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Nope because most people have no spiritual awareness thus no spiritual power.
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Bleach Soul Potency
- Thread starter Zaratthustra
- Start date
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- Tags
- bleach
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Since random objects such as ice, alcohol, glass and lightpoles were stated to have weak souls then I would assume that means a human soul of other verses > an object's soul and this of course would be applied to molecules as well.Rocker1189 said:
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I wasn't aware that there's a "criteria" for what makes a soul a soul, souls work differently and varies depending on the work of fiction and the religion.
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Another reason why no one actually targets objects such as hollows is because well humans have more and are also powerless, so they always eat the humans.
We see this in Burn The Witch, 72% of human deaths in the history of London we're done by dragons.
We see this in Burn The Witch, 72% of human deaths in the history of London we're done by dragons.
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@Dieno
What? Why would other verses get buffed soul resist for being human from Bleach? Random objects counting as having souls and Bleach human souls being stronger mean Bleach human soul resist > other verse human soul resist. Just because they are stated to be weak (compared to humans) does not mean they have less soul resist than a human. Hell, the whole verse has a weak soul compared to Ichigo who is a human. Guess we'll just scale every basic human in another verse to Bleach god tier soul resist.
What? Why would other verses get buffed soul resist for being human from Bleach? Random objects counting as having souls and Bleach human souls being stronger mean Bleach human soul resist > other verse human soul resist. Just because they are stated to be weak (compared to humans) does not mean they have less soul resist than a human. Hell, the whole verse has a weak soul compared to Ichigo who is a human. Guess we'll just scale every basic human in another verse to Bleach god tier soul resist.
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This is true, we don't verse equalize like that.
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@AnonymousBlank
Because the objects souls are stated to only contain a small amount of soul compared to living things and not the other way around. If it was stated that human souls were stronger than the souls of objects then sure but it isn't. The soul of objects are just weaker than the more commonly known human soul and other people from other verses who resists human level soul manipulation would resist the soul manipulation a human level bleach soul manipulation.
Because the objects souls are stated to only contain a small amount of soul compared to living things and not the other way around. If it was stated that human souls were stronger than the souls of objects then sure but it isn't. The soul of objects are just weaker than the more commonly known human soul and other people from other verses who resists human level soul manipulation would resist the soul manipulation a human level bleach soul manipulation.
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Aight. So every human scales to Ichigo's soul resist. Clearly this reasoning is perfectly sound and should be accepted.
Fam .... Aizen calls people weak. Is he now the average soul with almost everyone just scaling below him?
Annoying as your argument is, what's more annoying is that you don't even seem to realise what you are doing. Bleach human =/= another verse human. Stop equating them to prop up this stupidity of "the glass is half empty so it's not half full". That is literally your argument rn. A cup having a weaker soul than a Plus is the exact same as a Plus having a stronger soul than a cup but here you are arguing that they are mutually exclusive.
Fam .... Aizen calls people weak. Is he now the average soul with almost everyone just scaling below him?
Annoying as your argument is, what's more annoying is that you don't even seem to realise what you are doing. Bleach human =/= another verse human. Stop equating them to prop up this stupidity of "the glass is half empty so it's not half full". That is literally your argument rn. A cup having a weaker soul than a Plus is the exact same as a Plus having a stronger soul than a cup but here you are arguing that they are mutually exclusive.
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Also isn't the amount of soul Resistance one has defined by the amount of Reiryoku one has?
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Uh ... no as shown by Tatsuki, Orihime, Chad, the entirety of Squad 11 etc
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Yeah I was just about to say that, it's all based on Reiryoku. Not how big or small someone's soul is. Common objects and elements don't have any spiritual power.
Humans have some but like I said they have very little that it's worthless pretty much outside of a select few. This is what separates Shinigami from common ghost. One has no power pretty much and the other has too much.
Humans have some but like I said they have very little that it's worthless pretty much outside of a select few. This is what separates Shinigami from common ghost. One has no power pretty much and the other has too much.
