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If someone could redo the calc and account for resting time as Kuuichigo noted, then we could perhaps work with that. Because as the estimates are right now, they seem way too high.Antvasima said:
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Bleach Revisions: Seireitei Scaling
- Thread starter Piercer_of_Heaven
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- bleach
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A human walks 5km hour.That's a general scientific fact.10 days equal to 240 hours.To reach the opposite gate you should walk 20 days then.And this makes 480 hours.480 x 5 = 2400 km and this is half of Seiretei's circumference.And if we divide this to Pi we get radius of Seiretei and that is 764 kilometers and if we double this we get the diameter of Seiretei which makes 1528 kilometers.Antvasima said:
And according to the Fade to Black , Seiretei's diameter is 400 Spirit Miles. 1 Spirit Mile = 2.4 Miles and 400 x 2.4 = 960 Miles = 1545 Kilometers.
These two things give almost the same size for Seiretei.
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Where does the 1 spirit mile equalling 2.4 miles come from?
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It was in the manga.This Spirit Mile i'm talking about is Ri and 1 Ri = 2.44 Miles.
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So 1 spirit mile is 1 Ri? Then that's indeed 3.927 km.
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Yes it is 3,93 kilometers.I converted above Ri to Mile and then Mile to Kilometer.
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Well, that seems reliable then. Maybe you could ask our calc group members to redo the calculations based on the 10 days walking distance?
Also, my apologies if I am not very useful at the moment. I am very tired, distracted, and depressed from a bad turn of events outside of this wiki.
Also, my apologies if I am not very useful at the moment. I am very tired, distracted, and depressed from a bad turn of events outside of this wiki.
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No need to apologize. I too have been not as helpful as I could be due to real life shit and being busy with something else. Hell, I have some work related stuff open in another tab right now.Antvasima said:
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Are we sure that by 10 days walking they mean nonstop walking for 24 hours each day for the 10 days?
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Ichigo fought Urahara for 5 days and 5 nights with no rest, and can have his reiatsu being drained on a treadmile which he sa8d he could run on for another week. They have pretty high stamina.
Also about the seireitei: Yhwach compared it to a country when he said he would create his own using the seireitei
Also about the seireitei: Yhwach compared it to a country when he said he would create his own using the seireitei
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Using the walking statements for Las Noches results in ridiculously inflated results that put everyone and their mother at continents level.
You can't possibly be honest and think that's acceptable. And using the walking statement there results in Bleach being a series about Giants.
If the real size is demonstrably not as big as the walking statement Indicates, you shouldn't use it.
You can't possibly be honest and think that's acceptable. And using the walking statement there results in Bleach being a series about Giants.
If the real size is demonstrably not as big as the walking statement Indicates, you shouldn't use it.
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But don't use Divell's calcs. He wanks Bleach a lot, his calcs are super wonky and are all debunked, and he is considered a joke on the OBD due to his bleach wank.
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@Kuulchigo
"This is coming from a guy that wants to make shit so perfect that he went as far as to make sure the Japan live action Bleach movie follows the original or he won't even acknowledge it (also going as far as to stop the Hollywood Bleach live action because they kept changing shit). Even saying he disliked the 4th Bleach movie because he didn't get creative control. Even clashing with his editors because they changed stuff (although he couldn't do much about it and also how when the anime had changed some stuff from the manga he gets sick)."
That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with mathematics and scale? Considering the amount of stupid stuff and hyperbolic statements that Bleach have, I really doubt that Kubo would realize the implications of these walking statements.
"My point being is he won't just throw in a arbitrary number just for the sake of it and then half-ass the drawing. Also to add on to the fact he couldn't draw properly was that during the final arc Kubo had constantly been getting sick even having his physical condition deteriorated and his shoulders hurting. After getting an MRI it was revealed his shoulder tendons severed. So you can see how he wouldn't be able to draw it to scale and the fact that he just wanted it to end so he could rest."
Okay, and? He throws a random day number, and then NEVER does the drawn scale match the statement. Even in the Las Noches arc where he had no excuse of broken arms or whatever.
If we can mathematically debunk the statements using every single available image for scaling, then we shouldn't use it.
Pixel scaling is how we do things for every single Verse, and yet Bleach gets a free pass using nonsense statements because it wields higher results? That is the actual double standard.
