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Boruto movie upgrades.

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CrossverseCrisis said:
^I know that, but you could have at least be specific as to what Kaguya would be upgraded to. If it was to her ETSB, that would make more sense. If was to her AP, then no cause she would have stomped Naruto and Sasuke in the manga and not lose.
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Thats my bad. I think her ETSB would be 5-B+. A stellar Kaguya would be too weird. But it wouldn't be the first stellar glass canon on this wiki.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abeloth
 
SwordSlayer99

Lol, you do realize that the ETSB calc assumes that Kaguyas parallel dimension is only a planet, then calculates what it would take to blow up the planet.

Kaguya's parallel dimension's were proven to be Stellar in size above, and in this thread. Hence, the ETSB calc is woefully wrong.
 
The central issues here are whether or not Madara should be upgraded to Moon level based on Hagoromo's statement and whether or not Kaguya should be upgraded, are they not? If we upgrade Madara, the main characters should logically follow, shouldn't they, since they fought and defeated him?

That said, I agree with upgrading Madara. I presume Hagoromo is one of those characters who is supposed to be an extremely powerful and wise figure central to the lore of the verse, yes? If that's the case, especially in the absence of outright contradicting circumstances, there is no reason to disregard his words. Frankly, Illuminati's "feats > all" logic I find is completely ignorant of the extremely common use of characters like Hagoromo as exposition devices. Basically, Madara, by his words, was nearly as strong as he was, and from what I could gather, got more upgrades later on, which would seem to point to him at least being an equal to Hagoromo by the end of his run.

As for Kaguya...
 
UncleSpaceman said:
SwordSlayer99
Lol, you do realize that the ETSB calc assumes that Kaguyas parallel dimension is only a planet, then calculates what it would take to blow up the planet.

Kaguya's parallel dimension's were proven to be Stellar in size above, and in this thread. Hence, the ETSB calc is woefully wrong.
Click to expand...
There is a major issue here; the fact that her dimensions are taken as Planet-sized is all that's keeping her consistent with the rest of the verse. There are already issues with scaling the rest of the cast to her; if she turns out to be Star level, almost anything the main characters do to her will have to be taken as an outlier or PIS. She'd end up being a similar case to Magolor or Solaris; rated by her showings, but not scaled to the rest of the verse because the power she displayed was so far above what the rest of the cast should reasonably be capable of that defeating her can only be assumed to be major PIS.
 
Unclechairman said:
The central issues here are whether or not Madara should be upgraded to Moon level based on Hagoromo's statement and whether or not Kaguya should be upgraded, are they not? If we upgrade Madara, the main characters should logically follow, shouldn't they, since they fought and defeated him?
That said, I agree with upgrading Madara. I presume Hagoromo is one of those characters who is supposed to be an extremely powerful and wise figure central to the lore of the verse, yes? If that's the case, especially in the absence of outright contradicting circumstances, there is no reason to disregard his words. Frankly, Illuminati's "feats > all" logic I find is completely ignorant of the extremely common use of characters like Hagoromo as exposition devices. Basically, Madara, by his words, was nearly as strong as he was, and from what I could gather, got more upgrades later on, which would seem to point to him at least being an equal to Hagoromo by the end of his run.

As for Kaguya...
Click to expand...
They didn't defeat him black zetsu did IIRC
 
Unclechairma

  • Momoshiki should be 4-C, as i explained here
  • Hagoromo without the power of the Juubi created the moon on his death bed. Obito said he could destroy the planet with Hagoromo's sword. Prime Hagoromo is quite possibly Planet Level.
  • Hamura should be roughly equal to Hagoromo
With two possible Planet Level characters and one other Stellar Level characters, does Stellar Level Kaguya not fit?
 
I'd like to point out that the difference between Planet level and Star level is quite massive (according to our AP chart, a difference of 18750000 times, to be exact). One does not simply go straight from Planet level to Star level simply from stomping other Planet level characters.

Besides, in your thread, you argued that Kaguya and Momoshiki are Stellar level only through dimension creation/destruction, which implies a power not useful for combat situations. If that's the case, what's the point of this?
 
His Tanking ability should either Stay at Continent Level or Gai's Destructive Capacity should be increased.
 
^If you're referring to Madara well he fought Gai with one rinnegan and no shinju three so how's that relevant?
 
1. Kaguya being 4-C sounds pretty outlandish. So I agree, she should stay as is.

2. Madara should be updated to 5-C based on Hagoromo statement that he was nearing him in power, and the fact that he said that before Madara absorbed the Shinju, retrieved his other rinnegan, and manifested the Sharinnegan. Plus he would have gained a planets worth of chakra from those under infinite tsukuyomi due to shin: jukai koutan, but I guess we'll never know how OP he could have been thanks to Kishi...

3. Idk about Naruto and Sasuke, maybe they can be "High 6-A, possibly 5-C" since essentially they are half of Hagoromo, and are definitely stronger as of the Last and Boruto considering Naruto survived an island level blast in base but idk that's just my two cent.
 
Okay, so to return this to the relevant issues:

We seem to have mostly agreed to list Madara at the same ranking as Hagoromo, which is "At least Moon level" I believe.

The uncertainties arise with the calculation of Hagoromo's feat, which differed greatly depending on the method used, and as such reflects on Naruto's and Sasuke's rankings as well.

In addition, my impression of their durability levels is as considerably lower than their strongest techniques have damage output, so I am uncertain where to place them in this regard?

Also, I am unfamiliar with the relative power levels of their various transformations, and would like to know where we should place their ratings for which forms?

Btw: All further discussion of Kaguya is hereby banned from this thread. We should focus on the issues that will actually lead anywhere.
 
