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Bleach Soul Potency

@Ricsi

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3893363#24

Scans right here.

And this quote itself has someone soul haxing nitrogen.

"No, if anything, it's like she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… I guess that's how I'd describe it. Oh my, that you're able to do that in the Human World which has a weaker Reishi presence, it is truly an amazing thing."
 
There is no scan that says that directly, the point is all things have soul including elements such as nitrogen.

"By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter, a Fullbringer is able to distort and manipulate the matter itself, and at times, even the laws of physics. Moreover, they can invoke their very own abilities through the transfiguration of an object in their possession which they hold a particular attachment to. However, that isn't the case for this individual."
 
Mayuri (scientist Captain) talks about how Uryu (Quincy) manipulates the spiritrons of the buildings in the afterlife. (Soul Society)
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
@Nepuko
>Hm. Can you remind me what souls are "made of" in bleach? If it was precised

All souls in Bleach are made of Reishi, translated as Spiritual Matter.

All actual natural matter is Kishi.
Hm, I see.

Wait, but isn't a Menos Grande (most basic Menos type iirc) a giant Hollow made of a lot of Hollows that fused, and is "hence" stronger than normal hollows? And as such, isn't he basically a bigger soul with "more" Reishi since more Hollows make it up?? And by that logic, isn't 1 atom soul < human soul, which also is indeed < elephant soul since they have "less" Reishi?

Or is that unrelated.
 
But that literally says, while referring to an object, that the "amount of soul is small". And with how he talks about items and their porpuse, it's clear that the matter that makes them up loses it's individuality (as a soul) and one greater soul is made (which can then aid one in using it).

I'll change the question then. What proves that all matter has the same amount of Soul?
 
He's a bigger soul with more "Reiryoku", not Reishi.

Reiryoku is the Spiritual Energy/Power of a being. By eating other Hollows and absorbing their Reiryoku, the Menos gets a stronger soul.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
But that literally says, while referring to an object, that the "amount of soul is small". And with how he talks about items and their porpuse, it's clear that the matter that makes them up loses it's individuality (as a soul) and one greater soul is made (which can then aid one in using it).

I'll change the question then. What proves that all matter has the same amount of Soul?
All souls found in matter are "small" shouldn't that tell you that every single one is "small" or the same size.
 
No, it shouldn't. At all.

It just means souls can be smaller and bigger. It in no way means that all matter has equal souls.

Especially when it makes it clear that the things created out of matter have a single, united soul.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
If you want to say all atoms form 1 human soul that's whatever.

Aura also has the feat of manipulating all of the sky above Karakura town turning into water.

she also turned all her cells into mist.

And formed a barrier out of individual nitrogen.
 
Yeah but what does size have to do with it at all? A soul is a soul. Unless you can tell me what the standards of an actual soul is?
 
Regardless the numbers are gonna be ridiculous at the end of the day but Bleach's context determines a stronger soul by the amount of Reiryoku rather than the size of the soul. Unless you genuinely believe that Ayon or Gerard have stronger souls than Yhwach for being bigger.
 
Well Sigurd, assuming that you take the atoms in an average human as the average for soul hax, do any of those feats manipulate enough matter to be worthwhile feats?

And why does their size matter? I just... what? That is as clear a hierarchy between them as there can be for them as there is. There are smaller souls, and larger souls. Matter makes up one greater soul that helps in the control and creation of items. Etc.
 
Well I mean yeah, considering what the sky consist of (Town is rated as 13km)how would we quantify the tier of soul manipulation in terms of a number.

I should prob state not every random person can do what she does, this is her specialty. Mass soul manipulation.
 
"Saying why we make a human soul = to a human soul in-between verses (without lore saying otherwise, again see Undertale and their time warping sous) is simple verse equalization. Because making them equal is arbitrary with or without atom souls, but is needed for vsbattles."

No, that's not a thing, what on Earth are you talking about.

Verse equalization is about permitting interaction, that is the heart and soul of it. Which we still don't do if there's some pretty obvious discrepancy between the things being equalized.

That said, my point from the start is where's the rule, or the reasoning, behind setting the baseline at humans even when we see that things are extremely different and what can be called a soul can be much smaller. Why is this the baseline and not that? What actual reason is there? I have yet to see this answered.
 
