Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel)

[HereComesBigBoi]

renji dodeg egeneric energy beams not a beam of photon bruh it not a real light source this is magic soul attak


consistncy matter becuz u get outler if n1 cloose to this feat and no even yhwach has close to a ftl so cinoncisstent to ghde stofy

 

[Damage3245]

2) We don't assume by default that he is faster than them in a later arc. If you have evidence supporting it, please post it.

3) What is the relevance of this? What links those earlier statements to Mature Bankai Toshiro or Post-Royal Guard Training Byakuya?

4) Shunsui wasn't FTL in the SS Arc. And I've pointed out why the feat in the TWYBW Arc is flawed.

And she has no evidence to scale to Lille at all.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

renji dodeg egeneric energy beams not a beam of photon bruh it not a real light source this is magic soul attak


consistncy matter becuz u get outler if n1 cloose to this feat and no even yhwach has close to a ftl so cinoncisstent to ghde stofy

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Renji_intercepting_beam_of_light

Go make a CTR if you dissagree

 

[HereComesBigBoi]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Renji_intercepting_beam_of_light

Go make a CTR if you dissagree

what proves of this ia a lightspeed attack> ths nowhre close to ne feet by any othr much stronger characters how is dis consisnt in h story i dont thin k it s

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; a Lieutenant that has gone through training with the Royal Guard. Very different.
And consistency is a pretty important part of the wiki I'd say, in general. Or at least it should be.

What? I didn't mention Nanao once, he pretty much said a Leiutenant can't be faster than Light, which is factually wrong. It should be, but if it was half the verses on the Wiki would need a serious serious downgrade, if that came about just because of a Bleach CRT then you'd have to ask yourself, are you just arguing at this point because you don't want Bleach to be FTL/Large Planetary or because you want the Wiki in general to be more consistent?

 

[Purgy]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Renji_intercepting_beam_of_light

Go make a CTR if you dissagree

what proves of this ia a lightspeed attack> ths nowhre close to ne feet by any othr much stronger characters how is dis consisnt in h story i dont thin k it s

This isn't the right thread to argue wether it should be Lightspeed, it was accepted as such and if you think differently you need to make your own thread, this is moreso for scaling characters from those feats.

 

[Damage3245]

> It should be, but if it was half the verses on the Wiki would need a serious serious downgrade, if that came about just because of a Bleach CRT then you'd have to ask yourself, are you just arguing at this point because you don't want Bleach to be FTL/Large Planetary or because you want the Wiki in general to be more consistent?

I do want the wiki to be more consistent. Wherever there are issues, they should be ideally fixed instead of saying "Well, other verses get away with it so we should to."

I don't see where I mentioned that I didn't want Bleach to be FTL or Large Planetary.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is still not enough supporting evidence to rate Nanao as being FTL.

Yeah there is.

- The only feat listed is this one, which is a pretty flawed off-screen since

A) We don't know when she actually started moving.

Why does this matter? Shunsui said she kept up.

B) We don't know when she actually arrived.

Dude this isn't a calc stop being so damn nitpicky dude.

C) We don't know how fast Shunsui actually was travelling to get to Lille Barro's position.

Default assumption is his actual speed, you do realize he was trying not to get his brains blown out right?

D) This is at best Travel Speed, not Combat Speed, for both of them.

This is stupid, Shunpo is used for all movement what are you even saying?

E) As it's been mentioned before Nanao is pretty much a non-combatant and has no significant speed feats. As an Assistant Captain, there needs to be more evidence of her being on par with the likes of the Commander of the Gotei 13.

Her speed feat is keeping up with Shunsui who even praised her. How the hell are you gonna ask for more evidence when the commander himself says she can keep up -.-. He spent hundreds of years with her or something and you're questioning his analysis???

 

[Purgy]

> It should be, but if it was half the verses on the Wiki would need a serious serious downgrade, if that came about just because of a Bleach CRT then you'd have to ask yourself, are you just arguing at this point because you don't want Bleach to be FTL/Large Planetary or because you want the Wiki in general to be more consistent?
I do want the wiki to be more consistent. Wherever there are issues, they should be ideally fixed instead of saying "Well, other verses get away with it so we should to."

I don't see where I mentioned that I didn't want Bleach to be FTL or Large Planetary.

I didn't say you did, I said if you're just using the consistency argument in this Bleach thread in particular instead of advocating for more consistency on the Wiki as a whole then you have to ask yourself if you're really interested in consistency or just not wanting to upgrade Bleach to those points. Regardless, I'm all about fairness, if consistency isn't a counter argument for other verses CRT's, why should it be here? And again, you're looking at pretty much an entire Wiki revision if you want consistency, something that will probably never happen.