"This is coming from a guy that wants to make shit so perfect that he went as far as to make sure the Japan live action Bleach movie follows the original or he won't even acknowledge it (also going as far as to stop the Hollywood Bleach live action because they kept changing shit). Even saying he disliked the 4th Bleach movie because he didn't get creative control. Even clashing with his editors because they changed stuff (although he couldn't do much about it and also how when the anime had changed some stuff from the manga he gets sick)."
That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with mathematics and scale? Considering the amount of stupid stuff and hyperbolic statements that Bleach have, I really doubt that Kubo would realize the implications of these walking statements.
"My point being is he won't just throw in a arbitrary number just for the sake of it and then half-ass the drawing. Also to add on to the fact he couldn't draw properly was that during the final arc Kubo had constantly been getting sick even having his physical condition deteriorated and his shoulders hurting. After getting an MRI it was revealed his shoulder tendons severed. So you can see how he wouldn't be able to draw it to scale and the fact that he just wanted it to end so he could rest."
Okay, and? He throws a random day number, and then NEVER does the drawn scale match the statement. Even in the Las Noches arc where he had no excuse of broken arms or whatever.
If we can mathematically debunk the statements using every single available image for scaling, then we shouldn't use it.
Pixel scaling is how we do things for every single Verse, and yet Bleach gets a free pass using nonsense statements because it wields higher results? That is the actual double standard.
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Yhwach's statement is a bit ambiguous. There are small countries and the resulting structure / city that he makes out of the former Royal Palace and Seireitei's buildings doesn't appear to be a large country.
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I'm more tolerant on the 10 day statement. What I don't accept is using the three day statement of Last Noches to wank virtually every Bleach character to Continent level.
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I don't see the problem matt. Ive seen more absurd calcs accepted like a 10 metre hole resulting in country level ap.
Also just because you cannot believe it, does not mean it isnt acceptable.
Also thae statements arent nonsense,Yoruichi has lived in the seireitei as long as anyone and Nel has been in las noches for years.
No offense but this should be left to people who are familiar with the series and not people with obvious bias against it
Also just because you cannot believe it, does not mean it isnt acceptable.
Also thae statements arent nonsense,Yoruichi has lived in the seireitei as long as anyone and Nel has been in las noches for years.
No offense but this should be left to people who are familiar with the series and not people with obvious bias against it
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It's not a matter of disbelief, Aizen. It's a matter of consistency.
If you.honestly believe that every Espada is continent level, despite they having no feats above city level, then you are wanking bleach.
Also, 10 meter hole wielding country level is certainly possible through sub-atomic destruction.
The burden of proof is in you to show that the statement is accurate and not nonsense, and that randomly upgrading people from Town level to Continent level is anything but wanking.
Also, it is fallacious to suddenly start claiming yourself to be a Bleak expert and myself a Bleach hater. I could easily invert the insult and say you are a wanker.
Please address my arguments and less personal attacks.
If you.honestly believe that every Espada is continent level, despite they having no feats above city level, then you are wanking bleach.
Also, 10 meter hole wielding country level is certainly possible through sub-atomic destruction.
The burden of proof is in you to show that the statement is accurate and not nonsense, and that randomly upgrading people from Town level to Continent level is anything but wanking.
Also, it is fallacious to suddenly start claiming yourself to be a Bleak expert and myself a Bleach hater. I could easily invert the insult and say you are a wanker.
Please address my arguments and less personal attacks.
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What happened to the AoE fallacy matt?
There is, as people who have read the series and have explained above, but you dont like bleach, and you failed to address unless you call "Omg I dont belieeevee it!" Addressing it.
Well I mean,you did go around call yhwach "Youwack". And are against anything bleach in every thread, so yeah. It's far from baseless, wouldnt you agree matthew?
There is, as people who have read the series and have explained above, but you dont like bleach, and you failed to address unless you call "Omg I dont belieeevee it!" Addressing it.
Well I mean,you did go around call yhwach "Youwack". And are against anything bleach in every thread, so yeah. It's far from baseless, wouldnt you agree matthew?
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That's not what AoE Fallacy means.
AoE Fallacy is picking a Planet level character and treating everytime his punches don't blow up a Planet as a low-end feat, rather than a matter of range.
It is another thing entirely to grab this same Planet level character, and use a random Galaxy level feat and argue him and everyone who scales to him, none of whom have Galaxy level feats, to that level.
This is what you are doing with Bleach.
You are abusing an argument because you want everyone in Bleach to be Continent level despite very few feats above Town level. That is ridiculous.
