Caine vs Vivec Redux But Hopefully People Behave This Time

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Has Vivec every acted whilst erased? Erased on a 1-A level>"Waking up from the timeless world of the Gods when I die".

Ok but can you prove that? Especially if the Aurbris is considered infinite-dimensional on this wiki. Not sure how you're going to get CHIM to Hypnos level.

 

[Asriel77]

Has Vivec every acted whilst erased? Erased on a 1-A level>"Waking up from the timeless world of the Gods when I die".
Ok but can you prove that? Especially if the Aurbris is considered infinite-dimensional on this wiki. Not sure how you're going to get CHIM to Hypnos level.

its agreed vivec does have resistance to tier 0 erasure called zero summing. lol. in order to obtain chim it means u go through the process of the godheads zero sum while also somehow being able to obtain ur iduvisuality

 

[Asriel77]

although i feel like having a seperate key for vivec is massively stupid if he can go chim into any key that just makes him 1-A automatically.

 

[Asriel77]

but yes since vivec has to go through zero summing regardless i hope that answers ur question emperor

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Tier 0 means nothing. Tier 1-As can exceed Tier 0s. Nyarlethotep>DC Writer. And the extent of Tier 0 in TES is a few transcendences above baseline 1-A from my understanding. Tier 0 is just supreme being in the verse where there are Tier 1-As. So like exceeding them to a high degree.

 

[Udlmaster]

1. Okay, so it is a 1-A, well done, you shot yourself in the foot.

2. Repeat a baseless point as much as you want, it doesn't make it true, and I didn't bring up "he can't act" as point 2, Caine has passive Power Nullification, you're just too put you're own 'to bother to read what people put.

3. No, they're not, Ultima said they're baseline, and the arguments I've heard and seen are even partly valid are infinite Transcendences, which doesn't compare to the Dot system, which is Aleph 2 to Epsilon null Transcendences above 1-A.

4. No one has proven Narratice Erasure resistance, so this point is mute.

5. He can't go into CHIM in any key, I've already addressed this, this is ad nausuem now.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I am responding because the people here have invoked the name of Reinhard in a comparasion and I feel the need to clarify, this will be my only talking point in this discussion:


Reinhard in his 3-A key has just underdone the opening of all 8 Swastikas Seals and the second part of the Transmutation of Gold.

And in that key, Reinhard is passively emanating his Hadou Law (a 1-A Law) that will devor all - everything and anything - and because Reinhard has went through that ceremony, Reinhard's Law starts to grow to overwrite the law of the old world (Mercurius), so that Reinhard can face the Godhead (Mercurius) in battle, or any other Hadou God (like Ren).

That's why Reinhard has the, "will grow to 1-A in a short amount of time" - but Reinhard's growth IS NOT why he is the strongest 3-A, he is the strongest 3-A because of his Hegemony (his Hadou Law) emanating from his being that will "devor" anyone that tries and fights him, he possesses a 1-A weapon, and has 1-A immortality.


With that being said, I must specify that transforming into a higher tier does not equate to being the strongest being in that lower tier, the proof being that you need to transfom into a higher state of being to contest with your opponent. So Vivec undergoing CHIM shouldn't be a vaild argument as to why he should be able to beat Caine.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

This is a stomp then as Vivec has zero win conditions but it's fine for the purposes of the top 5 thread.

 

[Udlmaster]

This is a stomp then as Vivec has zero win conditions but it's fine for the purposes of the top 5 thread.

It's what I said before the thread was created

 

[RM97]

Reinhard vs Caine when? OvO

 

[Udlmaster]

Reinhard vs Caine when? OvO

That can stay dead in the water.

 

[A_random_user15]

Reinhard vs Caine when? OvO

Reinhard would win because he is much more handsome.

 

[Zhepar]

I agree that caine win but just to clarify, chim is not baseline 1-A since Matthew said in AKA vs Father Time "

There are potentially trillions if not infinite Original Spirits who themselves are not just "Dude with 1-A power", they are very much boundless, shapeless, platonic beings to whom the very word "being" hardly applies. I don't think they're even beings one could fight directly like some 1-As do.

Aka and Lorkhan influenced and limited all Et'Ada with their power." and chim users are comparable to AKA or Lorkhan

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He's prolly just saying because they're "shapeless" and "boundless" that they're harder to interact with. They're like half formed metaphors, and urges etc and they're hardly "beings" but that doesn't make sense because 1-A interact with this stuff already. Also Lorkhan bullied most of the OG Spirits so I don't see how they're hard to interact with.

 

[Zhepar]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2414187, no he says they are not baseline

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

...I didn't call them baseline. I'm talking about him saying they're harder to interact with for other 1-A characters. "Cannot fight directly".

 

[Udlmaster]

If we assume he's infinitely above Baseline 1-A or has Infinite Transcendences, that's not even equal to the Dots, which are at least Aleph 2 to Epsilon Null

 

[Udlmaster]

Grace finished 3 days ago so, if you have questions you can go to the WoD discussion thread.

 

[Twellas]

Ok, i have some questions that do relate to Vivec but not particuloarly to this fight, i don't know if they can be classified as "out of topic" but they are literally consuming me, i simply MUST know the answers. I get why the members of the Tribunal would have the same abilities as the Daedra, since in "The Anticipations" it's stated that "The Daedra are powerful ancestral spirits similar in form and substance to the Tribunal", but my gripe is that from Sotha Sil's profile i can gather that one of if not THE main reason for the True Godly being there is scaling from Azura's Regenerationn feat after being, and i quote, "completely destroyed by Vivec after he had tapped into CHIM" in "The Trial of Vivec".

The problem is that in that text, the words "erasure" or "destruction" are never used, all we know is a very vague statement about Azura "exploding", outside of that, Vivec himself talks about "Banishing her from this starry heart" and at the very end we are told that " Vivec uses his own trial in order to BIND and BANISH the Prince of Dusk and Dawn".

My question is: Am i missing something? Is there proof of Azura being erased that i just missed? Do Vivec and Sotha scale to other true godly feats?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Vivec is a higher degree of 1-A
His True Godly still applies here

Just dropping in to say - if there's interactions between 1-A abilities this shouldn't be added, for the same reasons we don't add 1-A matches. Given our current definition of 1-A "higher degree of 1-A" isn't a thing that translates between verses, it's only something we define within a singular verse. It's why there's functionally no difference between Tier 0 and Tier 1-A between different verses.

Discussion is fine, though.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Vivec is a higher degree of 1-A
His True Godly still applies here

Just dropping in to say - if there's interactions between 1-A abilities this shouldn't be added, for the same reasons we don't add 1-A matches. Given our current definition of 1-A "higher degree of 1-A" isn't a thing that translates between verses, it's only something we define within a singular verse. It's why there's functionally no difference between Tier 0 and Tier 1-A between different verses.
Discussion is fine, though.

you dont have to worry this wont get added

 

[ShivaShakti]

All this goddamn arguing...

And no out come. Jesus ******* christ this was a worthless thread. Erase my memories.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

All this goddamn arguing...
And no out come. Jesus ******* christ this was a worthless thread. Erase my memories.

IT CANNOT BE UNSEEN

 

[Hykuu]

Vivec negs cus I am bias against udl hurhur

 

[Udlmaster]

All this goddamn arguing...
And no out come. Jesus ******* christ this was a worthless thread. Erase my memories.

I told you all this was pointless but you had to go and waste everyone's time

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Should I uh, just close this or nah

 

[Udlmaster]

Yes, on the basis Vivec lost and on the basis this is a completed thread.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Hocus pocus, frizzle dee do, I'm forgetting this thread and I hope y'all too.