• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Calc stacking and Undertale downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
@Crazy

Doesn't that compare speed from Knight Knight's battle to Papyrus' battle? If it were that easy, I don't think we'd be having this discussion in the first place, since we could just apply Nap's relativistic values and be done with it. However, we need a speed feat that generates KE on its own in a contained manner (and doesn't rely on other battles or characters). Doesn't need to match up to Nap's speed feat, as we're not looking for speed. Just trying to see if we can use speed to get AP on certain feats.
 
The number for Frisk's perception is basically constant throughout the game, meaning that the value is a constant (will not change throughout the entire game).

Being that this value is constant throughout the game, you can literally scale the speed everything using this value and it will not result in absurd results. I will prove this again for all characters in a different calc if necessary.

Edit: my main point is that we are assuming calc stacking because an assumed value was used without proof of where the value was obtained. However in my calc, we obtained a specific value from a different value that comes from reliable source (meteor speed). It is similar to a math problem where you have to calculate a bunch of unknown values from your given values.
 
No, they are right Crazystarf. We don't apply speeds that aren't directly about the object. There is no scaling in regards to speed in calcs.
 
The number for Frisk's perception is basically constant throughout the game, meaning that the value is a constant (will not change throughout the entire game).

It is not, sometimes bullets are very fast compared to you, sometimes lightning is very fast to you. Sometimes sweat is comparative to your speed. Plus this is still calc-stacking.

Edit: my main point is that we are assuming calc stacking because an assumed value was used without proof of where the value was obtained.

No, calc-stacking is literally just whenever you use a previously calculated result to gain another one that isn't just "they were Mach 78 in this frame and running into someone at that speed is [this] many joules" within the same scene.
 
Perhaps we can use the game mechanics to find the speed of various objects moving then? We can find the speed depending on the time it took for an object to reach Frisk. However, this brings us the issue of Sans' gasterblasters.

Also, I would like the feat where naps moved at relativistic speeds, on video if necessary.

If you guys are willing to keep this topic in an endless loop, go right ahead. Personally, I think we could have ended this discussion based on the speed of the meteorite and scaling the characters from it.
 
Nah we couldn't. That wouldn't have resolved the core issue of the problem. Otherwise, the discussion wouldn't happen in the first place.
 
There isn't a video, @starf. It's a quote from Napsta himself after the Pacifist route, saying he was "left out" of Flowey's absorption light because he closed the blinds when he saw it envelop the snails on his farm and knock on his door.
 
So, just so that I understand right, the primary problem with the KE calc is that it assumes a speed within a given range rather than use a specific, calculated value?
 
ThePerpetual said:
So, just so that I understand right, the primary problem with the KE calc is that it assumes a speed within a given range rather than use a specific, calculated value?
Click to expand...
Which calc? Nap's or Pap's? We can't use Papyrus' due to it being calc stacking and Napstablook's would be difficult to use because, while it essentially gives us a good idea of his speed and what it is at the very least, lacking a more specific value makes it harder to accurately calculate, meaning the feat works better as a gauge for speed than AP via KE.
 
The feat with Napstablook closing his blinds states that he closed the blinds after it had enveloped the snails. I have no idea why a beam of light would knock on someone's door, but it seems that Flowey's absorption light works more like a flashlight that is aimed towards a specific area instead of something that radiates towards its surroundings.

The statement is also extremely vague in description, and also without a video showing, can be taken entirely out of context in regrds to what happened.

So I heavily disagree with the fact that napstablook (one of the weakest monsters in the game) reacted to Flowey's beam of light. Even if he did, it would be an outlier as it heavily contrasts the speed feats that other characters did and thus, should not be used as a valid feat.
 
I am with Crazy on that. Napstablook's "Feat" is weird, vague and likely an Outlier.

I think they should be lightning-fast at most.
 
@Matt: I'm not even sure if the feat is lightning fast. Personally, I am leaning towards the thought that Flowey started to rotate his head towards napstablook, and napstablook noticed Flowey's head (the light was flashing from Flowey's face most likely) rotating towards him.
 