"There is, as people who have read the series and have explained above, but you dont like bleach, which you failed to address unless you call "Omg I dont belieeevee it!" Addressing it."
Wrong.
You may have read Bleach, but that doesn't:
The only thing that should matter is the solidity of the argument itself, not from who it comes from.
I am against Bleach-related upgrades because frankly a lot of them show that the people arguing for Bleach are often wanking, abusing statements and hyperboles, and wanting Bleach to be treated with double-standards from every other Verse.
You have yet to address how upgrading a whole verse of Town levels to Continent level is anything but ridiculous.
You have yet to answer why we should use statements if we can mathematically prove that they are wrong and we don't do that for any other Verse.
AoE Fallacy is picking a Planet level character and treating everytime his punches don't blow up a Planet as a low-end feat, rather than a matter of range.
It is another thing entirely to grab this same Planet level character, and use a random Galaxy level feat and argue him and everyone who scales to him, none of whom have Galaxy level feats, to that level.
This is what you are doing with Bleach.
You are abusing an argument because you want everyone in Bleach to be Continent level despite very few feats above Town level. That is ridiculous.
"There is, as people who have read the series and have explained above, but you dont like bleach, which you failed to address unless you call "Omg I dont belieeevee it!" Addressing it."
Wrong.
You may have read Bleach, but that doesn't:
- Mean your argument is sound
- Mean you are not abusing fallacies or wanking
- Mean you are correctly responding to my arguments.
The only thing that should matter is the solidity of the argument itself, not from who it comes from.
I am against Bleach-related upgrades because frankly a lot of them show that the people arguing for Bleach are often wanking, abusing statements and hyperboles, and wanting Bleach to be treated with double-standards from every other Verse.
You have yet to address how upgrading a whole verse of Town levels to Continent level is anything but ridiculous.
You have yet to answer why we should use statements if we can mathematically prove that they are wrong and we don't do that for any other Verse.
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Everybody please calm down. We are just trying to evaluate fictional character statistics here.
Anyway, if Kubo is bad with visual scaling, and Yhwach, Ichigo, and Aizen are 5-B, I don't find it that hard to believe that other captains could be 6-A.
Anyway, if Kubo is bad with visual scaling, and Yhwach, Ichigo, and Aizen are 5-B, I don't find it that hard to believe that other captains could be 6-A.
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It is absurd because there are no feats above Town level to them, Antvasima.
Let's say that in Naruto, Pain had a Continent level feat. That doesn't mean that the entire Akatsuki should be Country level just because they belong to the same group.
" if Kubo is bad with visual scaling"
This is frankly an argument that is abused. Literally every series ever is going to have inconsistent drawings from panel to panel, even those that are drawn by brilliant artists such as Yusuke Murata or Kentaro Miura.
That doesn't stop us from using pixel-scaling over statement whenever possible. Bleach should not be given special treatment because people want higher results.
Let's say that in Naruto, Pain had a Continent level feat. That doesn't mean that the entire Akatsuki should be Country level just because they belong to the same group.
" if Kubo is bad with visual scaling"
This is frankly an argument that is abused. Literally every series ever is going to have inconsistent drawings from panel to panel, even those that are drawn by brilliant artists such as Yusuke Murata or Kentaro Miura.
That doesn't stop us from using pixel-scaling over statement whenever possible. Bleach should not be given special treatment because people want higher results.
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^Bad analogy, compared to dbz, bleach treats it's somewhat higher ups not like complete fooder and actually give's them feat's for us to work with and such.
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"Its only a fallacy if it doesnt suit my own agenda", gotcha.
And actually if the scaling is accepted Ulquiorra would have two tier 6 feats.
Appeal to authority. Isnt that what you did when you said well obd doesn't accept it, so we shouldn't eother. But I suppose it wouldn't apply to you.
So you admit you're biased against the series and upgrades for no reason. Nice.
Its hardly ridiculous, theres calcs for lieutenants being town level+ who are utter garbage compared to captains.
Also we didn't agree on continent level, we still need the appraisal from calc staff on which end to use.
See that last part there is exactly what we are arguing is wrong via characters who have lived in the area for 100s of years. Theres also the points kuu made. A statement from these characters is kubos way of expressing how big he feels the seireitei is, something much easier to convey in words for him, than it is to draw.
And actually if the scaling is accepted Ulquiorra would have two tier 6 feats.
