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Byakuya VS Itachi

Wrath Of Itachi said:
Itachis mind hax is far superior to anythig shown in bleach. Also itachi can see him with the sharingan.
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Is there any solid feats for this. Because if not this is a mismatch.

Byakuya would be invisible by normal standards and if you make it so he's visible, Itachi uses genjutsu although he does have feats of resisting Mind Manip on several occasions.
 
Then this is a mismatch. We don't know how Itachi will react to just seeing a silhouette but no person, alongside Byakuya having some feats against several Mind Manip users (The Love, Book of The End, and later on the Fear, specifically tartarforas).
 
The Fear which was able to affect a battalion of soul reapers at once. There's also Book of The End which can even affect non sentient things and after their under their control, can break the minds of multiple people under it's effects at will. We never saw how many people PePe's the love affected at once.
 
How many were in the battalion? The number of people affected is the only thing that matters, that's how mind manipulation potency is treated on this wiki.
 
That said which Itachi is this? Terminal? Edo Tensei? Because if it's edo tensei, Byakuya's only win con is either Konso or Sealing Kido. Making this more of a mismatch.
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
How many were in the battalion? The number of people affected is the only thing that matters, that's how mind manipulation potency is treated on this wiki.
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As far as we saw, he had about 7 people when he appeared and was subsequently getting ready to use it on the remainder of the battalion. It's more than likely doesn't scale to Tsukuyomi, but it is a fair bit above his normal genjutsu as he specifically used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, not basic genjutsu. IIrc the only person basic genjutsu worked on was Naruto against Yura Itachi and Orochimaru when tried to yeet his eyes.
 
Itachi via genjutsu. Basic genjutsu affected 600 plus people without and basic genin that was not Naruto could resist it. Itachi easily used genjutsu on sharingan Kakashi who could resist 600 plus people being genjutsued without his sharingan.
 
Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, not Basic Genjutsu. Not only that not all genjutsu is equal. As I've already said Tsukuyomi is above the fear but not his basic genjutsu because we've literally only seen it affect 2 people successfully. Orochimaru and Naruto. And again which Itachi is this?

EDIT: That said Basic, isn't the right word for it, Generic is more the proper term. Basic makes it seem as if it's an easy genjustu to cast for anyone that can use genjutsu. For example, Sarada's generic genjustu would be beyond garbage compared to her uncles.
 
Yeah not all genjutsu is equal tsukuyomi is waay above any basic genjutsu. Its only issue is is range. We know this, because basic genjutsu < sharingan genjutsu< MS genjutsu.

Attempting to say that tsukuyomi is below basic genjutsu is just straight up downplay to another level. And again we know this because kakashi was unaffected by basic genjutsu without his sharingan which protects against genjutsu, and yet with his sharingan was easily taken down by Itachi.

It does not mater which Itachi this is, all of them would do the same thing, only difference is terminal Itachi would be more tired afterwards which wont affect the battle.
 
Attempting to say that tsukuyomi is below basic genjutsu is just straight up downplay to another level

When the hell did I say this? I literally said it was above the fear.

It does not mater which Itachi this is, all of them would do the same thing, only difference is terminal Itachi would be more tired afterwards which wont affect the battle.

No they wouldn't. Itachi wouldn't lead with Tsukuyomi at all because he knows the risks with it unless he's an Edo he'd use generic genjutsu, in which again Byakuya's only win con is either sealing kido or Konso if he's an Edo.
 
. As I've already said Tsukuyomi is above the fear but not his basic genjutsu because we've literally only seen it affect 2 people successfully. Orochimaru and Naruto.

^ this is what I said. I never said Tsukuyomi was below basic genjutsu.
 
Hst master said:
When the hell did I say this? I literally said it was above the fear.

No they wouldn't. Itachi wouldn't lead with Tsukuyomi at all because he knows the risks with it unless he's an Edo he'd use generic genjutsu, in which again Byakuya's only win con is either sealing kido or Konso if he's an Edo.
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And implied it was below basic genjutsu which is is not. It is above it.

No, he would, he always did, against Kakashi and against Sasuke, And Itachi's basic genjutsu is still above most basic genjutsu anyway since against it beats people that resisted basic genjutsu.
 