 

[Aernasilver]

1) Discussed about this and I've removed that.

2) How does he not? He trained for 17 months. Is one of the faster Captains. To say those 2 are faster than him is asinine.

3) Because she is hailed as one of the fastest?

4) All of those questioning you have about it is irrelevant. Shunsui stated that she kept up with him. Why the hell would he even say that if she didn't. Also Shunpo is basically for everything speed related.

At this point you're just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

 

[HereComesBigBoi]

evn ignoring th obvs isues wt the ftl featt i thnk damage wud be more in the correct as he makes the most senses

 

[Damage3245]

@Aernasilver + Sigurd; prove that she was actually moving at FTL speeds, making her, a non-fighting Lieutenant to be faster than some Captains of the Gotei 13.

Keeping up with Shunsui off-screen is a meaningless feat, and more evidence is required.

@Aernasilver; being "hailed as one of the fastest" means absolutely nothing unless you can prove that some way relates to their speed in those forms.

@Purgy; if you have found problems with other verses, than raise a CRT for them.

 

[Purgy]

@Aernasilver + Sigurd; prove that she was actually moving at FTL speeds, making her, a non-fighting Lieutenant to be faster than some Captains of the Gotei 13.
Keeping up with Shunsui off-screen is a meaningless feat, and more evidence is required.

@Aernasilver; being "hailed as one of the fastest" means absolutely nothing unless you can prove that some way relates to their speed in those forms.

@Purgy; if you have found problems with other verses, than raise a CRT for them.

Easier said than done, as if I'm just going to go ahead and make a CRT for half of Nintendo or half of the Cartoon characters on this wiki, that's like asking for misery and it would take a lifetime for one person to do, the damage is already done and too many profiles would need revising, it's easier to just roll with what we've already got and continue with it. And again, consistency has rarely been a thing here and neither me nor you is going to change that, I mean you yourself already acknowledged that the wiki needs more consistency.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Again by default we assume they were, you need to prove they're not moving at those speeds when one character scales to those speeds already. This isn't a calc. If you have problem with this go through every single verse on wiki and question every scaling asking "do we know how fast they are" lets see how far that gets you.

I seriously don't think you have a grasp on how scaling works and your arguments are incredibly fallacious. This is textbook argument from ignorance.

" This is when someone states that since there is insufficient evidence of something, it cannot possibly be true."

 

[Damage3245]

This is relevant:

> NOTE: This fallacy is often invoked improperly, because there's a big difference between stating "There is no evidence of A, so A cannot possibly be true" (which would be a fallacy) and "There is no evidence of A, so we cannot assume A to be true" (which is correct logic).

There isn't enough supporting evidence for Nanao, a Vice Captain, to be rated as FTL making her superior to several other Captains.

Her following Shunsui does not make her FTL.

For example, let's say she arrived on the scene a fraction of a second after him (which is entirely possible since as I stated above we don't see when she arrives). At those speeds across such a smaller distance being a fraction of a second later than him could make her several times slower than Shunsui, yet still able to "keep up with him" since she arrived closely behind him.

 

[Purgy]

Is this thread only 500 messages long? A new one will need to be made soon if so.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, threads have a limit of 500 posts and we only have about 40 to go.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

For someone to be keeping up they have to be relative in speed/pace, not slowly lagging behind the other. Her keeping up with Shunsui as stated by his own words (which is evidence) > your headcanon about distance, speed, and positioning.

 

[The_Causality]

For example, let's say she arrived on the scene a fraction of a second after him (which is entirely possible since as I stated above we don't see when she arrives). At those speeds across such a smaller distance being a fraction of a second later than him could make her several times slower than Shunsui, yet still able to "keep up with him" since she arrived closely behind him.

Not really

If what you say is correct, Nanao shouldn't even be able to follow where shisui go nor even react to his movement, several time slower make the difference is their speed drastic, and to slove this problem, requiere way more assumption than the basic "she somehow scale to his speed because she is faster enough" no mention that he state this.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; her keeping up with Shunsui is not an FTL feat without additional evidence.

I'm firmly against updating her, a mere Vice Captain, to be FTL.

@The Causality; that only requires perception speed at best.

More evidence is required to show that Nanao can move and fight at FTL speeds.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Be against it if you want, it doesn't matter. No one agrees with you at all.

" I'm firmly against updating her, a mere Vice Captain, to be FTL."

This isn't even an argument lmao.

 

[Damage3245]

Be against it if you want, it doesn't matter. No one agrees with you at all.

The reason you're unable to provide additional evidence for her being FTL is because the evidence doesn't exist.