Appeal to authority. Isnt that what you did when you said well obd doesn't accept it, so we shouldn't eother. But I suppose it wouldn't apply to you.
So you admit you're biased against the series and upgrades for no reason. Nice.
Its hardly ridiculous, theres calcs for lieutenants being town level+ who are utter garbage compared to captains.
Also we didn't agree on continent level, we still need the appraisal from calc staff on which end to use.
See that last part there is exactly what we are arguing is wrong via characters who have lived in the area for 100s of years. Theres also the points kuu made. A statement from these characters is kubos way of expressing how big he feels the seireitei is, something much easier to convey in words for him, than it is to draw.
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You all need to calm down good lord....
Either way I agree with Matt here.
Either way I agree with Matt here.
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" "Its only a fallacy if it doesnt suit my own agenda", gotcha."
Please address my actual argument and don't use strawmans.
"Appeal to authority. Isnt that what you did when you said well obd doesn't accept it, so we shouldn't eother. But I suppose it wouldn't apply to you."
Wrong. The calculations failed to be approved by the calculators there and were thorn apart and shown how illogical they were. We shouldn't use them.
And even if I was, two wrongs don't make a right. You're basically saying that is fine for you to use fallacies because in your eyes others use it too.
"So you admit you're biased against the series and upgrades for no reason. Nice."
Not what I said. Yet another strawman. I am against things I consider to be wanking and overhyping.
"See that last part there is exactly what we are arguing is wrong via characters who have lived in the area for 100s of years. Theres also the points kuu made. A statement from these characters is kubos way of expressing how big he feels the seireitei is, something much easier to convey in wordsnfor uim, than it is to draw."
That doesn't debunk:
Please address my actual argument and don't use strawmans.
"Appeal to authority. Isnt that what you did when you said well obd doesn't accept it, so we shouldn't eother. But I suppose it wouldn't apply to you."
Wrong. The calculations failed to be approved by the calculators there and were thorn apart and shown how illogical they were. We shouldn't use them.
And even if I was, two wrongs don't make a right. You're basically saying that is fine for you to use fallacies because in your eyes others use it too.
"So you admit you're biased against the series and upgrades for no reason. Nice."
Not what I said. Yet another strawman. I am against things I consider to be wanking and overhyping.
"See that last part there is exactly what we are arguing is wrong via characters who have lived in the area for 100s of years. Theres also the points kuu made. A statement from these characters is kubos way of expressing how big he feels the seireitei is, something much easier to convey in wordsnfor uim, than it is to draw."
That doesn't debunk:
- The chance that the character is being hyperbolic
- The fact that is hard to quantify the speed of walking, how much one would walk per day, etc.
- The fact that visually, we can debunk the statement
- The fact that this is asking for special treatment for Bleach
- The fact that Kubo likely had no idea of the implications the statement meant.
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Well theres no point arguing with matthew since it is like talking to a brickwall and I have better things to do.
Agree to disagree it is
The majority of people, and the majority who understand and follow the series (Kuu and a few others) seem to be fine with it.
Agree to disagree it is
The majority of people, and the majority who understand and follow the series (Kuu and a few others) seem to be fine with it.
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What has been accepted and what is in the process of being looked at?
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So you are giving up on discussing?
"The majority of people, and the majority who understand and follow the series (Kuu and a few others) seem to be fine with it."
That is also appeal to authority considering I answered their posts, and even Piercer of Heaven who made the calcs agreed with not using the walking statements.
"The majority of people, and the majority who understand and follow the series (Kuu and a few others) seem to be fine with it."
That is also appeal to authority considering I answered their posts, and even Piercer of Heaven who made the calcs agreed with not using the walking statements.
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Eh, I do prefer the opinions of people who know the series more then anything , but that's just me
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I agree with Matthew on Las Noches but I think the seiretei calc is fine with the Walking statement because it's supported by Fade to Black.
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5-B durability Yhwach and 5-B Ichigo and those that scale.851500 said:
That other 5-B calc which backs up the God-Tiers being 5-B (Still needs to be evaluated by our Calc Group, tho).
Some other stuff.
The most rejected thing is Las Noches based on the 3 day statement.
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Basically me on this.ItalianGuy1234 said:
I'm more acceptable on Seiretei scaling but not Las Noches.
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Adult Toshiro, Gerlad, Bankai and Shikai Kenpachi, Post Royal Guard Training Ichigo and that's about it
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