It is. We assume half of the characters in the wiki have a soul due to verse equalization, and we assume that said souls are equally fragile in-between verses based on nothing. There is no proof that a normal human in Ergenverse is equal to a normal human in Naruto, we still assume that for the sake of comparing them in a battle.

And we use that as a baseline for potency because that's the use that is used most for in vsbattles. There needs to be assumed a common foothold for any fight in-between soul manipulators and people that resist it to say who is "stronger". It's baseless, but everything about soul and mind interaction between verses is, and many don't view the amount of souls affected as something denoting it's power at all.

Not all fiction will fir any of the systems put up, but some way to compare the potency of the haxes is needed.
 
We assume they do because there is no reason to assume the opposite, the very same way we did for Composite Human when he was a thing despite being based on actual normal humans, not because of verse equalization.

And that is the entire point, we assume they are the same unless the souls are treated in some different way by the series itself, because the context of the series itself is what matters, or should matter.

It is baseless when the assumption is made for a series with a completely different structure, which is not the case for the great majority (which yes, I can and will say is the case for the great majority of series that goes into souls) of other fictional pieces we have here. This is not even the same case as mind hax, as I said above, where we can very definitely say things like animals aren't comparable to us because there's no basis in reality, yet this doesn't apply in any way to souls.
 
That is verse equalization. We do not actually assume real world animals have non-corporeal minds and souls,nor can we assume concepts unbound by our perceptions exist. That is for the philosophers, and can't be proven and thus can't be assumed by default.

And it's been made very specific that unless the verse details the workings of souls, they will work exactly the same way as an enemy's in a battle. Because they are equalized.


And why would anything presented here say that a Bleach humans' soul is superior to another verses' human soul then? Matter having soul doesn't mean that a human soul is now equivalent to 10^27 souls a human from another verse would have. Especially with souls being bigger and smaller, why wouldn't it be assume that the size of the human soul in Bleach and random verse are the same?

Not really, no. We can't clearly tell that mindhaxing an animal is superior or inferior to mindhaxing a person, because it's up to the fiction to decide if intelligence has anything to do with a non-corporeal mind tied to living beings. And if said fiction doesn't specify either way, we just assume an animal is inferior to a human by assuming that the mindhax relies on mental complexity. Same for concepts. The way a type 4, 3, 2 or 1 concept is used varies immensely even within the same types, and yet we still trade resistance for said applications.
 
So I don't know how accurate it is but since it's a low end it should fine?

Anyways Aura can manipulate all the sky above Karakura Town which is 13km.

To find how many souls in a 13km sky I used the Earth's circumference of 40,000km (assuming the sky is the same) and divided with a number to get 13km:

40000 / 3076 = 13.0039011704km

I then used that number (3076) to divide it by how many atoms in the sky (2e+43) to get a number for a 13km sky:

2e+43 / 3076 = 6.5019506e+39

Then I divide the atoms in a 13km sky to a average human's atom:

6.5019506e+39 / 7e+27 = 928850085714. Which is 928 billion souls.

I think I did everything right. lol.
 
i can't vouch for the math but damn is that number big .

i don't want to know what the number for PSK would be .

oh who am i kidding , i do want to know .
 
What are the summarised conclusions here?
 
Antvasima said:
What are the summarised conclusions here?
None, seems some people are hesistant on what qualifies a soul etc because the number can be very vast via the statements within the series. I did ask some staff before and they're not sure what do about it.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
The absolute low-end is hundreds of souls.
The discussion then evolved into the Soul King's which we couldn't agree on.
That absolute low-end is for whom (or "what") exactly, if I may ask?
 
So that's what RC will be based on now? Since well, if no consensus is reached on RC then using it in matches is a bit...
 
Nepuko said:
So that's what RC will be based on now? Since well, if no consensus is reached on RC then using it in matches is a bit...
We do have a quote from a movie that is cannon stating that there are infinite souls (of course this does not apply to everyone only SK and possibly Yhwach as they are the ones that control everything) as for the control of the little souls in everything is the same not everyone has that kind of soul hax only the quincy and the fullbringers (limited for them exept for Aura)
 
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