-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach Soul Potency
- Thread starter Zaratthustra
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bleach
- 8,161
- 2,190
@Ricsi
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3893363#24
Scans right here.
And this quote itself has someone soul haxing nitrogen.
"No, if anything, it's like she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… I guess that's how I'd describe it. Oh my, that you're able to do that in the Human World which has a weaker Reishi presence, it is truly an amazing thing."
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3893363#24
Scans right here.
And this quote itself has someone soul haxing nitrogen.
"No, if anything, it's like she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… I guess that's how I'd describe it. Oh my, that you're able to do that in the Human World which has a weaker Reishi presence, it is truly an amazing thing."
- 26,160
- 3,653
So, can you give the scan for the atoms have soul thing?
- 8,161
- 2,190
There is no scan that says that directly, the point is all things have soul including elements such as nitrogen.
"By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter, a Fullbringer is able to distort and manipulate the matter itself, and at times, even the laws of physics. Moreover, they can invoke their very own abilities through the transfiguration of an object in their possession which they hold a particular attachment to. However, that isn't the case for this individual."
"By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter, a Fullbringer is able to distort and manipulate the matter itself, and at times, even the laws of physics. Moreover, they can invoke their very own abilities through the transfiguration of an object in their possession which they hold a particular attachment to. However, that isn't the case for this individual."
- 1,154
- 659
Hm, I see.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Wait, but isn't a Menos Grande (most basic Menos type iirc) a giant Hollow made of a lot of Hollows that fused, and is "hence" stronger than normal hollows? And as such, isn't he basically a bigger soul with "more" Reishi since more Hollows make it up?? And by that logic, isn't 1 atom soul < human soul, which also is indeed < elephant soul since they have "less" Reishi?
Or is that unrelated.
- 26,160
- 3,653
But that literally says, while referring to an object, that the "amount of soul is small". And with how he talks about items and their porpuse, it's clear that the matter that makes them up loses it's individuality (as a soul) and one greater soul is made (which can then aid one in using it).
I'll change the question then. What proves that all matter has the same amount of Soul?
I'll change the question then. What proves that all matter has the same amount of Soul?
- 4,327
- 2,978
He's a bigger soul with more "Reiryoku", not Reishi.
Reiryoku is the Spiritual Energy/Power of a being. By eating other Hollows and absorbing their Reiryoku, the Menos gets a stronger soul.
Reiryoku is the Spiritual Energy/Power of a being. By eating other Hollows and absorbing their Reiryoku, the Menos gets a stronger soul.
- 26,160
- 3,653
No, it shouldn't. At all.
It just means souls can be smaller and bigger. It in no way means that all matter has equal souls.
Especially when it makes it clear that the things created out of matter have a single, united soul.
It just means souls can be smaller and bigger. It in no way means that all matter has equal souls.
Especially when it makes it clear that the things created out of matter have a single, united soul.
- 8,161
- 2,190
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
- 1,167
- 976
Yeah but what does size have to do with it at all? A soul is a soul. Unless you can tell me what the standards of an actual soul is?
- 1,870
- 336
Regardless the numbers are gonna be ridiculous at the end of the day but Bleach's context determines a stronger soul by the amount of Reiryoku rather than the size of the soul. Unless you genuinely believe that Ayon or Gerard have stronger souls than Yhwach for being bigger.
- 26,160
- 3,653
Well Sigurd, assuming that you take the atoms in an average human as the average for soul hax, do any of those feats manipulate enough matter to be worthwhile feats?
And why does their size matter? I just... what? That is as clear a hierarchy between them as there can be for them as there is. There are smaller souls, and larger souls. Matter makes up one greater soul that helps in the control and creation of items. Etc.
And why does their size matter? I just... what? That is as clear a hierarchy between them as there can be for them as there is. There are smaller souls, and larger souls. Matter makes up one greater soul that helps in the control and creation of items. Etc.
- 8,161
- 2,190
@Ricsi
I don't care about these human and atom soul thing any more. What is your response to the actual feats I quoted that we're performed?
I don't care about these human and atom soul thing any more. What is your response to the actual feats I quoted that we're performed?
- 26,160
- 3,653
The sky thing might get a pretty good number, I guess?
- 8,161
- 2,190
Well I mean yeah, considering what the sky consist of (Town is rated as 13km)how would we quantify the tier of soul manipulation in terms of a number.