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@AnonymousBlank
Chill out with the tone and strawman, I've been civil but your attitude is getting annoying.
No, this isn't an "Aizen calling people weak" thing, there is a manga panel above that blatently states objects have souls but they are weak compared to living things.
I'm not saying a human in bleach = a human in another verse, I'm saying a human who resist soul manipulation in another verse would naturally resists a person in bleach's soul manipulation if that person is only at the level of manipulating 1 soul of course.
Chill out with the tone and strawman, I've been civil but your attitude is getting annoying.
No, this isn't an "Aizen calling people weak" thing, there is a manga panel above that blatently states objects have souls but they are weak compared to living things.
I'm not saying a human in bleach = a human in another verse, I'm saying a human who resist soul manipulation in another verse would naturally resists a person in bleach's soul manipulation if that person is only at the level of manipulating 1 soul of course.
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I mean sure, we already do that. But the point of this thread the op made is that he wants some sort of numerical value.
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Said souls were never called weak, just small two very different things.
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@Sigurd Snake in The Eye
Yea but obviously their is some disagreements regarding what an atom soul density is which would be a big factor here.
@The Princ of Counters
Sure, but I'd imagine said soul would be easier to manipulate would it not?
Yea but obviously their is some disagreements regarding what an atom soul density is which would be a big factor here.
@The Princ of Counters
Sure, but I'd imagine said soul would be easier to manipulate would it not?
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Not necessarily, Fullbringers can even boost said souls in return they unleash even greater power. Even the small amounts of souls in matter can be used to demonstrate an even greater power as stated by Ginjo, so it's obviously significant.
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But I'm talking about these small souls by themselves, not boosted or anything like that. It would be hard to convince people that a person who can manipulate human soul wouldn't be able to manipulate an object from bleach's soul.
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Yeah, despite being small they pack quite a significant amount of power in them, a normal human uses a tool and becomes very efficient with it, that's due to an object posses a soul which in turn makes the user even stronger. That depends entirely on the context of said users soul manipulation.
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Yea, but I'm talking about the object by itself. I get the general mechanics behind bleach's power system and soul workings.
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Make a logical arguments and I will. It ain't a strawman, its sarcasm. Your being civil has nothing to do with your argument being annoying.
Have you ever heard of this lovely thing called context? Look who is making the statement. If I call a rat weak, that doesn't mean the rat is weak, that means the rat is weak in comparison to me. It also doesn't matter whether it is weak compared "to living things", it's a soul and a soul is granted the baseline soul resist, no two ways about it. You are also aware that this would only apply to living things in Bleach, yes. So if an atom has a weaker soul than a human, the atom would possess the baseline resistance and the human would possess a greater than baseline resistance.
You never said that once, in any fashion at all. Your stance has always been "atom < Bleach human therefore atom < another verse human" or how do you explain this?
Have you ever heard of this lovely thing called context? Look who is making the statement. If I call a rat weak, that doesn't mean the rat is weak, that means the rat is weak in comparison to me. It also doesn't matter whether it is weak compared "to living things", it's a soul and a soul is granted the baseline soul resist, no two ways about it. You are also aware that this would only apply to living things in Bleach, yes. So if an atom has a weaker soul than a human, the atom would possess the baseline resistance and the human would possess a greater than baseline resistance.
You never said that once, in any fashion at all. Your stance has always been "atom < Bleach human therefore atom < another verse human" or how do you explain this?
Dienomite22 said:
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@AnonymousBlank
No, it's definitely a strawman, your sarcasm doesn't make it something different. Being an ass for no reason isn't helping, especially when I don't follow bleach and I'm trying to help out bleach verse here. You could just stop seething at anything that disagrees with you and explain your position.
I concede on this point for now but this undoubtedly extremely iffy.
No, I was saying humans from verses that resist human soul manipulation > object soul/atom soul because those souls were stated to be weaker than living souls and verse equalization would dictate that human would work under bleach's mechanics as well. Not put their resistence on bleach human level in general.