Hst master said:
. As I've already said Tsukuyomi is above the fear but not his basic genjutsu because we've literally only seen it affect 2 people successfully. Orochimaru and Naruto.^ this is what I said. I never said Tsukuyomi was below basic genjutsu.
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His basic genjutsu has affected people unaffected by 600 plus basic genjutsu too, unless you are saying Orochimaru could not resist what shikamaru could. He as also reversed genjutsu on kurenai a genjutsu expert, who can def resist what shikamaru did. So his basic genjutsu is still above 600 plus people.
 
And implied it was below basic genjutsu which is is not. It is above it.

You're misreading it. I said it's above the fear but basic genjutsu is not. And yes I do not consider Kabuto's Sleep Genjustu generic genjustu.

No, he would, he always did, against Kakashi and against Sasuke, And Itachi's basic genjutsu is still above most basic genjutsu anyway since against it beats people that resisted basic genjutsu.

No he didn't. He had a short scuffle before using it against Kakashi and never used it against Kurenai. He purposely used it against sasuke to toy with him and yet remarked he knows he shouldn't had. His clone promptly uses generic genjustu on Naruto. When Orochimaru attacks him he uses generic genjustu. He uses gg to beat Deidara as well. And he doesn't even start off when he's a Edo against Naruto and uses Izanami against Kabuto before he shuts his vision off. His second fight against Sasuke he traded generic genjustu with him until they fought for a bit and he later used Tsukuyomi. Furthermore he has only used his generic genjutsu on 3 person: Naruto.
 
Hst master said:
You're misreading it. I said it's above the fear but basic genjutsu is not. And yes I do not consider Kabuto's Sleep Genjustu generic genjustu.

No, he would, he always did, against Kakashi and against Sasuke, And Itachi's basic genjutsu is still above most basic genjutsu anyway since against it beats people that resisted basic genjutsu.

No he didn't. He had a short scuffle before using it against Kakashi and never used it against Kurenai. He purposely used it against sasuke to toy with him and yet remarked he knows he shouldn't had. His clone promptly uses generic genjustu on Naruto. When Orochimaru attacks him he uses generic genjustu. He uses gg to beat Deidara as well. And he doesn't even start off when he's a Edo against Naruto and uses Izanami against Kabuto before he shuts his vision off. His second fight against Sasuke he traded generic genjustu with him until they fought for a bit and he later used Tsukuyomi. Furthermore he has only used his generic genjutsu on 3 person: Naruto.
Click to expand...
Kabuto sleep genjutsu is generic genjutsu lmao. It was resisted by literally every genin but naruto, and these same genin get caught by other ninja genjutsu.

Does not matter since he beat kurenai's genjutsu using basic genjutsu and she definitely scales above Kabuto considering Kabuto is not a genjutsu expert like she is.

And Itachi's basic genjutsu would easily scale above The fear anyway.
 
His basic genjutsu has affected people unaffected by 600 plus basic genjutsu too, unless you are saying Orochimaru could not resist what shikamaru could. He as also reversed genjutsu on kurenai a genjutsu expert, who can def resist what shikamaru did. So his basic genjutsu is still above 600 plus people.

Orochimaru was fighting Hiruzen. Not to mention Shikamaru didn't resist it. He was unconscious with Naruto. Furthermore Kurenai easuly escaped her own genjutsu along with not all non sharingan genjutsu being equal.
 
No he was not, lmao the entire point was that he was pretending to be unconscoius because it was a pain and he did not want to fight. Not all sharingan genjutsu are equal but all sharingan genjutsu are above basic genjutsu.

And kurenai did not escpae it easily, not by resisting anyway and him reversing it shows he was a better genjutsu user as we know. Or at least as we should know.
 
Kabuto sleep genjutsu is generic genjutsu lmao. It was resisted by literally every genin but naruto, and these same genin get caught by other ninja genjutsu.

Sakura literally only used the release sign because she saw Kakashi and Guy doing it L M A O. She was even confused the whole time. Not to mention, we rarely see Genjutsu get used on the cast. The last Genjutsu Sakura gets hit with is Sasuke's all the way in the Last arc.

And kurenai did not escpae it easily, not by resisting anyway and him reversing it shows he was a better genjutsu user as we know. Or at least as we should know.

It didn't take her much to get out of it at all, she simply applied slight pain by biting her lip. She even remarked how fast Itachi was when he was fighting Kakashi.

And Itachi's basic genjutsu would easily scale above The fear anyway.

Proof?
 
Hst master said:
Sakura literally only used the release sign because she saw Kakashi and Guy doing it L M A O. She was even confused the whole time. Not to mention, we rarely see Genjutsu get used on the cast. The last Genjutsu Sakura gets hit with is Sasuke's all the way in the Last arc.

