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Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel)

@Sigurd; I said I was looking into alternatives, not that I'm going to design an entirely new scaling chain.

The better method however is simply to point the problems as they come up in this thread and let the existing scaling chain be adjusted and improved.
 
It was renji AND byakuya that took out base gerard .

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Bleach/0654-016.png


we see both senbonzakura and zabimaru on the first panel .

And then it's byakuya who "finish" base gerard.
 
I think the best thing to do in this case, then, is to start climbing from Shikai Renji and start doing the dimensioning.
 
Naeblis495 said:
It was renji AND byakuya that took out base gerard .
https://v217.**********.com/manga/Bleach/0654-016.png


we see both senbonzakura and zabimaru on the first panel .

And then it's byakuya who "finish" base gerard.
Click to expand...
That's still 50% Shikai Renji who was 100% sure to be able to take down Ressurected Gerard in a one on one.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Bleach/0647-011.png

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Bleach/0647-012.png
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
@Ant

The current conclusions are what the current OP has above (it's constantly updated based on discussions here).

However, Damage has issues with some of the speed scaling which the majority here have been arguing with him about.

Plus, as the comment above me is doing, some users are coming in with their additions or issues with the proposals.

So it might need more time for everything to be finished.
Click to expand...
Okay. Thanks. I will unsubscribe to this thread then. You can contact me later if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
Either renji was overestimating himself ,was just planning to gain time for the others to do their thing or Vollstanding Mask is stronger than we think .

imo , i just think that byakuya did far more damage than renji and carried the fight.
 
Naeblis495 said:
Either renji was overestimating himself ,was just planning to gain time for the others to do their thing or Vollstanding Mask is stronger than we think .
imo , i just think that byakuya did far more damage than renji and carried the fight.
Click to expand...
Wasn't Byakuya in Bankai?
 
Thats a feat for Gerard as it actually gives scaling to say he is above Mask who is at minimum x50 the basic Ritter.
 
By the way, I reread the Mask vs. Renji fight too, and I don't see anywhere where Full Power Mask blitzes Renji. It looks just like Renji stood still most of the fight tanking Mask's attacks then he went Bankai and instantly stomped Full Power Mask. Renji shows no signs of being overwhelmed in speed.

So I don't think that FTL Mask is an accurate rating.
 
When he uses the Lariat, we can see that Renji throws up a hasty block against it. This is nothing like his casualness with Jackie, 2nd Cheer or Star Punch Mask. This implies that Mask is either comparable or faster than him. Renji also doesn't block all of the punches that come his way more than he just keeps his guard in the same position to defend. If he was far faster than Mask, he could have just stopped all of them. I lean towards comparable as Sōō Zabimaru doesn't amp speed so it would be Renji being off guard from his mask's transformation that let him cross so easily, considering Sōō Renji was able to react to Mask right after and killed him when he was pissed off.
 
@Naeblis495; Renji shows no indication of wanting to dodge out of the way. He stood still and tanked everything else that Mask threw his way.
 
That's your interpretation .

Renji clearly noticed that this attack wasn't in the same power range as the others , showed by his "!" mark just before the attack .

Afterward he was in clear pain but still couldn't dodge or block all of the multiples following attacks . Mask have to be relative to renji for this to happen .
 
HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI.

HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI.

HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI.

HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI. HOSHI.

JoJo reference.
 
@Sigurd; that doesn't show that the attacks scale to Renji in speed. Rather that Renji is able to block the attacks. Nowhere is it shown that he is incapable of dodging the attacks by being too slow.

@Naeblis495; yes, the attacks were more powerful so Renji was pushed back. But I don't see how being powerful enough to push Renji back means they must also scale in speed.
 
Damage it honestly seems like you're reaching here, "Nowhere is it shown that he is incapable of dodging the attacks by being too slow", that's the most logical assumption, it's more logical than assuming Renji was just massively underestimating his opponent.
 
Even if he was under estimating the first lariat , there is no excuse for the following hits . Those hits are causing pain to him , the common sense would be that he would try to dodge them if he could .Even if he would want to just block them , we see that he can't.

He can't block or dodge them all and is forced in a basic defensive position to reduce as much damage as posible , showing that they are faster than him and cause damage to him.

Your really starting to grasp here Damage .
 
@Purgy; I disagree with that. I'm looking at the context of Renji's fight in as a whole; Renji never struggles against Mask in terms of speed. When Mask attacks he's only ever standing there and blocking until after he uses his Bankai where he swiftly stomps Mask.

Renji being pushed back is a result of the attacks being powerful, not too fast. After he is pushed back he is hit with sequential attacks over and over again. He clearly keeps trying to stand his ground since he holds onto the edge of a building and it breaks.

Anyway, the Mask issue is more of a side point. There are still the original problems I pointed out.
 
Another thing, when has somebody ever been able to physically overpower their opponent whilst being significantly slower than them in Bleach? I can't remember a single instance tbh. Speed and AP usually go hand in hand, you don't get somebody who's able to blitz their opponent and not be able to damage them and vice versa. Mask should scale to his speed, even if you don't want him to scale exactly to his speed, they should be relative.
 
If Renji could have easily got out of the barrage he'd simply just dodge it. It's very clear Mask is around the same area of speed to be able to do that. It's basic scaling 101.

Or do yo you just think Renji just loves getting pounded by a barrage of fist.
 
Seeing as Renji was completely unharmed by any of his attacks, I don't think it's unreasonable that he was content to just tank the attacks and there is no reason to assume he was incapable of dodging it.
 
@Sekkonds; because neither of them are FTL I assume.
 
@TOAAPRESENCE1; seeing as the thread is mostly filled with Bleach supporters, this shouldn't be surprising.
 
Damage3245 said:
Seeing as Renji was completely unharmed by any of his attacks, I don't think it's unreasonable that he was content to just tank the attacks and there is no reason to assume he was incapable of dodging it.
Click to expand...
Yet you assume that he can dodge them even when he didn't .

We use what actually happen , you use assumptions .
 
Damage3245 said:
@TOAAPRESENCE1; seeing as the thread is mostly filled with Bleach supporters, this shouldn't be surprising.
Click to expand...
Are you implying we're biased?
 
To be honest damage does have some solid points "i disagree with him on mask thing" but it's better if this takes time than the profiles become inaccurate
 
@Naeblis495; I didn't say he could dodge them, or that he wanted to dodge them.

I'm just saying that the feats don't support Mask blitzing Renji which is currently what is written in the OP.

I am also using what actually happens, not assumptions.
 
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