Crazystarf said:
@Matt: I'm not even sure if the feat is lightning fast. Personally, I am leaning towards the thought that Flowey started to rotate his head towards napstablook, and napstablook noticed Flowey's head (the light was flashing from Flowey's face most likely) rotating towards him.
Click to expand...
I think that Flowey just illuminated the whole Underground in a flash of light, considering it all happened in a matter of seconds, rotating his head would take too long for it to spread throughout the Underground. It also never showed him doing that, it was just a flash of light and then Asriel appeared, that's it.

Though I agree with the Napstablook thing being an Outlier and being too vague.
 
It would still take a very short amount of time for it to cover the whole Underground, the minute the screen went white it was only a few moments for Asriel to show up (meaning it covered the whole Underground in that timeframe in order to absorb all the monster souls).
 
While I personally accept the Napstablook feat, covering the whole underground (assuming the entirety of theunderground spans the full circufrence right under the earth) would've taken a seventh of a second instead of a few seconds
 
The real cal howard said:
While I personally accept the Napstablook feat, covering the whole underground (assuming the entirety of theunderground spans the full circufrence right under the earth) would've taken a seventh of a second instead of a few seconds
Click to expand...
That's kind of a problem considering the Underground is explicity stated at the beginning of the game to be under Mount Ebott only. Also the Barrier is a sphere so yeah, no chance of it being beyond the borders of Mount Ebott :p
 
Well, Undertale right now is sitting at MCB AP and Durability with MHS speed at best for this revision. Excluding the God Tiers of course. Anyone tried calcing Vulkin's lightning to get the speed for everyone in Undertale?
 
Also, can anyone calc the speed for Sans' Gasterblasters? Then we can scale to them Frisk/Chara who dodge them and scale to the rest of the Monsters.
 
I can calculate the speed of the gasterblasters, but that would be calc stacking.

Perhaps I can compare the speed of gasterblasters with Vulkin's lightning however.
 
since all Undertale characters posses determination to some extent, and we know from Frisk that determination can give speed increases as well as other stuff, it could be that napstablook being relativistic for a short period of time could be used as showing that monsters equivalent to or more powerful than napstablook are capable of achieving that level of used soul power and speed in a small time frame. This would work with our current understanding of soul power and determination and explain why other speed feets seem not as fast. my proposition is that we give Monsters three speeds based on how fast they seem to move normally, how fast they seem to move in battles usually (MHS), and speeds from a determination based adrenalin rush that we know they are capable of due to napstablook (relativistic).
 
By God, around 300 or so comments and we STILL haven't found an accurate way to measure the Undertale Low and High Tiers. At least one where most of us agree to.
 
This is all a bad dream

Flowey: And you're never waking up! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (ha's continued on the next page) lol
 
MarvelFanatic119 said:
I know and it's like a nightmare with no end in sight. :(
Click to expand...
The hilarious thing is how backwards it is compared to most other verses. In Undertale, the god tiers have pretty explicit feats while everyone else has to be based on what little we have. lol
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The hilarious thing is how backwards it is compared to most other verses. In Undertale, the god tiers have pretty explicit feats while everyone else has to be based on what little we have. lol
Click to expand...
The irony of it all. XD
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

StrymULTRA
  • Locked
Undertale: Minor LS downgrade and Asriel intelligence update
2 3
Replies
97
Views
3K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
TheOrangeGuy09
  • Locked
Undertale MHS+ (Part 2)
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
Antvasima
Antvasima
StrymULTRA
  • Locked
Undertale: 8-B, Class M, and more!
2
Replies
55
Views
4K
Propellus
Propellus
KingNanaya
Question about calcs and calc stacking
Replies
12
Views
2K
KingNanaya
KingNanaya
DimeUhDozen
Relativistic and 9-A Inside Job
Replies
0
Views
441
DimeUhDozen
DimeUhDozen
Back
Top