Without sufficient evidence, that kind of massive upgrade won't be allowed.

 

[Purgy]

So umm... What do we do now? Damage is against it, so do we just move onto other issues with the thread and come back to this or what?

 

[Aernasilver]

Shunsui stating it is more than enough.

All you have against it is your own head canon.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Pretty much what Aerna said.

Shunsui words who's been with her since birth > your headcanon about distance, speed, and positioning. Besides she already scaled before this CRT so moot point.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; you adjust the scaling chain to something more reasonable and with solid evidence.

Half of the scaling chain is just saying that "X should be faster than Y" without reasons or evidence.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

"I'm firmly against updating her, a mere Vice Captain, to be FTL." this just obviously sound like "i dont like xyz so i dont want them to be updated" like for real?

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; you adjust the scaling chain to something more reasonable and with solid evidence.
Half of the scaling chain is just saying that "X should be faster than Y" without reasons or evidence.

I don't have control over the scaling chain, I'm just giving my opinion like you, however unlike you most of what I read I'm fine with. I meant, since neither side is going to back down, should we just move on instead of going in circles here and come back later?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Blatant lie lol, anyone reading the speed scaling can see there are justifications for most of them outside of obvious superiority.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Like i said before i am fine with all of the updates.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; these issues around Nanao and Omaeda form the basis for most of the scaling chain.

The scaling is trying to be too relaxed to say that Vice Captains like those two are fast enough to keep up with the supposedly fastest Shinigami in the Gotei 13, and the Commander of the Gotei 13, but also that every other Captain is by default faster than both of those Vice Captains, so they all scale to the fastest Captain as well.

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; these issues around Nanao and Omaeda form the basis for most of the scaling chain.
The scaling is trying to be too relaxed to say that Vice Captains like those two are fast enough to keep up with the supposedly fastest Shinigami in the Gotei 13, and the Commander of the Gotei 13, but also that every other Captain is by default faster than both of those Vice Captains, so they all scale to the fastest Captain as well.

So your argument is about consistency? You're saying it doesn't make sense for a Lieutenant to be as fast or relative to the Captain Commander and therefore none of the Captains should scale?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

@Purgy; these issues around Nanao and Omaeda form the basis for most of the scaling chain.
The scaling is trying to be too relaxed to say that Vice Captains like those two are fast enough to keep up with the supposedly fastest Shinigami in the Gotei 13, and the Commander of the Gotei 13, but also that every other Captain is by default faster than both of those Vice Captains, so they all scale to the fastest Captain as well.

So your argument is about consistency? You're saying it doesn't make sense for a Lieutenant to be as fast or relative to the Captain Commander and therefore none of the Captains should scale?

Or maybe "I'm firmly against updating her, a mere Vice Captain, to be FTL." is this simple

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Not everyone scales to the same thing obviously, you do realize some people scaling unquantifiably higher and lower right? like most scaling chains. That's the point of being comparable to someone in something. It doesn't mean you're exactly the same.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; I'm saying there isn't sufficient evidence to be scaling her to FTL, and less so for trying to make every other Captain FTL by virtue of just saying Captains > Vice Captains.

It's a contradictory logic being put forward to say "There is no way that a Captain could possibly be slower than a Vice Captain" but also say "Well, there is absolutely no problem with this non-fighting Vice Captain to be equal in speed to the Captain Commander."

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Except the Captain Commander clearly states she is. And Omaeda having a feat of his own.

Hisagi literally scales to FTL in the novel as well, what are you saying.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; the only thing he says is that she's outdone herself and she managed to keep up with him. That's extremely weak evidence for FTL speed.

For starters the Shinigami clearly don't have FTL travel speed since they spent a while running through the Quincy city.

If they were travelling at FTL speeds than the Quincy city would be millions of kilometers across, if not more.

So the most important thing first is to prove that both she and Shunsui travelled at FTL speeds.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

.................................Alright this is too much gonna come later

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Sigurd; the only thing he says is that she's outdone herself and she managed to keep up with him. That's extremely weak evidence for FTL speed.
For starters the Shinigami clearly don't have FTL travel speed since they spent a while running through the Quincy city.

If they were travelling at FTL speeds than the Quincy city would be millions of kilometers across, if not more.

So the most important thing first is to proof that both she and Shunsui travelled at FTL speeds.

This is not even a real argument, we should downgrade MFTL+ Hit for taking time to go across a stage. Or Dyspo for hearing sound whilst moving MFTL. Or any character really for even speaking.

 

[Purgy]

Sigurd has a point. Also wouldn't Renji's calc apply to both Travel and Reaction speed? It should if I interpreted him covering more distance than the attack did.