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Boruto movie upgrades.

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CrossverseCrisis

I hope i can end this pointless arguement.

Biju Sage Mode Naruto is slightly stronger than Toneri. Momoshiki held his own against Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto & Rinnegan Sasuke. Ergo, Momoshiki is vastly stronger than Toneri, so via power-scaling Momoshiki is moon level.

Like Toneri, Momoshiki evantually lost his edge, from the Boruto Novel

"Shockingly, the power inside him that he'd absorbed from Kinshiki which should've been his trump card was insufficient. No, that wasn't it. He had no choice but to acknowledge it. The men in front of his eyes…were strong. If it was one on one, he would be able to keep up."

Ergo, we can establish a power-scale of,

Naruto = Sasuke >= Momoshiki >>>>>>>> Toneri
 
Well, I agree with CrossverseCrisis that everybody should settle down, and stop arguing about the above. I think that Madara is pretty much settled to be placed at Moon level. The central issue is that his profile has the following key:

"Prime Madara | Edo Madara | Revived Madara with Sage Mode | Six Paths Sage Madara | Six Paths Sage Madara (with Shinju absorbed and dual Rinnegan and Rinne Sharingan)"

So, given that I don't remember the specifics particularly well, which forms should be upgraded, and how much?

Similarly, Naruto has the following key:

"Base | Sage Mode | Tailed Beast Transformations | Nine-Tails Chakra Mode/Kurama Chakra Mode| Bijuu Mode | Sage Bijuu Mode | Six Paths Sage Mode | Six Path Sage Tailed Beast Mode | 100% Kurama Bijuu Sage Mode"

The same question applies here.

And Sasuke has this key. In this case I think that only the last three or two would be affected:

"Start | Post-Chunin Exams | Shippuden Start | Hebi Sasuke| Taka Sasuke| EMS Sasuke | Rinnegan Sasuke | Six Paths Susanoo"
 
UncleSpaceman said:
CrossverseCrisis
I hope i can end this pointless arguement.

Biju Sage Mode Naruto is slightly stronger than Toneri. Momoshiki held his own against Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto & Rinnegan Sasuke. Ergo, Momoshiki is vastly stronger than Toneri, so via power-scaling Momoshiki is moon level.

Like Toneri, Momoshiki evantually lost his edge, from the Boruto Novel

"Shockingly, the power inside him that he'd absorbed from Kinshiki which should've been his trump card was insufficient. No, that wasn't it. He had no choice but to acknowledge it. The men in front of his eyes…were strong. If it was one on one, he would be able to keep up."

Ergo, we can establish a power-scale of,

Naruto = Sasuke >= Momoshiki >>>>>>>> Toneri
Click to expand...
Alright then. But it is still the admins decision to see if Naruto and Sasuke should be upgraded or not. Even though what you give me could be used as a possible way to upgrade the two to 5-C(Or maybe it's more of "at least High 6-A, possibly/or likely 5-C").
 
Oh my god, thank you Ant. I'm not going to lie to you here, dude. I almost blew a fuss at these guys ignoring my calling to them to settle down.
 
No problem. However, I am going on a vacation for two weeks later today, and Lord Kavpeny will probably be able to help out first the 7th when his computer is back from repairs.
 
Antvasima said:
No problem. However, I am going on a vacation for two weeks later today, and Lord Kavpeny will probably be able to help out first the 7th when his computer is back from repairs.
Click to expand...
I hope so. I really don't like conflict that goes too far, and trust: i don't take them lightly at all. Just know that if i start cussing here, THAT'S my way of saying "I'm f'ing furious at all this stupitidy and s***".

Anyways, have we ALL come to a decision here or should we try and wait for Kavpeny on what he should say regarding this?
 
Didn't we Naruto and Sasuke down to 6-A because scaling off of Madara? If so, shouldn't scale them off of Madara again?
 
