Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel)

[Damage3245]

Are you implying we're biased?

No? I'm just saying that if the thread is mostly populated by people who are in favor of the upgrades, then of course I'm going to be the only one appearing to disagree with the majority.

I'm also the only staff member to have responded so far unless I'm mistaken.

@Sigurd; my point is that there is no indication that Renji was pressured by speed which is the rating we're discussing.

 

[Purgy]

I didn't even realize Mask's justification was him blitzing Renji tbh, I disagree with that. I thought your argument was that Mask is noticeably slower than Renji.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

And your point is incorrect as told to you by like 3 people. Don't be difficult. He clearly pressured him there with his barrage of attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; three people having a different interpretation doesn't mean it is necessarily more correct.

The best I could see being granted is to say that he is At least Sub-Rel, possibly FTL in that form, since there isn't an explicit indication that his speed was more than Renji could handle.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You don't need something explicit, just some critical thinking skills. For him to pressure Renji like that he'd need to be around the same area of speed. Again scaling 101.

He also reacted to Renji's 1st attack in Bankai, but it didn't matter since Renji is overwhelmingly more powerful than he is so he just broke his arm and tossed him.

 

[Naeblis495]

he will be FTL anyways because he could fought with renji . If the wording of the justification is the only problem that can easily be changed.

Mask could land multiples attacks against a FTL fighter , those are the facts .Everything else is baseless assumptions .

 

[Damage3245]

@Naeblis495; that kind of basic approach to scaling completely ignores context.

"X fought Y. Therefore X scales."

That's the kind of utter nonsense I want to avoid in this scaling thread in order to prevent mistakes.

I am once again out of time tonight, so I will pick this back up in the morning.

I suggest we try USklaverei's earlier suggestion and see how that affects the scaling and what potential problems may arise from it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That's basic scaling Damage, if you have a problem with it that's a personal problem.

X fought Y and pressured Y therefore X is in still in the same realm of speed as Y.

It's not nonsense it's just you being incredibly difficult and trying to nitpick every minute detail if it doesn't align with your views exclusively.

 

[Naeblis495]

it's a method that require no assumptions or interpretations. It can't be twisted.

Only cold raw facts .

 

[Damage3245]

@Naeblis495; I'll agree to disagree with you on that point.

 

[Naeblis495]

Alright

 

[AppleLord]

If Mask wasn't FTL fighter Renji would have "blitz GG" like every other comment posted on a vs battle thread when speed isn't equalized.

 

[Aernasilver]

Mask not scaling is asinine. Before Mask's 2nd powerup Renji effortlessly blocked and dodged his attacks, but after the the 2nd powerup he was getting pressured and couldn't do anything against it.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There is literally a panel of Renji trying to push back against Mask's Lariats while trying to grip the debris of a building, but it's so overwhelming that he's pushed back further.

Mask even hit him with his Star Blast when Renji was still being hit by the lariats.

Why would he not scale?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Does Voltstanding get any multiplier or it's a case by case as well ?

 

[Jo-Smooth]

I mean we can say that they're comparable at best. You can be faster than someone and still get hit by them. In most fights, most characters aren't exact equals in speed. I don't think we can call Mask's attacks a blitz per say but scaling to Renji makes sense

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Does Voltstanding get any multiplier or it's a case by case as well ?

I think we agreed to a x5

 

[USklaverei]

I think most people agree with that, but we're going to be stuck in this until we get tired

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Anything else of relevance that should be discussed ?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Anything else of relevance that should be discussed ?

Not really the only problem damage had was that and i dont think he will let it go but besides him i dont think anyone other than him have a problem.

 

[Zoro21043]

transcended characters are getting multi continental ? if so isnt yama considered transcended as in his bankai the way haschwalth spoke was as if he couldnt sense his reiatsu , as he said its impossible for him to see flames at that temperature and then he assumed its yamas reiatsu

and if yama gets updgraded so should ichibei as iirc it was stated squad 0 is stronger than the whole gotei 13

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

transcended characters are getting multi continental ? if so isnt yama considered transcended as in his bankai the way haschwalth spoke was as if he couldnt sense his reiatsu , as he said its impossible for him to see flames at that temperature and then he assumed its yamas reiatsu
and if yama gets updgraded so should ichibei as iirc it was stated squad 0 is stronger than the whole gotei 13

Aizen and ichigo at that point were stronger than both hollows and shinigami which kinda seems to include yama as aizen knew him

 

[Naeblis495]

don't think we give ratings just because of "trancendence"

 

[Zoro21043]

for dangai it says

Multi-Continent level (As a Transcendent being, Ichigo is above a Resurrección and Gentei Kaijou released Hikone and CFYOW base Kenpachi.

 

[Zoro21043]

transcended characters are getting multi continental ? if so isnt yama considered transcended as in his bankai the way haschwalth spoke was as if he couldnt sense his reiatsu , as he said its impossible for him to see flames at that temperature and then he assumed its yamas reiatsu
and if yama gets updgraded so should ichibei as iirc it was stated squad 0 is stronger than the whole gotei 13

Aizen and ichigo at that point were stronger than both hollows and shinigami which kinda seems to include yama as aizen knew him

yup but if they got their rating based on transcended then it can apply to yama

 

[Aernasilver]

Yama is not a transcendent.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Mostly because at the time it was kinda relevant ? Like Ichigo and Aizen were just so much above the likes of even Yamamoto that the term transcendent worked. Like they broke the boundaries, they kept evolving. All that crazy mumbo jumbo

 

[Zoro21043]

Yama is not a transcendent.

you took what haschwalth said into consideration?

if so nvm

 

[Purgy]

Jugram didn't say he couldn't sense his Reiatsu, also nobody has ever become transcendent from using Shikai/Bankai and there's no evidence it even works like that.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Kinda sucks all these ratings only come from multipliers... it'd be great if there were some calcs to make these ratings a lot more legitemate

Like I'm happy they're so high, I just wish there were some more calcs

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Kinda sucks all these ratings only come from multipliers... it'd be great if there were some calcs to make these ratings a lot more legitemate
Like I'm happy they're so high, I just wish there were some more calcs

There are some more calcs......in oblivion that is i mean they started but never finnished and were left on the wind.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's understandable, at least High 6-A is back

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

And because this is the point where Kubo began to go into less detailing, aka White Space, Black Space

 

[Zoro21043]

it says yhwach is continental+ for being far higher than all sternritters does that include their released forms too? Or just their base

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There's 7-A and High 7-A calcs.

Two High 6-C calcs.

Two 6-B calcs.

One 6-A calc.

Low 5-B calc.

It's reasonable.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not complaining, I just didn't know there were that many calcs and thought it was all based on multipliers, I am glad their far stronger than their previous ratings, I really like Bleach

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

it says yhwach is continental+ for being far higher than all sternritters does that include their released forms too? Or just their base

Yea, not even mentioning they have all those forms because he gave them to them

 

[Purgy]

Besides, there are characters on this wiki who's entire rating's almost completely come from multipliers, it would be pretty unfair to just suddenly have an issue with multipliers just because it's a Bleach thread. (Not saying you were specifically, but there were a couple complaints earlier in the thread regarding it)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm not against ratings being completely decided by multipliers, just with long chains of them, it's nice to have a calc that helps justify such ratings

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using multipliers as long as they're consistent, Ikki above being a great example of consistent multipliers.