I should prob state not every random person can do what she does, this is her specialty. Mass soul manipulation.
I should prob state not every random person can do what she does, this is her specialty. Mass soul manipulation.
- 26,160
- 3,653
Try to estimate how much matter there is in there and divide it by the atoms in an average humans.
- 8,753
- 1,617
"Saying why we make a human soul = to a human soul in-between verses (without lore saying otherwise, again see Undertale and their time warping sous) is simple verse equalization. Because making them equal is arbitrary with or without atom souls, but is needed for vsbattles."
No, that's not a thing, what on Earth are you talking about.
Verse equalization is about permitting interaction, that is the heart and soul of it. Which we still don't do if there's some pretty obvious discrepancy between the things being equalized.
That said, my point from the start is where's the rule, or the reasoning, behind setting the baseline at humans even when we see that things are extremely different and what can be called a soul can be much smaller. Why is this the baseline and not that? What actual reason is there? I have yet to see this answered.
No, that's not a thing, what on Earth are you talking about.
Verse equalization is about permitting interaction, that is the heart and soul of it. Which we still don't do if there's some pretty obvious discrepancy between the things being equalized.
That said, my point from the start is where's the rule, or the reasoning, behind setting the baseline at humans even when we see that things are extremely different and what can be called a soul can be much smaller. Why is this the baseline and not that? What actual reason is there? I have yet to see this answered.
- 26,160
- 3,653
It is. We assume half of the characters in the wiki have a soul due to verse equalization, and we assume that said souls are equally fragile in-between verses based on nothing. There is no proof that a normal human in Ergenverse is equal to a normal human in Naruto, we still assume that for the sake of comparing them in a battle.
And we use that as a baseline for potency because that's the use that is used most for in vsbattles. There needs to be assumed a common foothold for any fight in-between soul manipulators and people that resist it to say who is "stronger". It's baseless, but everything about soul and mind interaction between verses is, and many don't view the amount of souls affected as something denoting it's power at all.
Not all fiction will fir any of the systems put up, but some way to compare the potency of the haxes is needed.
And we use that as a baseline for potency because that's the use that is used most for in vsbattles. There needs to be assumed a common foothold for any fight in-between soul manipulators and people that resist it to say who is "stronger". It's baseless, but everything about soul and mind interaction between verses is, and many don't view the amount of souls affected as something denoting it's power at all.
Not all fiction will fir any of the systems put up, but some way to compare the potency of the haxes is needed.
- 8,753
- 1,617
We assume they do because there is no reason to assume the opposite, the very same way we did for Composite Human when he was a thing despite being based on actual normal humans, not because of verse equalization.
And that is the entire point, we assume they are the same unless the souls are treated in some different way by the series itself, because the context of the series itself is what matters, or should matter.
It is baseless when the assumption is made for a series with a completely different structure, which is not the case for the great majority (which yes, I can and will say is the case for the great majority of series that goes into souls) of other fictional pieces we have here. This is not even the same case as mind hax, as I said above, where we can very definitely say things like animals aren't comparable to us because there's no basis in reality, yet this doesn't apply in any way to souls.
And that is the entire point, we assume they are the same unless the souls are treated in some different way by the series itself, because the context of the series itself is what matters, or should matter.
It is baseless when the assumption is made for a series with a completely different structure, which is not the case for the great majority (which yes, I can and will say is the case for the great majority of series that goes into souls) of other fictional pieces we have here. This is not even the same case as mind hax, as I said above, where we can very definitely say things like animals aren't comparable to us because there's no basis in reality, yet this doesn't apply in any way to souls.
- 26,160
- 3,653
That is verse equalization. We do not actually assume real world animals have non-corporeal minds and souls,nor can we assume concepts unbound by our perceptions exist. That is for the philosophers, and can't be proven and thus can't be assumed by default.
And it's been made very specific that unless the verse details the workings of souls, they will work exactly the same way as an enemy's in a battle. Because they are equalized.
And why would anything presented here say that a Bleach humans' soul is superior to another verses' human soul then? Matter having soul doesn't mean that a human soul is now equivalent to 10^27 souls a human from another verse would have. Especially with souls being bigger and smaller, why wouldn't it be assume that the size of the human soul in Bleach and random verse are the same?