It didn't take her much to get out of it at all, she simply applied slight pain by biting her lip. She even remarked how fast Itachi was.

Proof?
Click to expand...
We rarely see it but we see it enough to determine that Kabuto's was not that strong shikamaru was affected by tayuya's genjutsu and could do nothing about it, yet easily broke out of kabuto's.

Yeah and my point is it took nothing for Itachi to reverse is thus Itachi > kurenai using basic genjutsu.

Itachi basic genjutsu > kurenai genjutsu expert > Kabuto sleep genutsu = 600 plus people > The fear about 7 maybe more as per your words.

Thus Itachi basic genjutsu > The fear.
 
We rarely see it but we see it enough to determine that Kabuto's was not that strong shikamaru was affected by tayuya's genjutsu and could do nothing about it, yet easily broke out of kabuto's.

.....So was Itachi and Sasuke. When they fought Kabuto. Their only way out of it was using Genjutsu on each other.

Yeah and my point is it took nothing for Itachi to reverse is thus Itachi > kurenai using basic genjutsu.

Except he didn't use his? He explicitly reflected hers which she escaped without a hassle.
 
Hst master said:
.....So was Itachi and Sasuke. When they fought Kabuto. Their only way out of it was using Genjutsu on each other.

Except he didn't use his? He explicitly reflected hers which she escaped without a hassle.
Click to expand...
That was a much stronger Kabuto dont know why you are comparing him to regular Kabuto who did the sleep genjutsu.

To reflect a genjutsu you would have to be at least on its level.
 
That was a much stronger Kabuto dont know why you are comparing him to regular Kabuto who did the sleep genjutsu.

Physical strength doesn't matter when dealing with Genjutsu, you know this. Alongside he never implied or said he did anything to improve upon the sound fours abilities.

To reflect a genjutsu you would have to be at least on its level.

Not really. Look at Sakura. She can't use Genjutsu to save her life but she could release feather illusion, with some heavy help at noticing it.
 
Hst master said:
Physical strength doesn't matter when dealing with Genjutsu, you know this. Alongside he never implied or said he did anything to improve upon the sound fours abilities.

Not really. Look at Sakura. She can't use Genjutsu to save her life but she could release feather illusion, with some heavy help at noticing it.
Click to expand...
All his abilities improve since he is using sage chakra and sage chakra>>>>>>>>>regular chakra so yes his abilities were improved.

Sakura was actually going to be a genjutsu expert as per Kakashi's words remarking on her great talent for it but went on to learn from Tsunade to do medical genjutsu and chakra strengthening instead. So yeah she was pretty good at genjutsu just for the fact that she did not know any actual techniques.
 
All his abilities improve since he is using sage chakra and sage chakra>>>>>>>>>regular chakra so yes his abilities were improved.

Nice Headcanon. There's literally zero mention him enhancing the Sound Ninjas abilities, especially since Sasuke of all people would say something.

Sakura was actually going to be a genjutsu expert as per Kakashi's words remarking on her great talent for it but went on to learn from Tsunade to do medical genjutsu and chakra strengthening instead. So yeah she was pretty good at genjutsu just for the fact that she did not know any actual techniques.

No, she had the potential, I.E. she has no techniques whatsoever but had a easier time dealing with it than her teammates. At most she only knows how to combat it and this is only displayed once.
 
Hst master said:
Nice Headcanon. There's literally zero mention him enhancing the Sound Ninjas abilities, especially since Sasuke of all people would say something.

No, she had the potential, I.E. she has no techniques whatsoever but had a easier time dealing with it than her teammates. At most she only knows how to combat it and this is only displayed once.
Click to expand...
Its not headcanon it is how we know sage chakra works, literally all his abilities from then on uses sage chakra. Why would Sasuke state the obvious? And expecially to Itachi who does not even know much about the sound 4. And why would techniques using his abody be as weak as techniques the sound for used? He can use their abilities it does not mean they are of the same level.

You literally just said what I said. She had the potential thus was comparable to Kabuto who is not a good genjutsu user while kurenai is an expert and Itachi is on her level being able to combat it easily.
 
And we only know he injected himself with their DNA. Along with no improvements shown, it's Headcanon to assume they were caught in it for no other reason than it being Audio based.

No I didn't. I said she knows the sign to release it, but is totally incapable of it herself.
 
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