need to get to his base and take all of them. Eggman was trying to separate the Emeralds so that the 7 Chaos Emeralds won't be their to restore the planet. SA3 has literally the same plot as Sonic Unleashed about splitting the planet and trying to prevent them from building together.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

@VioletVoid, and I'm not biased against Sonic at all or any verse for that matter. I do my job as an Admin, and I've actually been very friendly to a lot of people. But people legit attack me first and I have every right to be defensive. I really don't need to remind you about that final warning Antvasima gave you.

You know actions speak louder than words right? Based on your actions, you've been heavily involved in trying to downgrade and downplay the verse by any means necessary. Tier 4 Chaos Emeralds, Maginaryworld, Tier 5 Sonic part 1, and now part 2. And even more coming up soon. And sure, you may be friendly (whenever you want to be), but towards Sonic fans? ...Let's just say I'll let that one slide before I get banned for telling the truth. And attacked? Misuse of the definition. You don't look like the kind of guy/girl/it to be attacked. You seem strong headed.

Why even bring up the final warning like it's my kryptonite? I'm fully aware of the final warning. I just don't care because...I just don't. I'm a very chilled dude and everyone else with a blue colored name knows that. Which is why they defended me, and several other Sonic fans, on not getting banned for a year which was a plot to get rid of us so Sonic's verse won't be as protected as it is now by us.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In the words of Shake, let's be kind to one another.

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

At no point is such a scenario stated or even indicated whatsoever, kindly stop making up nonsensical plot points just to make your flimsy narrative work. If Eggman had all the Emeralds in him, he'd actually use them against Sonic as he's been shown to do in multiple occasions.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@DDM The Chaos Energy Cannon didn't split the planet though, it was Dark Gaia who split it. The beam was just to awaken it. It's also a different weapon from the one Eggman used in SA3. Yeah, they both split the planet into 7 pieces but we don't know if the pieces were arranged the same way and how quickly it happened in SA3, which is why it's considered 5-B.

Yeah, legitimate accuracy which is what I want, which is why I'm saying the feat was done by one Emerald. Also that Eggman analogy is not a good one, we've already seen that Eggman has legs, but we don't see any other Chaos Emeralds besides that one onboard Eggman's space station.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Trust me, the life of an Admin/staff member is much harder than the life of a regular user. Second, downplay is a strong word. And I not once called any of you guys "Wankers", sure someone else has called you something worse than that, and not going to say his name, but I don't do that. Also, MaginaryWorld's downgrade was universally justified as Low 2-C. People shout us as staff members, use our names to upload ****, and even give us death threats all the time. And call us a whole bunch of bigoted slur words.

Yes, Dark Gaia absorbed the Chaos Cannon and was empowered by it which was then when he split the planet apart. Also, "Every opportunity", strong word. I defended Low 2-C Darkspine Sonic when someone tried to downgrade him. And Weekly once tried to downgrade base Sonic to below High 6-A, which I argued against. And some people tried to argue that Sonic wasn't FTL which I argued against. I'm also okay with Super Sonic having his 2-C high end, which a couple other Admins want to get rid of even that high end; I don't agree with that part either.

It's also, once again never stated or proven that the one Chaos Emerald we see in the cut-scene is the only one. And anyone who's actually played the whole game knows that the plot is indeed legit. Eggman split the planet so he could build his Empire, which is consistent with the intro saying he's using the Chaos Emeralds to build his empire.

 

[Andytrenom]

Can we not make this staff vs regular users? That's the territory this thread appears to be heading in DDM

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was trying to avoid making that. But it was instigated by one of them first and was being on the defensive. Anyway, I needed to make the clarifications, so once again, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Anyway, I agree with that and any future comments that says "Color names" and such I will remove.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It's also, once again never stated or proven that the one Chaos Emerald we see in the cut-scene is the only one. And anyone who's actually played the whole game knows that the plot is indeed legit. Eggman split the planet so he could build his Empire, which is consistent with the intro saying he's using the Chaos Emeralds to build his empire.

That's asking to prove a negative. You are making the claim that Eggman had all 7 Emeralds with him, the burden is on you to prove it and you haven't given sufficient evidence that it should be accepted that Eggman used all 7 Emeralds to split the planet. Eggman split the planet as part of his goal in building Eggmanland, yes he wants the Emeralds but that doesn't mean he had all of them at the time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Shadow, a negative would be something to support a downgrade, and positive is something to prove an upgrade. That's why they're called negatives and positives. There's still no reason to assume that he only has one when the rest of the entire game points to him using all 7. Also, Wikipedia is another source that implies he's experimenting using the Chaos Emeralds. And this source also makes it plural. I'll look into the rest of the game and/or manual if that has an online source.

I know wikis are limited, but some of the other counter intuitive comments have also used other wikis. There's also the fact that it still says, "Chaos Emeralds" and the plot mentions the scattering of the Chaos Emeralds being the cause of the planet's separation.

Also, one of the arguments was counter intuitive. Someone said all the Emeralds are equal in power, then one would one suddenly be implied to be above the other 6 combined? It's just Space-Time manipulation on the planet; it can be reversed with an equally potent space-time warping device. There's not reason for all 7 to be needed to undo if it was all caused by one. And if it was the Master Emerald that reverted it, Cal said that further discredits the power of a single Chaos Emerald.

 

[Andytrenom]

That's not how it works in the slightest

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

DDM, please, that's absurd.

 

[Godhand1999]

Did DDM just use the wikipedia page for Sonic Advance 3's plot to prove one of his points?