No, it's definitely a strawman, your sarcasm doesn't make it something different. Being an ass for no reason isn't helping, especially when I don't follow bleach and I'm trying to help out bleach verse here. You could just stop seething at anything that disagrees with you and explain your position.
I concede on this point for now but this undoubtedly extremely iffy.
No, I was saying humans from verses that resist human soul manipulation > object soul/atom soul because those souls were stated to be weaker than living souls and verse equalization would dictate that human would work under bleach's mechanics as well. Not put their resistence on bleach human level in general.
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No it's not. If its sarcasm, clearly a reference to the joke I made in the previous post and I don't mean it seriously nor intend it as part of my argument, it isn't a strawman. Disagreeing with me is perfectly fine, I love it when people disagree with me, it typically makes for a fun conversation.
It's really not but we can just let this die.
Um ..... that post I quoted was the first post you made on this thread and didn't mention X from verse Y resists soul manip. It's kinda hard to know about something about your argument if you never mentioned it.
That's also not how verse equal works. Living things in Bleach having superior souls to inanimate things is a feat for them. It's not something that gets verse equaled as it grants additional abilities (that being greater soul manip resistance in this case) to whatever is interacting with Bleach. This is like the supernatural energy argument from before where people said that since X verse has Chakra/Ki/Nen/magic etc they now gain the properties of reiryoku via verse equal.
Now an actual argument for why X from verse Y would have greater soul resist than an atom from Bleach is the fact that he actually has a soul resist feat (you said it yourself that he can resist soul manip). If you need soul manip of 1 to manipulate a soul who has no resistance, then by default, someone who can resist this level of soul hax at minimum would have greater soul resist than a soul that doesn't. That still doesn't elevate him to the level of a Bleach cup though unless his resistance feat is just that good.
It's really not but we can just let this die.
Um ..... that post I quoted was the first post you made on this thread and didn't mention X from verse Y resists soul manip. It's kinda hard to know about something about your argument if you never mentioned it.
That's also not how verse equal works. Living things in Bleach having superior souls to inanimate things is a feat for them. It's not something that gets verse equaled as it grants additional abilities (that being greater soul manip resistance in this case) to whatever is interacting with Bleach. This is like the supernatural energy argument from before where people said that since X verse has Chakra/Ki/Nen/magic etc they now gain the properties of reiryoku via verse equal.
Now an actual argument for why X from verse Y would have greater soul resist than an atom from Bleach is the fact that he actually has a soul resist feat (you said it yourself that he can resist soul manip). If you need soul manip of 1 to manipulate a soul who has no resistance, then by default, someone who can resist this level of soul hax at minimum would have greater soul resist than a soul that doesn't. That still doesn't elevate him to the level of a Bleach cup though unless his resistance feat is just that good.
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Your joke was literally misconstruding my argument and turning into something I never implied. I don't care if you like disagreement or not, I barely know anything about bleach and don't follow it while trying to comprehend how everything about the verse works. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a debate.
Sure.
This thread is about resistances to soul manipulation so I though it would be a given. I would never say someone resists soul manipulation just because, if a character never has resisted soul manipulation in any form was against someone from bleach with only object soul manipulation then that bleach character would win.
>next 2 paragraphs
How would things like Bleach characters vs outside characters be handled then? Does verse equalization applies the mechanics of atoms having souls into outside verse characters? and if the Bleach character can manipulate moleculer souls inside the body, how would that work with outside verse character who wouldn't have it?
Sure.
This thread is about resistances to soul manipulation so I though it would be a given. I would never say someone resists soul manipulation just because, if a character never has resisted soul manipulation in any form was against someone from bleach with only object soul manipulation then that bleach character would win.
>next 2 paragraphs
How would things like Bleach characters vs outside characters be handled then? Does verse equalization applies the mechanics of atoms having souls into outside verse characters? and if the Bleach character can manipulate moleculer souls inside the body, how would that work with outside verse character who wouldn't have it?
