Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel)

[Aernasilver]

lol you did not just use that as an argument, Damage. I guess you should start making a site wide revision with that logic.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

According to Damage this planet isn't earth sized and has a galactic distance between the cities.

 

[Damage3245]

@Aenasilver; there's a reason why the Speed page makes distinction between Combat Speed and Travel Speed.

@Purgy; sure, but if we focused purely on scaling and ignore the context of the series, we could easily deduce that Yhwach's palace is millions or billions of kilometers across. But we don't. Because we have to acknowledge that the characters aren't travelling as quickly as we think they should be able to.

@Sigurd; we make exceptions for "Talking is a Free Action". But that's only in situations where we have to.

And I find that Dragon Ball example amusing. Here you are now arguing that statements aren't important compared to powerscaling - when your whole argument for Nanao is dependent on a statement.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Thank you for ignoring my point completely.

 

[Aernasilver]

And I've already told you that Shunpo gives you both.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

" And I find that Dragon Ball example amusing. Here you are now arguing that statements aren't important compared to powerscaling - when your whole argument for Nanao is dependent on a statement."

Citaton for when I said that? my point is your logic is illogical and doesn't align with the standards. I can't even name 3 profiles with travel speed/ combat speed unless explict. You should try looking at the profiles.

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

just a friendly reminder,that this thread has almost 500 posts

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It's gonna happend, nothing we can do bout that.

 

[Damage3245]

I recommend posting the new thread now and I'll close this one.

 

[AppleLord]

@Purgy; I'd say it is the opposite. It requires less assumptions and is more logical that Renji simply allowed himself to be hit.

He was being pressured by the power behind the attacks, but there is no reason to assume that he was being pressured by the speed which is why the highest I believe Mask's rating to be is At least Sub-Rel, possibly FTL.

Saying that Renji would have logically dodged the attacks before they could hit him is like saying Renji would logically have activated his Bankai at the start of the fight and win much sooner. Evidently the fights don't operate on 100% logic.

This is ain't an argument.

A. Saying Renji didn't dodged his attacks doesn't prove he decided to not do so.

B. Renji no been able to dodged proves that Mask got a speed power boost compared to when Mask was actually getting blitz at the start.

C. If Renji had dodged like you said that would prove that Mask was not FTL.

Stop using a false premise to feed a fallacy.

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; the exact thing you're arguing for is just a possibility.

A) Hence why I acknowledged that Mask could possibly scale, but that's it.

B) There isn't evidence that Renji was unable to dodge. Mask was faster than his previous state, yes, but not proven to be equal to Renji.

C) Yes? But my argument wasn't "Renji dodged his attacks so Mask isn't FTL".

 

[The_Causality]

For starters the Shinigami clearly don't have FTL travel speed since they spent a while running through the Quincy city.

If they were travelling at FTL speeds than the Quincy city would be millions of kilometers across, if not more.

This logic can't by applied in all of the existing verse, it make things rather as contradictory as ever, you can't apply this logic in a verse that don't even concider the notion of "speed needed to reache a distance in x second" (i don't say the verses don't concider them MSH+ or whatever speed, but that a basic way of writing since nobody aknowledge this logic in a media), a few exemples:

Pegasus Seiya make literally 12 hours to cross a mountain to save someone (even if he fought many Gold Saints) but you can't say his travelling spend 10E-8 second and his figh 3 hours or he isn't at full speed due to him moving at worst at the speed of light

Majin Buu crossing a part of the earth at full speed took an entire discussion between Goku and Vegeta despite him being FTL+

Shido Itsuka took some time to reach the battlefield to fight Mio (which is in the same city) despite the fact that he was Relativistic+

Sometime, the storytelling took more importance than how the coherence due to their stats are, that like when Characters don't blow up planets with theirs attacks due to them being way above Planetary or when characters speak during they fight, we don't say "they don't surpass the speed of sound because they can interact" you get the point?

 

[Damage3245]

@The Causality; Majin Buu can easily have FTL+ combat speed, but I don't see any reason why his casual flight speed couldn't have been slow enough to let Vegeta and Goku speak briefly.

As for the rest, I don't have enough knowledge about those verses.

And I have already acknowledged that exceptions exist such as the "Talking is a free action" trope.

 

[The_Causality]

@The Causality; Majin Buu can easily have FTL+ combat speed, but I don't see any reason why his casual flight speed couldn't have been slow enough to let Vegeta and Goku speak briefly.
As for the rest, I don't have enough knowledge about those verses.

And I have already acknowledged that exceptions exist such as the "Talking is a free action" trope.

"Slow enough" when he clearly don't want him to fuse with Vegeta, he didn't really relaxed tho but if you want another exemple, when Gotenks make almost 30 Minute to travel around the earth like 6 times same things, every action of charaters couldn't be as consistent as our profile say/what we could think.

Good, now the "exception as talking in free action" isn't really an exception, exemple like that exist a lot and don't need to get concidered, the same thing apply here for your exemple above.

 

[Damage3245]

@The Causality; doesn't Gotenks taking several minutes to fly around the Earth a few times strongly contradict the idea of FTL+ flight speed?

 

[The_Causality]

Depend of the number of exidence and counter-evidence, one action can't be applied to discredit a lot of proof backed up by feats from characters way slower than you.

As i've already said, every actions of characters from a media cannot be as consistent as our profile say.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I think we can agree on that point at least.

The new thread will have to be made in a couple of posts anyway. So I'll just say that the main focus of the next thread will be tackling the scaling that isn't supported by any evidence at all first, then moving onto the other questionable pieces of scaling once those issues have been resolved.

 

[AppleLord]

"Slow enough" when he clearly don't want him to fuse with Vegeta, he didn't really relaxed tho but if you want another exemple, when Gotenks make almost 30 Minute to travel around the earth like 6 times same things, every action of charaters couldn't be as consistent as our profile say/what we could think.

Good, now the "exception as talking in free action" isn't really an exception, exemple like that exist a lot and don't need to get concidered, the same thing apply here for your exemple above.

Seireitei can be a pocket dimension like any other pocket dimension in the series. Even Urahara's basement has an artificial sun and desert. Hisagi mentioned that there are CITIES inside Seireitei and it was stated that characters haven't seen each other in years before the first Captain reunion when the reioka invasion happened.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; the exact thing you're arguing for is just a possibility.

A) Hence why I acknowledged that Mask could possibly scale, but that's it.

B) There isn't evidence that Renji was unable to dodge. Mask was faster than his previous state, yes, but not proven to be equal to Renji.

C) Yes? But my argument wasn't "Renji dodged his attacks so Mask isn't FTL".

Your entire argument relied on Renji not dodging Mask attacks if he had done that Mask wouldn't scale at all. Your argument is a fallacy on a false premise.

 

[Sekkonds.]

It's not and we need a new thread cause this thread is done Edit https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4168907