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Reishi = spiritual matter or spiritual atoms = souls.
All Matter has a smart soul = Reishi atoms.
Where do you think Quincy pull Reishi to fight in the human world?
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Bleach Soul Potency
- Thread starter Zaratthustra
- Start date
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- Tags
- bleach
Reishi = spiritual matter or spiritual atoms = souls.
All Matter has a smart soul = Reishi atoms.
Where do you think Quincy pull Reishi to fight in the human world?
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Bump
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Hmm bump
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Honestly this just depends on what you value as "soul".
The wiki seems to only consider a "soul" when it's equivalent to at least a "human". While Bleach calls anything a soul and sees it as equivalent.
The wiki seems to only consider a "soul" when it's equivalent to at least a "human". While Bleach calls anything a soul and sees it as equivalent.
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There is no standards as to what is considered a soul, A soul is whatever is called one since it's not something you can argue scientifically.
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I'm lazy, so can someone tell me what is being argued here?
As far as I understand, it's the idea that every atom has a soul, so that should scale to potency.
To which I ought to say that soul potency is counted by human standards if possible. Humans have a lot of atoms in them, so regardless of how many atoms you destroy it would still be at best be divided by the amount of atoms in a human.
But then it would need to be pointed out at which point they specifically destroy a lot of non-human (or sentient beings') souls but specifically items'.
Like, for exemple, Ergenverse have a soul for every plant and even items, from a single rock to a river. Most people in the verse can also destroy souls with their normal attacks. We still don't count their soul potency for every grass blade or rock that there is in a ten million mile planet,but go with actual feats denoting potency.
But I know nothing of the verse, and was too lazy to read through all of this, so I'd still ask for a shirt summary of what is being discussed now.
As far as I understand, it's the idea that every atom has a soul, so that should scale to potency.
To which I ought to say that soul potency is counted by human standards if possible. Humans have a lot of atoms in them, so regardless of how many atoms you destroy it would still be at best be divided by the amount of atoms in a human.
But then it would need to be pointed out at which point they specifically destroy a lot of non-human (or sentient beings') souls but specifically items'.
Like, for exemple, Ergenverse have a soul for every plant and even items, from a single rock to a river. Most people in the verse can also destroy souls with their normal attacks. We still don't count their soul potency for every grass blade or rock that there is in a ten million mile planet,but go with actual feats denoting potency.
But I know nothing of the verse, and was too lazy to read through all of this, so I'd still ask for a shirt summary of what is being discussed now.
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My only questions are, why are the standards kept at humans? What decides this baseline, exactly?
And what reason is there not to use those many souls if common sense tells you they should be destroying/controlling them and that they are souls? What is the actual issue?
And what reason is there not to use those many souls if common sense tells you they should be destroying/controlling them and that they are souls? What is the actual issue?
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Human World has "normal" souls which are made out of Reishi/spiritual matter/spiritual atoms which is the same material that all matter in Soul Society and Hueco Mundo is made off. Now all matter in the Human World also possess a small Reishi/soul because in the beginning the world of the living and the afterlife were one single dimension before the Soul King divided the cycle of life and death and create the "worlds".
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The fact even things like atoms have souls in Bleach, and what reason would there be to set the Baseline at human souls, since no reason has been given for this and makes it feel like just an arbitrary decision.
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The potency of bleach soul haxNepuko said:
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> The fact even things like atoms have souls in Bleach, and what reason would there be to set the Baseline at human souls, since no reason has been given for this and makes it feel like just an arbitrary decision.
Meaning... what exactly? What would change if we took atom souls into account?
Meaning... what exactly? What would change if we took atom souls into account?
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Hm, I'm not an expert in the verse, but if 1 human soul is the sum of all those, isn't it just 1 human soul at the end? And in the same vein, "soulhaxing" atom souls would rather be a Precision feat that anything else I believe. I'm sayin this as a hypothetical exemple, but if 1 human soul = 60 kg of Reishi, why would "soulhaxing" two 30 kg parts suddenly have double the potency of soulhaxing 1 60 kg part? Again, hypothetical exemple and I'm no expert.YungManzi said:
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Is because everything in bleach has a soul so atoms, cells etcNepuko said:
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And here is where people get it wrong. All those atom souls = 1 Bleach human soul. Not just a human soul from some random verse that does not have these same mechanics. Those atom souls are the smallest souls we know of in Bleach and thus have to require the minimum amount of soul manip to manipulate them by virtue of being a soul. Bleach human souls scale up from these atoms.
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Well, while giving them super high numbers for soul ripping just one person is pretty dumb, finding what counts as a "baseline" soul can be hard. You can't really prove that 1 Bleach atom = 1 human from anywhere else.
This is why you using numbers for soul potency doesn't make sense in verses where some souls can be stronger than others. >_>
This is why you using numbers for soul potency doesn't make sense in verses where some souls can be stronger than others. >_>
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You'd need to prove that the random human soul is more difficult to soul hax. Baseline for soul hax = the ability to manipulate 1 sou, quantity is quite literally the metric we use. Explain why 1 atom soul =/= random human soul and > atom soul.