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Gonna drop this cuz we won't agree and I am pretty sure we neither of us care enough to carry on (totally not dropping it cuz typing on mobile is already a pain).
I see where you are coming from but since we (thread in general) had been discussing baseline soul manip required for 1 soul and how the atom soul would work just prior, you can forgive me for not understanding what you meant.
Verse equal is meant to allow both sides to make full use of their abilities as they were in their respective canon while in a neutral setting so I don't think so as to give each atom a soul would raise their soul manip resistance (it really wouldn't matter at the end of the day since Bleach massively upscales from whatever the conclusion is but I am more so arguing for the principle). Verse equal would however grant the objects around the fighters souls as Fullbringers would be kinda shafted (in terms of maneuverability at least) if they didn't.
Manipulating the other person is a thing that doesn't really happen much in Bleach. Examples would be Aura who can manipulate on an atomic level but doesn't do so to her opponents (likely due to them resisting soul manip imo) or Quilge who has Sklaverei which only works on reishi as opposed to his opponent who would be made of kishi (spiritual and physical matter respectively). Most people in Bleach are made of reishi so this isn't an issue most of the time but it obviously wouldn't work in a vs debate unless they were a spirit. Even Letz Stil Ishida, who could shred apart the reishi surroundings passively (seems passive as it started once he entered the form and kept going) but Mayuri and Konjiki were unaffected (likely due to soul resist once more). The situation really never comes up as the guys with the best soul manip (Fullbringers and Quincy) never try to do this against their opponent. While the reason why they don't may be an in verse thing, it would simply be out of character for them to try it on the opponent (even if able) and in the event they do, they will be weirded out by the opponent only having a single soul that is not made up of a crap ton of smaller ones. Note that the people who can pull this off can see and sense individual atoms so they would find it weird anyway.
I see where you are coming from but since we (thread in general) had been discussing baseline soul manip required for 1 soul and how the atom soul would work just prior, you can forgive me for not understanding what you meant.
Verse equal is meant to allow both sides to make full use of their abilities as they were in their respective canon while in a neutral setting so I don't think so as to give each atom a soul would raise their soul manip resistance (it really wouldn't matter at the end of the day since Bleach massively upscales from whatever the conclusion is but I am more so arguing for the principle). Verse equal would however grant the objects around the fighters souls as Fullbringers would be kinda shafted (in terms of maneuverability at least) if they didn't.
Manipulating the other person is a thing that doesn't really happen much in Bleach. Examples would be Aura who can manipulate on an atomic level but doesn't do so to her opponents (likely due to them resisting soul manip imo) or Quilge who has Sklaverei which only works on reishi as opposed to his opponent who would be made of kishi (spiritual and physical matter respectively). Most people in Bleach are made of reishi so this isn't an issue most of the time but it obviously wouldn't work in a vs debate unless they were a spirit. Even Letz Stil Ishida, who could shred apart the reishi surroundings passively (seems passive as it started once he entered the form and kept going) but Mayuri and Konjiki were unaffected (likely due to soul resist once more). The situation really never comes up as the guys with the best soul manip (Fullbringers and Quincy) never try to do this against their opponent. While the reason why they don't may be an in verse thing, it would simply be out of character for them to try it on the opponent (even if able) and in the event they do, they will be weirded out by the opponent only having a single soul that is not made up of a crap ton of smaller ones. Note that the people who can pull this off can see and sense individual atoms so they would find it weird anyway.
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Been mobile for the past few days, totally understand.
Part of it was on my end for not explaining my position well.
>next 2 paragraphs
So in a match up, the non bleach character wouldn't have atom souls but the bleach character who specializes in manipulating the souls of atoms would still be able to use that ability on the non bleach character?
Part of it was on my end for not explaining my position well.
>next 2 paragraphs
So in a match up, the non bleach character wouldn't have atom souls but the bleach character who specializes in manipulating the souls of atoms would still be able to use that ability on the non bleach character?