Not really, no. We can't clearly tell that mindhaxing an animal is superior or inferior to mindhaxing a person, because it's up to the fiction to decide if intelligence has anything to do with a non-corporeal mind tied to living beings. And if said fiction doesn't specify either way, we just assume an animal is inferior to a human by assuming that the mindhax relies on mental complexity. Same for concepts. The way a type 4, 3, 2 or 1 concept is used varies immensely even within the same types, and yet we still trade resistance for said applications.
And it's been made very specific that unless the verse details the workings of souls, they will work exactly the same way as an enemy's in a battle. Because they are equalized.
And why would anything presented here say that a Bleach humans' soul is superior to another verses' human soul then? Matter having soul doesn't mean that a human soul is now equivalent to 10^27 souls a human from another verse would have. Especially with souls being bigger and smaller, why wouldn't it be assume that the size of the human soul in Bleach and random verse are the same?
Not really, no. We can't clearly tell that mindhaxing an animal is superior or inferior to mindhaxing a person, because it's up to the fiction to decide if intelligence has anything to do with a non-corporeal mind tied to living beings. And if said fiction doesn't specify either way, we just assume an animal is inferior to a human by assuming that the mindhax relies on mental complexity. Same for concepts. The way a type 4, 3, 2 or 1 concept is used varies immensely even within the same types, and yet we still trade resistance for said applications.
- 8,161
- 2,190
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3918667?useskin=oasis#12
I talked about it with Antoniofer, so we will likely ha e go with the low end. The number will be pretty high.
I talked about it with Antoniofer, so we will likely ha e go with the low end. The number will be pretty high.
- 1,167
- 976
So I don't know how accurate it is but since it's a low end it should fine?
Anyways Aura can manipulate all the sky above Karakura Town which is 13km.
To find how many souls in a 13km sky I used the Earth's circumference of 40,000km (assuming the sky is the same) and divided with a number to get 13km:
40000 / 3076 = 13.0039011704km
I then used that number (3076) to divide it by how many atoms in the sky (2e+43) to get a number for a 13km sky:
2e+43 / 3076 = 6.5019506e+39
Then I divide the atoms in a 13km sky to a average human's atom:
6.5019506e+39 / 7e+27 = 928850085714. Which is 928 billion souls.
I think I did everything right. lol.
Anyways Aura can manipulate all the sky above Karakura Town which is 13km.
To find how many souls in a 13km sky I used the Earth's circumference of 40,000km (assuming the sky is the same) and divided with a number to get 13km:
40000 / 3076 = 13.0039011704km
I then used that number (3076) to divide it by how many atoms in the sky (2e+43) to get a number for a 13km sky:
2e+43 / 3076 = 6.5019506e+39
Then I divide the atoms in a 13km sky to a average human's atom:
6.5019506e+39 / 7e+27 = 928850085714. Which is 928 billion souls.
I think I did everything right. lol.
- 8,161
- 2,190
That's wild
- 3,527
- 1,255
i can't vouch for the math but damn is that number big .
i don't want to know what the number for PSK would be .
oh who am i kidding , i do want to know .
i don't want to know what the number for PSK would be .
oh who am i kidding , i do want to know .
- 8,161
- 2,190
He made Reishi
Reishi = Souls
Movie states there are infinite souls so...
Reishi = Souls
Movie states there are infinite souls so...
- 1,870
- 336
PSK is infinite.
- 13,587
- 5,754
Soul King's number is Za Warudo
- 6,253
- 2,677
IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!
- 4,327
- 2,978
The absolute low-end is hundreds of souls.
The discussion then evolved into the Soul King's which we couldn't agree on.
The discussion then evolved into the Soul King's which we couldn't agree on.
- 8,161
- 2,190
None, seems some people are hesistant on what qualifies a soul etc because the number can be very vast via the statements within the series. I did ask some staff before and they're not sure what do about it.Antvasima said:
- 1,870
- 336
I personally think 3x planetary is the best bet for people like Yhwach and those that scale from him. If we accepted the atoms thing it'd be higher iirc.
- 8,161
- 2,190
yammy's basic soul suck.
- 6,253
- 2,677
We do have a quote from a movie that is cannon stating that there are infinite souls (of course this does not apply to everyone only SK and possibly Yhwach as they are the ones that control everything) as for the control of the little souls in everything is the same not everyone has that kind of soul hax only the quincy and the fullbringers (limited for them exept for Aura)Nepuko said:
Similar threads