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I think it just puts out a bigger problem in general.
We have no actual way to decide a baseline when something smaller than a human soul is still called a soul, and no reason not to treat the much smaller soul as a soul still since is called exactly that.
Like, besides not wanting to create inflated numbers, is there any actual reason?
We have no actual way to decide a baseline when something smaller than a human soul is still called a soul, and no reason not to treat the much smaller soul as a soul still since is called exactly that.
Like, besides not wanting to create inflated numbers, is there any actual reason?
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"This is why you using numbers for soul potency doesn't make sense in verses where some souls can be stronger than others."
...This is another issue that I've kinda dropped, but always believed needed attention.
Edit:
If the whole soul scaling thing with bleach is accepted, we need to change our soul standards as a whole.
...This is another issue that I've kinda dropped, but always believed needed attention.
Edit:
If the whole soul scaling thing with bleach is accepted, we need to change our soul standards as a whole.
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Souls being stronger than others just scales them above anyway. It's exactly what we did with all of Bleach when we just said they are all way stronger than Tatsuki. The only issue you encounter with this is that it's unquantifiable and a feat with actual numbers would take priority just like a feat calced at 8-C vs one that isn't calced but given 8-C because the feat was destroying a building. If X verse has Y character with a stronger soul to Z, then he is scaled unquantifiably above.
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if both "Human" Soul and "object" soul in Bleach are made of the same materia (reishi) , can't we,like, try and equalise the ~60kg of random Reishi to 1 human Soul?
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This is literally only a problem with BleachLSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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It's actually not. I don't see anyone ragging about animal souls, despite the fact we wouldn't treat mind haxing a bunch of animals the same as mind haxing a bunch of people.
Both are unquantifiable, exactly because both aren't comparable and there's no standard logic to souls beyond what the series says. And what the series says is that the souls of things are smaller, but "the baseline of a soul is a human soul" is not a thing so that just means the souls of humans scale above those, that's it.
Both are unquantifiable, exactly because both aren't comparable and there's no standard logic to souls beyond what the series says. And what the series says is that the souls of things are smaller, but "the baseline of a soul is a human soul" is not a thing so that just means the souls of humans scale above those, that's it.
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That's alread misleading since the soul in a Human is not "60kg" of Reishi obviously. A human is probably 60kg of Kishi and an unknown amount of Reishi for the soul in them.MetalGearRaiden said:
Plus, the soul between two different beings is not equivalent since the strength of an individual's soul is dependent on their Reiryoku.
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Lol at calling how the verse is written a problem.
Also let's stop trying to add some arbitrary standard, as of now there is nothing official that states a soul is only counted as a human soul regardless of what the series say.
Also let's stop trying to add some arbitrary standard, as of now there is nothing official that states a soul is only counted as a human soul regardless of what the series say.
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This, plus the fact that Bleach does not treat the souls of inanimate objects as weaker than a normal Human's soul.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
The only difference is one is physically smaller.
So does that mean the soul of an Elephant is somehow greater than several humans now according to what others are saying in this thread? Obviously not, they're just equivalent since they're both souls.
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I was talking about the "actual" soul of that elephant as compared to the actual soul of a human.
They should be equivalent despite their size difference obviously. Why would the elephant's soul be greater than a human's? The size doesn't matter.
That's why there shouldn't be a difference in the soul of an atom to the soul of a human. The size difference doesn't matter, in Bleach both are souls.
They should be equivalent despite their size difference obviously. Why would the elephant's soul be greater than a human's? The size doesn't matter.
That's why there shouldn't be a difference in the soul of an atom to the soul of a human. The size difference doesn't matter, in Bleach both are souls.
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That has got to be the silliest suggestion I've ever heard on the wiki.YungManzi said:
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If you want to say all atoms form 1 human soul that's whatever.
Aura also has the feat of manipulating all the Reishi in the sky turning ithe sky itself into water.
she also turned all her cells into mist.
Aura also has the feat of manipulating all the Reishi in the sky turning ithe sky itself into water.
she also turned all her cells into mist.
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Does that train of tought have anything backing it up? Most verses that delve into stronger and weaker souls take into account the raw power and sometimes knowledge of the person. But disregarding "most", if all matter contributes to soul then why would a human be an elephant's equal? Are animal's soul dismissed as inferior or said to be equal?
And do I need to point out why the idea of 1 atom soul being equal to someone made out of 10^27 atoms in it? Unless you are, of course, saying that what one is made out of has no bearing on a souls potency (so each atoms would have a soul, but a human would have a seperate soul of their own).
So, as I see it: if every atoms' soul stacks to make a single human soul, then said soul would just be assumed to be equal to a normal human soul. Because Bleach isn't Undertale and as far as I understand normal humans are, we'll, normal humans. Saying why we make a human soul = to a human soul in-between verses (without lore saying otherwise, again see Undertale and their time warping sous) is simple verse equalization. Because making them equal is arbitrary with or without atom souls, but is needed for vsbattles.