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If by "still use that ability", you are referring to plain soul manip, then yes but they would only have the one soul like in Naruto or Nasu rather than the obscene amounts in Bleach. So while she would be able to turn herself to gas as she has a lot of souls and can separate them to move around attacks, she would not be able to with Naruto as he has just the one.
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I see, so what is your opinion regarding the amount of souls top and god tier bleach characters can manipulate?
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Boi .... I am the one who mathed out the lowballed 33 billion and caused this thread. Also you should have known I would post stuff like below. Can't wait for the responses ovo
The actual god tier, that being Prime Soul King made the entire cosmology so whatever the total number of atoms in multiple solar systems (call it 2 for a lowball) is the minimum I rate him at. Our SS is basically the sun so 1.2x10^57 x 2 = 2.4x10^57
The top tiers scale to Bankai Yama being able to manipulate the souls of a trillion guys he killed which include everything from Quincy to Shinigami to Hollows which all scale far above Tatsuki at the very least who resists Yammy's Gonzui which ripped hundreds of human souls which are comprised of the 7x10^27 for your average joe though Japanese are on average slightly smaller I think. If you really want what I use, slap this together with my lowball for Starrk's passive soul crush on the other thread up to the Adjuchas or Gillian tier and times a trillion as Yama fights a lot of guys, plenty of whom are stronger than Gillian (Gillian being complete trash) but Adjuchas are so far beyond Gillian it's not entirely fair to say he killed 1 trillion of them.
End numbers are roughly 7x10^39 for humans (nothing states they maintain their soul resist even when dead so it would just be the resistance granted by their mass), 41 for Hollows, 43 for the Gillian, 2.31x10^48 for Adjuchas (these three are obviously for if the souls do maintain the resistance and thus need more to manipulate).
That was Bankai Yama so the lesser god tiers obviously take a dump on that number. Seeing as Yhwach was gonna do what the Prime Soul King did but on a smaller scale of planets, we can use the god tier multipliers for this
1,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
I don't expect this to be accepted, mostly cuz I expect a lot of incredulity but this was certainly a fun thread.
The actual god tier, that being Prime Soul King made the entire cosmology so whatever the total number of atoms in multiple solar systems (call it 2 for a lowball) is the minimum I rate him at. Our SS is basically the sun so 1.2x10^57 x 2 = 2.4x10^57
The top tiers scale to Bankai Yama being able to manipulate the souls of a trillion guys he killed which include everything from Quincy to Shinigami to Hollows which all scale far above Tatsuki at the very least who resists Yammy's Gonzui which ripped hundreds of human souls which are comprised of the 7x10^27 for your average joe though Japanese are on average slightly smaller I think. If you really want what I use, slap this together with my lowball for Starrk's passive soul crush on the other thread up to the Adjuchas or Gillian tier and times a trillion as Yama fights a lot of guys, plenty of whom are stronger than Gillian (Gillian being complete trash) but Adjuchas are so far beyond Gillian it's not entirely fair to say he killed 1 trillion of them.
End numbers are roughly 7x10^39 for humans (nothing states they maintain their soul resist even when dead so it would just be the resistance granted by their mass), 41 for Hollows, 43 for the Gillian, 2.31x10^48 for Adjuchas (these three are obviously for if the souls do maintain the resistance and thus need more to manipulate).
That was Bankai Yama so the lesser god tiers obviously take a dump on that number. Seeing as Yhwach was gonna do what the Prime Soul King did but on a smaller scale of planets, we can use the god tier multipliers for this
- 3 Planets = Mimi < Almighty Yhwach < WSK
- SK Yhwach absorbed the other 2 so he is x9 planetary
- Hollow Merge Ichigo is comparable so he is x9 Bankai multiplier of x5 (we finished this thread but no clue if we applied it yet) x45
- Yhwach absorbed this so he gets x54 the atoms in a planet which is 1.3x10^50 based on a quick google search so lesser god tiers end number is is 7.02x10^51.
