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Calc stacking and Undertale downgrade

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@Azzy: Yes, it is town level.

Also, with regards to Knight Knight's sun feat, I am starting to think that he just formed a miniature sun, and just spammed Hypersonic+ speed fireballs from it. If it was a ray of light, it would have travelled in a straight laser similar to Sans' gasterblasters.

Personally, I would be okay with Hypersonic+ Undertale characters here considering we have Frisk dodging meteors without problems as well as planes zooming around the battlefield and stuff.
 
Except Matt was talking about the FOABs @Azzy

And even then I kinda have a probelm since

A- Its never stated what kind of bomb

B-When the Papyrus calc wasn't considering calc stacking we were fine using the representation on the fight. Now that it isn't, we are disregarding the representation (which would make it way smaller), which is pretty hypocritical just saying (unless I missed someting)
 
@Crazy

KnightKnight almost certainly would have had to make said mini sun, since the sun doesn't fit under the surface of the Earth. No idea what Tier that would be.

@SD

I never said we should disregard representations? In fact, I spent numerous posts talking about why some fights likely utilize basic representations more than others and vice-versa.
 
@Azzy, uh I see, then why are we guessing the bomb rather than calcing the explosions from the battle representation?
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Because there are probably better things to calc, really.
Click to expand...
Yeah thats true

However, guessing should only be used when there is no way to find out, but right now we have a distinct and viable way right in front of us and I believe that should be the route taken instead
 
I'll calculate the miniature sun and post it on a blog soon. Would have to scale the size of the sun from Frisk however (his soul is 1/2 the height of Frisk if I remember).

Edit: Calculation.

Knight Knight creates a miniature sun:

Knight Knight sun
Area of a sphere = 4*(Pi)*(radius^2)

Frisk's height = 1.2m, or 4ft

Frisk's soul = 0.6m = 19.1px

Diameter of the Sun = 33px, or (33/19.1)*0.6 = 1.0366m

Surface Area = 4*(Pi)*(0.5183^2) = 3.376m^2

Temperature of the sun = 5778 K.

Plugging this into the radiation calculator (emissivity = 1 in a black surface), we get a value about...

213351473 J/second. The attack lasts for about 5 seconds.

213351473*5 = 1066757365 J/s, or 0.255 Tons of TNT. Building Level, I think.

Credit to Regicide.
 
While the calc is good, I think it would be a good idea to do energy required to cause nuclear fusion...

According to this [[1]] without gravitational pressure or magnetic fields to support the reaction the minimum temperature required to cause Nuclear fusion would be about 100 million Kelvin...
 
And what makes you say that it is undergoing fusion? What properties were shown that suggest that?

Also, the sun has a much higher temperature near its core but the surface area becomes massively different at that point. Fusion doesn't occur in the entirety of the star itself, just the very small core.
 
What did this turn into, as an Undertale fan, I don't like seeing downgrades to my favorite characters, but they are just and should be put into place accordingly.
 
Crazystarf said:
Use it or not; your choice. Calc pretty much solves the problem in regards to how fast attacks move in Undertale anyways.
Click to expand...
The speed is fine yeah, but you should probably do the Vulkin one too. That'll give higher results.
 
You can't apply meteor speed to attacks that aren't meteors.

As for what speed we use for them, they are ablated so the speed we use is ablation speed aka 2km/s

In regards to the sun calc, why use emissitivity when you can use MC delta T? The average density of the sun is easy to figure out and then you can just assume air instead.

For example,

Density of sun = 1.989 x 10^30 kg/1.41 x 10^27 m^3 = 1410.638 kg/m^3

Volume of mini sun = (4/3)(pi)(1.0366m/2)^3 = 0.5832 m^3; Mass conversion = 822.712 kg

Using 2 million celsius for the temperature (it drops to this about 70% of the radius away from the core).

E = (822.712kg)(1001J/kg)(~2,000,000K) = 1.647 x 10^12 joules = MCB
 
Ah, for one, or for the total meteors that he sent out?

Right, let's calculate this.

Meteor
13px = 0.6m

11.4px = (0.6*(11.4/13)) = 0.53m

Mass = Volume*Density = (0.078m^3)*(2650kg/m^3) = 206.7kg

KE = 0.5mv^2 = 0.5*(206.7kg)*((3000m/s)^2) = .222 Tons of TNT Building level.
 
As for what speed we use for them, they are ablated so the speed we use is ablation speed aka 2km/s

They aren't ablated, that's fire around a square-ish meteor. Your Sun calc looks good though. So basically it's consistent MCB and MHS?
 
The sun calc looks okay to me, but considering this was Regicide's idea with calculating the sun and not mine.....

Also, I will edit the meteor speed to 2-4 km/s. Averaging this to around 3km/s.

Edit: Corrected the calculation. MCB Papyrus it is. Let's also go with your calculation with the sun as well. Can you do a revision on Primal Groudon's Sun calculation as well?
 
Well it's not like you are wrong to do that but the thing is that the sun only acts as a black body because the core is in fact radiating heat out to the outer surface of the star, which results in the surface temperature being much lower (and thus the energy radiated from the body to be much lower) than what can be expected from the core temperature. In effect, the core "fuels" the radiation of heat from the sun's surface. This is why it can act as a black body (aka at a constant temperature).

In this case, the "mini-sun" disperses within seconds, which sorta means it has no internal "fuel source." What this implies is that the "mini-sun" cannot be assumed to be at a constant temperature and in fact that being present in the environment causes its temperature to go down immediately and significantly, even on a second by second basis.
 
The Papyrus thing is still calc stacking Crazy, you're using speed from a different feat to find a multiplier and then stacking it with a different feat to find speed and KE
 
Then perhaps that rule should be changed considering that we need something to scale the speed of characters from. The only other choice is to use game mechanics to find how quickly the object moves from one end to the other end of the screen.

Edit: We know how many times slower Frisk views incoming objects in the game comparison to us, so let's just leave it at that.
 
Crazystarf said:
Then perhaps that rule should be changed considering that we need something to scale the speed of characters from. The only other choice is to use game mechanics to find how quickly the object moves from one end to the other end of the screen.
Edit: We know how many times slower Frisk views incoming objects in the game comparison to us, so let's just leave it at that.
Click to expand...
Speed itself isn't the problem, though. The problem is finding a speed feat in which the KE can be properly found in order to get an actual AP value.
 
Well we could still try calcing tsunderplane's jets flying at you at MHS speed, since they can appear at the same time as Vulkin's lightning iirc, or does the moon thing move at the same time as the meteors? We could possibly calc that, although it probably wouldn't get too good a result
 
Maybe we just need to give up on try to put a value on Papyrus and just scale him from other characters?
 
I did some calculations above, and perhaps the Papyrus calculation that I did can give a better perspective of Frisk's and Papyrus' speed?

With this calculation, Papyrus' bones were moving around Mach 8.85, and with Frisk's speed being comparable to that.
 
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