If a human soul is unrelated to the matter that makes it up, why would soul haxing a human be affected by the atoms in their bodies? Do you have a scan that proves this? One that shows anyone affecting the atoms' souls in a human, or that is seen affecting large amount of matter with soul hax. If it was already given in the thread, just repost that. If it wasn't, give a quote. If there wasn't, why would you assume something this farfetched?
And do I need to point out why the idea of 1 atom soul being equal to someone made out of 10^27 atoms in it? Unless you are, of course, saying that what one is made out of has no bearing on a souls potency (so each atoms would have a soul, but a human would have a seperate soul of their own).
So, as I see it: if every atoms' soul stacks to make a single human soul, then said soul would just be assumed to be equal to a normal human soul. Because Bleach isn't Undertale and as far as I understand normal humans are, we'll, normal humans. Saying why we make a human soul = to a human soul in-between verses (without lore saying otherwise, again see Undertale and their time warping sous) is simple verse equalization. Because making them equal is arbitrary with or without atom souls, but is needed for vsbattles.
If a human soul is unrelated to the matter that makes it up, why would soul haxing a human be affected by the atoms in their bodies? Do you have a scan that proves this? One that shows anyone affecting the atoms' souls in a human, or that is seen affecting large amount of matter with soul hax. If it was already given in the thread, just repost that. If it wasn't, give a quote. If there wasn't, why would you assume something this farfetched?
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Yep, I know you were talking about the actual souls, no worries about that. I was referring to what @Yungmanzi said. And if as you said, 1 atom soul = 1 human soul, then I guess soulhaxing humans isn't soulhaxing the 10^27 atoms they have obviously? if 1 human = 10^27 atom souls and 1 human soul = 1 atom soul at the same time, there's a small problem here.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Edit : basically what ricsi said.
Hm. Can you remind me what souls are "made of" in bleach? If it was precised ^^.
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Reishi which are spiritual particles.
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Alright, can someone indulge in my sloth and quote what says that every normal atom has soul?
I'll assume normal atoms are stated to have them, cuz Reishi being a particle doesn't mean there is equal amount of them in a person as there are atoms.
Hell, if it's just Reishi that makes this whole argument then I'd have to question why the material making up a human soul would be assumed to be individually as strong as what it creates. But I'll leave that train of tought for until I get quotes or until I slept like a healthy person and read through this myself.
I'll assume normal atoms are stated to have them, cuz Reishi being a particle doesn't mean there is equal amount of them in a person as there are atoms.
Hell, if it's just Reishi that makes this whole argument then I'd have to question why the material making up a human soul would be assumed to be individually as strong as what it creates. But I'll leave that train of tought for until I get quotes or until I slept like a healthy person and read through this myself.
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@Ricsi
>But disregarding "most", if all matter contributes to soul the why would a human be an elephant's equal?
We were discussing the actual individual soul of the being. The soul of an elephant should be equivalent to the soul of a human. They're both souls.
The soul of the matter individually is treated as equivalent in Bleach, soul = soul.
>Are animal's soul dismissed as inferior or said to be equal?
No soul is deemed as inferior unless a specific soul has a high amount of Reiryoku, spiritual energy. Then that soul is deemed superior.
>Unless you are, of course, saying that what one is made out of has no bearing on a souls potency (so each atoms would have a soul, but a human would have a seperate soul of their own).
Yep, that's what I've been going for.
Essentially, only specific beings can soul hax atoms. These mainly being Quincies who literally manipulate Reishi itself and Fullbringers who manipulate the souls of Kishi and Reishi.
Those who held the mantle of Soul King as well since they manipulate the Reishi and Kishi that make up the worlds while the Prime Soul King literally made all the Reishi and Kishi in existence (the 4-A stuff).
>But disregarding "most", if all matter contributes to soul the why would a human be an elephant's equal?
We were discussing the actual individual soul of the being. The soul of an elephant should be equivalent to the soul of a human. They're both souls.
The soul of the matter individually is treated as equivalent in Bleach, soul = soul.
>Are animal's soul dismissed as inferior or said to be equal?
No soul is deemed as inferior unless a specific soul has a high amount of Reiryoku, spiritual energy. Then that soul is deemed superior.
>Unless you are, of course, saying that what one is made out of has no bearing on a souls potency (so each atoms would have a soul, but a human would have a seperate soul of their own).
Yep, that's what I've been going for.
Essentially, only specific beings can soul hax atoms. These mainly being Quincies who literally manipulate Reishi itself and Fullbringers who manipulate the souls of Kishi and Reishi.
Those who held the mantle of Soul King as well since they manipulate the Reishi and Kishi that make up the worlds while the Prime Soul King literally made all the Reishi and Kishi in existence (the 4-A stuff).
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@Nepuko
>Hm. Can you remind me what souls are "made of" in bleach? If it was precised
All souls in Bleach are made of Reishi, translated as Spiritual Matter.
All actual natural matter is Kishi.
>Hm. Can you remind me what souls are "made of" in bleach? If it was precised
All souls in Bleach are made of Reishi, translated as Spiritual Matter.
All actual natural matter is Kishi.
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