Credible Hulk said:
Didn't we Naruto and Sasuke down to 6-A because scaling off of Madara? If so, shouldn't scale them off of Madara again?
Click to expand...
Apparently it's agreed that we will upgrade Madara to 5-C again due to all the points here presented earlier above. Meaning that considering Naruto and Sasuke are supposed to be around Madara's level or something by EoS plus those two movies, they may also get scaled to him as well.
 
The versions of Madara that should be upgraded are Six Paths Sage Madara (Nearly equal to Hagoromo) and Six Paths Sage Madara With Shinju absorbed and dual Rinnegan and Rinne Sharinga (After already being nearly equal to Hagoromo he gained several new powerups which Hagoromo never had thus placing him above him).
 
Valar Melkor 2 said:
The versions of Madara that should be upgraded are Six Paths Sage Madara (Nearly equal to Hagoromo) and Six Paths Sage Madara With Shinju absorbed and dual Rinnegan and Rinne Sharinga (After already being nearly equal to Hagoromo he gained several new powerups which Hagoromo never had thus placing him above him).
Click to expand...
Pretty much this for Madara.
 
So Kaguya remains unchanged, Madara's reupgraded(again), and Naruto and Sasuke are unchanged?

Also since all 72 volumes of Naruto have officially been translated and the Last has an official release, wouldn't using the Viz translations clear up a bit of the issues that have seemed to come about with trying to find Naruto/Sasuke's standing?
 
Muu0934 said:
So Kaguya remains unchanged, Madara's reupgraded(again), and Naruto and Sasuke are unchanged?
Also since all 72 volumes of Naruto have officially been translated and the Last has an official release, wouldn't using the Viz translations clear up a bit of the issues that have seemed to come about with trying to find Naruto/Sasuke's standing?
Click to expand...
I don't know about that but i really hope it does clear it up. It's up to the admins themselves though that will determine weather we'll use it or not.

Like i said much early on, i also think Naruto & Sasuke could also be reupgraded back to 5-C as well due to supposively being around Madara's level(give or take) by EoS plus the two movies, The Last and Boruto.
 
Madara upgrade and Kaguya staying as it is are unanimous. The only issue pending is whether to scale Sasuke and Naruto as well. This is mostly because Six Paths Naruto and Sasuke required each other's help to defeat Madara, and as such might be tiered as "At least High 6-A, likely 5-C" instead.
 
Well, going by DontTalk's calculation, they would each have to be at least 50 times weaker than Madara to be Multi-Continent level.
 
Lord Kavpeny

Naruto & Sasuke had no real struggle even with Final Form Madara's attacks

  • Madara never significantly injured Naruto or Sasuke
  • Naruto and Sasuke swiftly dealt with Final Form Madara's Chibaku Tensei
  • Naruto's clones easily dealt with Final Form Madara's Limbo Clones
  • Sasuke Susanoo protected them from Infinite Tsukuyomi
  • Multiple times, Madara was impaled, sliced in half, etc, never was it Madara significantly injuring Naruto or Sasuke
  • Naruto & Sasuke easily rescued Sakura, when she ran up to attack Madara
The idea that EOS Naruto & Sasuke are 50 times weaker than Madara is absurd.

  • EOS Naruto & Sasuke are both individually equal to Momoshiki
  • Naruto advanced to the point where Kurama Sage Mode is Multi Continent Level+, Kurama Sage Mode is vastly weaker than Hagoromo
  • In their final fight, both Naruto & Sasuke attained chakra practically equal to Hagoromo
Antvasima

Hagoromo & Hamura fought against Kaguya, who has Moon Level AP, hence Hagoromo should have atleast Moon Level durability. If we are scaling Madara to Hagoromo, then Madara should have Moon Level durability.
 
@Antvasima: Hmm...that is indeed highly unlikely. I guess I support Moon level Naruto and Sasuke.


@UncleSpacema:

UncleSpaceman said:
Lord Kavpeny

In their final fight, both Naruto & Sasuke attained chakra practically equal to Hagoromo.
Click to expand...
Disagree with this statement, given that each one was specifically given one half of Hagoromo's chakra. Also, it's likely that Madara was not going all out against them (Madara has the kind of personality who waits and observes his opponents best moves, even though he probably shouldn't, eg: Might Gai vs Madara), so I wouldn't be so quick to draw the conclusion that Naruto and Sasuke ~ Madara.