Madara in his Jinchuuriki forms should be listed as 5-C and at least Moon level in attack potency (at least equal to Hagoromo) with at least Continent level durability (Able to survive Eighth Gate Gai's strongest attack)

Naruto and Sasuke should both be listed as high 6-A based on their fights with Madara and Kaguya as both together could fight evenly with Madara and create a Moon together against Kaguya. During their final fight Kurama stated that Sasuke after absorbing all the Biju chakra was at Hagoromo's level though and Naruto was able to match him. If Kurama's statement is accepted then they would both be 5-C and their durability would be Moon level as well as they were each able to tank each other's strongest attack and continue to fight afterwards.
 
We seem to have mostly agreed to list Madara at the same ranking as Hagoromo, which is "At least Moon level" I believe.


^ Alright.


The uncertainties arise with the calculation of Hagoromo's feat, which differed greatly depending on the method used, and as such reflects on Naruto's and Sasuke's rankings as well.


^ That's fine.


In addition, my impression of their durability levels is as considerably lower than their strongest techniques have damage output, so I am uncertain where to place them in this regard?


^ Nah. A battle worn Naruto and Sasuke survived the clash of their strongest techniques.

http://i.imgur.com/rAXnm4q.png

http://i.imgur.com/gmbqFVQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s04u81c.png


Since this is a thread regarding the stats of Naruto characters, there are some other characters who have some noteworthy feats.

Gaara was capable of blocking Momoshiki's attacks with no apparent problem, who is currently Multi Continent Level. He was also able to pressure him with the speed of his sand and Momoshiki is MHS+.

Shikamaru was capable of catching Momoshiki and Kinshiki in his shadow even though the latter was using his full speed to attack Sasuke. He could also easily hold them in place with it. Kinshiki is Continent Level and MHS+

Hinata, Sakura, Sai, and Shikamaru was capable of surviving against Toneri's Silver Wheel Reincarnation Explosion, which was calced at Small Country Level. Here's the technique in use.
 
Well, they were able to tank each other's strongest physical attack, while losing an arm each. If I remember correctly this clash was calculated at far less destructive capacity than their most high-level jutsu. My impression is that physical abilities in the Naruto world tend to contain far less raw power than reality-warping, energy-attacks, or similar.
 
I've never seen a calc for the Indra's Arrow/Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken clash but Naruto used the same attack to destroy Madara's meteors and the attack could be seen from the Fire Country to the Lightning Country. Also Sasuke himself said Indra's Arrow was his strongest attack, and these weren't physical attacks, they were Ninjutsu, energy based attacks. Also they each lost an arm later in the fight actually, not during the clash of their most powerful attacks.
 
Valar Melkor 2 said:
I've never seen a calc for the Indra's Arrow/Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken clash but Naruto used the same attack to destroy Madara's meteors and the attack could be seen from the Fire Country to the Lightning Country. Also Sasuke himself said Indra's Arrow was his strongest attack, and these weren't physical attacks, they were Ninjutsu, energy based attacks. Also they each lost an arm later in the fight actually, not during the clash of their most powerful attacks.
Click to expand...
That's right. Yes they did use their strongest attacks against each other, but it was much later on when Sasuke and Naruto did one final attack with their signiture moves did they lost one of their arms.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, they were able to tank each other's strongest physical attack, while losing an arm each. If I remember correctly this clash was calculated at far less destructive capacity than their most high-level jutsu. My impression is that physical abilities in the Naruto world tend to contain far less raw power than reality-warping, energy-attacks, or similar.
Click to expand...
Dint i alredy explain how durability works on naruto? is the same as saying that whitebeard can get stabed or shoot but he also able to tank an island level attack.
 
Hmm, so essentially their durabilities were down for running out on chakra? However, I don't buy that they had lost focus during their fight, and were injured due to this.
 
An extra question that has turned up in the Kaguya page is where to place her durability?

Given the extreme inconsistencies involved, such as being injured by Sakura, I placed it as "Unknown" for the time being, but this may have been inappropriate.

Please take note that this is the only thing about Kaguya's statistics that we should discuss in this thread.
 
Naruto and Sasuke have attacks enhanced by Senjutsu and Six Paths Chakra that's a weakness for Kaguya/Juubi Jinchuriki. Given the fact that she was taking those attacks pretty well despite that shows that she some very strong durability. Moon Level-Moon Level+ and hard to kill with her immortality and Regenerationn seems okay to me.
 
Okay. Is "At least Moon level (But her durability was portrayed very inconsistently)" acceptable?
 
Going by the above images, I would say that Sakura legitimately managed to harm Kaguya. If not, Sakura would simply have been splattered from the impact.
 
For Kaguyas case senjutsu should be added to her weaknesses.

The only time she was hurt was:

1.Kakashi using kamui raikirii which ignores conventional durability.

2.Naruto with senjutsu her weakness.

3.Sakura but she was caught off guard she came from the byakugans blind spot .
 
Sasuke was only a bit weaker than Naruto in the movie (it was either a misstep or Naruto's abilities were superior to Sasuke's physically, I don't know, nor care, it doesn't stop him from having the Moon rating.

Madara gains the power to rival Sage of Six, k.

Kaguya stays where she is, she's barely relevant anymore since the worst version of Peach Boy came and seems like the far better villain.
 
I mean... his training really shouldn't matter like that, the fact that Naruto wields the full power of his Bijuu at his disposal should be reason enough to why he's powerful. How do you surpass a guy who uses Bijuu Powers + Sage Chakra in tandem. It makes no sense to me, but whatever.

And yes I know Sasuke has a PORTION of a Bijuu's power, and that still makes no sense.
 
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