1,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
I don't expect this to be accepted, mostly cuz I expect a lot of incredulity but this was certainly a fun thread.
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1,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = one sexdecillion one hundred seventy quindecillion
of whatever you trying to do unite lol
of whatever you trying to do unite lol
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I'm pretty sure the wiki would implode if even 1/3 of that was accepted lmao.
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that is madness . imma liking it tho .
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If this was from a shitty VN it would be accepted lmao.
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Truth, granted the VN would probably just straight up say one sexdecillion one hundred seventy quindecillion souls.The Prince of Counters said:
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I mean... looks 100% legit to me
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@Die
Don't forget they'd also specify the souls to be conceptual and higher dimensional.
Don't forget they'd also specify the souls to be conceptual and higher dimensional.
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Well that one movie said there were infinite souls lol
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Not if I could help it.The Prince of Counters said:
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The Prince of Counters said:
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There are a few problems with saying that soul haxing someone is equivalent to haxing all their atoms
First off, literally only fullbringers have shown the ability to manipulate the souls of objects, it's even specifically referred to as their power
Secondly, the souls of objects are clearly different in significance and power than those of living things. The souls of objects are noted to be small, and the only thing noted about them is that they can help the person using them, if the person understands the soul. This is why a Fullbringer has to draw on the object's soul and use their own soul to bolster it, otherwise it does nothing due to the object's soul being small and not really having any power of it's own, especially not comparable to a person's soul.
First off, literally only fullbringers have shown the ability to manipulate the souls of objects, it's even specifically referred to as their power
Secondly, the souls of objects are clearly different in significance and power than those of living things. The souls of objects are noted to be small, and the only thing noted about them is that they can help the person using them, if the person understands the soul. This is why a Fullbringer has to draw on the object's soul and use their own soul to bolster it, otherwise it does nothing due to the object's soul being small and not really having any power of it's own, especially not comparable to a person's soul.
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@Paul
Fullbringers have the ability to soul hax inanimate objects as well as themselves as seen with Chad by amplifying the targets inherent reiryoku to bring about a greater result than the sum of both. That's their power. Not to affect inanimates with soul hax when Quincy perform atomic level soul manip on inanimate all the time with Ishida being able to see each individual atom that makes up his high speed vibration sword (which specifically weakens the bonds between particles of reishi so he can control it easier) let alone the particles that aren't moving.
I agree that souls of the living are greater than that of inanimates. That doesn't change the fact that the things that comprise both inanimates and living have their own souls which make up the person or objects soul. Aura herself proves that their souls are made up of smaller ones when she manipulates the souls (plural) of her cells to pull a logia. The weakest/smallest soul in the setting is the baseline for a soul as you can't have a soul but be less than baseline. It's already proven that living souls in Bleach are made up of all the souls of what constitutes them so they scale appropriately. The soul of an atom is incomparable to a living soul in Bleach specifically, not a living soul from any other verse that lacks similar soul hax scaling.
Fullbringers have the ability to soul hax inanimate objects as well as themselves as seen with Chad by amplifying the targets inherent reiryoku to bring about a greater result than the sum of both. That's their power. Not to affect inanimates with soul hax when Quincy perform atomic level soul manip on inanimate all the time with Ishida being able to see each individual atom that makes up his high speed vibration sword (which specifically weakens the bonds between particles of reishi so he can control it easier) let alone the particles that aren't moving.
I agree that souls of the living are greater than that of inanimates. That doesn't change the fact that the things that comprise both inanimates and living have their own souls which make up the person or objects soul. Aura herself proves that their souls are made up of smaller ones when she manipulates the souls (plural) of her cells to pull a logia. The weakest/smallest soul in the setting is the baseline for a soul as you can't have a soul but be less than baseline. It's already proven that living souls in Bleach are made up of all the souls of what constitutes them so they scale appropriately. The soul of an atom is incomparable to a living soul in Bleach specifically, not a living soul from any other verse that lacks similar soul hax scaling.
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