That said, I also disagree with them being 50 times weaker than Madara.

UncleSpaceman said:
Antvasima

Hagoromo & Hamura fought against Kaguya, who has Moon Level AP, hence Hagoromo should have atleast Moon Level durability. If we are scaling Madara to Hagoromo, then Madara should have Moon Level durability.
Click to expand...
Hagoromo's durability should not be drawn from Kaguya's AP, since Kaguya fought Hagoromo and Hamura as the Juubi. It is often shown, that due to being berserkers, Bijuu are often unable to focus their destructive energies on shinobi with far lower durability (eg: Base Minato vs Kyuubi).
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
I'd say a possible moon Level rating is better, as character statement's aren't enough for an update
Click to expand...
... Points to Cell's profile...

... Points to all the Planet Level LOZ profiles...
 
... Points to Cell's profile...

... Points to all the Planet Level LOZ profiles...

Which is backed up by multiple canon guidebooks, were as narutos dosen't
 
that's not how proving something works @Pietro, you have to prove that they are 50x weaker than madara.
 
LordAizenSama said:
that's not how proving something works @Pietro, you have to prove that they are 50x weaker than madara.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they aren't, i'm saying we need more evidence then just a mere character statment to upgrade narudo and sauce
 
I second what LordAizenSama said, but,

  • Naruto and Sasuke were easily handling everything Madara through at them. So them being 50x weaker than Madara is absurd
  • Naruto and Sasuke were stated to be practically equal to Hagoromo
  • Naruto and Sasuke are both individually equal to Momoshiki, the reason Kaguya created her White Zetsu army.
 
LordAizenSama said:
I mean.. Theres no way you can be 50x weaker and put up a decent fight.
Click to expand...
I don't remeber them putting up a good fight If that's true,use a possible moon level rating instead, as a outright moon level rating would cause confusion and controversty
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
LordAizenSama said:
that's not how proving something works @Pietro, you have to prove that they are 50x weaker than madara.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they aren't, i'm saying we need more evidence then just a mere character statment to upgrade narudo and sauce
Click to expand...
I suppose you then support down-grading Cell?
 
@Pietro Maximoff

Please calm down.

You do have a point: Naruto's and Sasuke's level compared to Madara is not set in stone.

However, while we do not often utilize speculation, common sense is an analysis tool as good as any, and common sense dictates that it would be impossible for Naruto and Sasuke to fight with Madara as evenly as they were fighting if they were indded at least 50X weaker than him.

As such, I'm afraid the burden of proof in this instance is on your shoulders (aka, proving Naruto and Sasuke were indeed at least 50x weaker).
 
I'm not saying they aren't, i'm saying we need more evidence then just a mere character statment to upgrade narudo and sauce
I suppose you then support down-grading Cell?

Cells statement is backup by multiple guidebooks(That were dissced to be canon)
 
Biju Sage Mode Naruto is slightly stronger than Toneri. Momoshiki held his own against Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto & Rinnegan Sasuke. Ergo, Momoshiki is vastly stronger than Toneri, so via power-scaling Momoshiki is moon level.

Like Toneri, Momoshiki evantually lost his edge, from the Boruto Novel

"Shockingly, the power inside him that he'd absorbed from Kinshiki which should've been his trump card was insufficient. No, that wasn't it. He had no choice but to acknowledge it. The men in front of his eyes…were strong. If it was one on one, he would be able to keep up."

Ergo, we can establish a power-scale of,

Naruto = Sasuke >= Momoshiki >>>>>>>> Toneri
 
Lord Kavpeny said:
@Pietro Maximoff

Please calm down.

You do have a point: Naruto's and Sasuke's level compared to Madara is not set in stone.