That is a certified Bruh Moment.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

I'm still waiting for that scan that stated Ifrit was weakened.

 

[Air_Raid_Malocchio]

If I may interject,The Genesis Waves in Archie are more or less based off the opening to Advance 3.Since Sega/Sonic Team heavily mandated & overlooked the late run of the comics they would definitely have to approve in a footnote that the event would only require a single emerald(they do). We can even the SA3 opening at a different angle & there's clearly only one in that control room.

 

[Genericstickman]

why are you guys talking about Forces in this? The most consistent thing in Forces is that the strength of characters in it are inconsistent

 

[Theuser789]

Why are we even arguing against the SA3 feat when this thread was about the characters scaling to a emerald? And the same arguments against it have already been debunked so this feels pointless right now

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

First it went to downgrading the cast to 5-B baseline and it kinda shifted to the legitimacy of 5-B in general.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Why are we even still talking about Advanced 3? We repeatedly said that the Emeralds vary so all this circling is redundant and pointless. This also isn't crucial to 5-B Sonic just the level of 5-B.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Cal and DDM: Exist

The Sonic Squad:

 

[DMB_1]

"In the words of Shake, let's be kind to one another".

This statement sums up every single Sonic thread with 100 or more posts in the last 6 moths.

Ok, I'm not really the type of guy that likes to criticize other user's behaviour, but this is getting to be a problem. By being hostile to one another, we're never going to reach a damn agreement.

 

[Sera_EX]

This is why I hate Sonic CRTs and don't like responding to these things. I'm only here because Cal asked me to. All I see is petty attempts at one upmanship. Sure, some of DDM's arguments aren't the best, but that doesn't mean he should be clowned as if he's mentally incompetent. It's not about "destroying people" in an argument just to stroke your own ego. It's about providing the most evidence as possible and making a convincing argument. Not this "DDM and Cal just hate Tier 5 Sonic so they should just shut up" crap I'm seeing. That's not how we do things here and I won't tolerate it continuing.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Tbh the negativity in Sonic threads get repetitive.

I disagree for reasons that were stated above, which have yet to be debunked thoroughly with substantiated evidence. It's as easy as that, everybody.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Trust me, the life of an Admin/staff member is much harder than the life of a regular user. Second, downplay is a strong word. And I not once called any of you guys "Wankers", sure someone else has called you something worse than that, and not going to say his name, but I don't do that. Also, MaginaryWorld's downgrade was universally justified as Low 2-C. People shout us as staff members, use our names to upload ****, and even give us death threats all the time. And call us a whole bunch of bigoted slur words.

Idc how hard a staff member's life is. That's not an excuse for your behavior on this site. Downplay is a strong word, but it's the right word to describe your nature to Sonic as a strong verse. You do kinda insult me at times and even on your own time when I'm not around, but yeah Matt is worse. "Universally justified" You just kinda exposed your close-mindedness by saying that. VSBW isn't the entirety of vs debating you know. Again, idc what you go through. People in here have gone through worse or similar stuff. So please stop.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

"Sure, some of DDM's arguments aren't the best, but that doesn't mean he should be clowned as if he's mentally incompetent."

...Uh...Ok...

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Good grief.

 

[Theuser789]

Tbh the negativity in Sonic threads get repetitive.

I disagree for reasons that were stated above, which have yet to be debunked thoroughly with substantiated evidence. It's as easy as that, everybody.

This is pretty much my opinion, so far the arguments against haven't been debunked and all I ser is a long circular argument about SA3 that has nothing to do with the actual thread, and my arguments brought on my first post haven't been debunked

 

[Antvasima]

This is why I hate Sonic CRTs and don't like responding to these things. I'm only here because Cal asked me to. All I see is petty attempts at one upmanship. Sure, some of DDM's arguments aren't the best, but that doesn't mean he should be clowned as if he's mentally incompetent. It's not about "destroying people" in an argument just to stroke your own ego. It's about providing the most evidence as possible and making a convincing argument. Not this "DDM and Cal just hate Tier 5 Sonic so they should just shut up" crap I'm seeing. That's not how we do things here and I won't tolerate it continuing.

Strongly agreed.

Also, Medeus is correct about that the staff have had to endure an awful lot of abuse just for trying to do our jobs of keeping the wiki reasonably stable and reliable and evaluating content revision threads to the best of our abilities. However, we cannot be expected to be perfect at all times.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Ant joins the battle!

Jkjk

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

To stop the non stop aneurysm caused by a blue fictional hedgehog we should just focus on addressing one thing at at time because I noticed that these back and forth argument creates sub arguments which lead to an entirely different argument.The opposition and support should focus on one topic at a time even breaking things up within this CRT.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Derailment. We aren't expecting staff to be perfect, nor has anybody expected it. I'm just trying to keep things civil here, but I'll reiterate what I've said to stay focused here.

Everything in the OP has been debunked, and no meaningful counter-claims have been made to fight against the Anti-downgrade side. It's even been derailed as to the validity of 5-B as a whole, which had nothing to ddo with this thread to begin with. Either somebody that approves of the downgrade substantiates it further with counter-evidence, or this thread canprobably be closed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright. I can focus on this again.

Leaving a counter argument isn't the same thing as being debunked, Shake. Does Shadow using his true power even mean that he uses the raw power of the Emerald while Emerald-less or that he can like, use Chaos Control without them now?

 

[Sera_EX]

I'll talk with DDM and Cal myself since that's the only way civil discussions can go down. And Shake is right in that this has been derailed so I'm closing this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So what do I do later? Do I just make a new one after our convo?