However, while we do not often utilize speculation, common sense is an analysis tool as good as any, and common sense dictates that it would be impossible for Naruto and Sasuke to fight with Madara as evenly as they were fighting if they were indded at least 50X weaker than him.

As such, I'm afraid the burden of proof in this instance is on your shoulders (aka, proving Naruto and Sasuke were indeed at least 50x weaker).
Click to expand...
Hmm, if you look at davy's agrumeent with Non-Bais, you should see ypur answer
 
Look, I'm not saying Naruto and Sauce are 50x weaker or stronger then madara, I'm saying we need more proof then mere character statement for an upgrad. That's why I'm saying it's better for an Possible or likely moon Level rating instead, because Neither Nardo nor Sauce have any feats that put them on the SO6P level...
 
UncleSpaceman said:
Biju Sage Mode Naruto is slightly stronger than Toneri. Momoshiki held his own against Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto & Rinnegan Sasuke. Ergo, Momoshiki is vastly stronger than Toneri, so via power-scaling Momoshiki is moon level.

Like Toneri, Momoshiki evantually lost his edge, from the Boruto Novel

"Shockingly, the power inside him that he'd absorbed from Kinshiki which should've been his trump card was insufficient. No, that wasn't it. He had no choice but to acknowledge it. The men in front of his eyes…were strong. If it was one on one, he would be able to keep up."

Ergo, we can establish a power-scale of,

Naruto = Sasuke >= Momoshiki >>>>>>>> Toneri
Click to expand...
Naruto novels are non-canon
 
Antvasima Lord Kavpeny

Before anything else Narutos Key is wrong in the last he didnt use 100% kyuubi bijuu sage mode he released kyuubi to fight hamuras statue what he actually uses is kyuubi chakra sage mode since he only borrowed chakra from kyuubi.


Anyways besides all that as for naruto and sasuke ill state some reasoning:

As Ant said half of moon level is moon level.

Kaguya's sons inherited Yang(Hagoromo) and Ying(Hamura) from her and defeated Juubi and it was sealed inside hagoromo .

Hagoromo being the jinchuriki gained the second half that his brother hamura gained from kaguya (Ying) hence being able to perform six paths chibaku tensei(Yang-Ying) alone now.

Naruto and sasuke both resprent Yang-Ying however theyre much weaker than hagoromo and hamura since theyre not direct descendants of Kaguya obviously.

When Naruto and Sasuke gain Hagoromos power however they reach the level of what hagoromo and hamura were due to their sheer inheritence both have the seals the sun and the moon .

Them combining theyre seals and perfoming six paths chibaku tensei as solid proof of that.

In their last fight naruto and sasuke both utilize all 9 tailed beast naruto doing it in a lower scale due to only having small amounts of their chakra.

Sasuke uses chakra from all bijuu at once.

And then you may ask why didnt sasuke gain another rinnegan or form?

Sasuke doesnt actually absorb the chakra he focuses it in his susano since he doesnt have Gedo statue to combine the bijuu with as kyuubi mentions and the power is keyword practically hagoromos level though not actually his level.

Point is that Sasuke's Six paths susano was above a young hamura with only yang but bellow old hagoromo which still qualifies for moon level and Naruto equalized it with all chakra from the bijuus and his yang that shouldve been on par with young hagoromo with only yang.

Basically even if we were to assume that Naruto and Sasuke were indeed 50 times weaker than Madara which is highly unlikely since they kept up with him in a way then they would still be 5-C via they're additional power ups and showings indicating specific detail of they're standing right afterwards.


Does this clarify everything?
 
I'd like to point out that Naruto and Sasuke gained additional power after Madara was defeated.

Naruto: Yin and Yang Kurama finally became whole (which gives Naruto more power overall), he can draw upon all the natural energy in the world to supplement his power, and he acquired Hashirama's DNA (which increases his power and stamina overall).

Sasuke: He used his Susanoo as a container for all the Bijuu's power (which is basically creating his own version of the Juubi)

Not only weren't they 50 times weaker than Madara, they closed the gap between him even further by gaining more power.
 
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